I am so confused and need a place for perspective. Here goes:
My H left our MH almost 3 mos ago following an argument about unhappiness he was sensing from me and my confession of things I was feeling.
We had been recovering from a PA he had a year prior and during that time, I became pregnant. We had not been on the same page as far as family planning, though I was supposed to be on a birth control pill, so the pregnancy was surprising to the both of us though not an unwelcome one by me. We have always had trouble discussing future plans and life goals, so children was always something we felt we'd "deal with when we got there" and might be a surprise if the time ever came for us.
While we were initially figuring out how to move beyond the A, our social circle changed to include mutual friends and we became heavier partiers/drinkers, though we did this together so it seemed a positive change. My H had confessed to possible sex addiction during the revelation of the A and I blew him off at the time as it felt like a cop out for lots of bad behavior over lots of years. I became more convinced as I thought about our sexual relationship over the years and his increasing need for more intensity and adventure. He veiled his desires with a vulnerable need "to be honest" and "begin really sharing things with each other" but in doing so, began to push for a threesome...I turned down the idea. He said it was disprespectful that I wouldn't entertain his fantasies and that it was very hard for him to share these with me. He has a history of sharing fantasies with me, and whether I like them or not, they typically come to fruition...I wasn't prepared for this particular one to manifest. Eventually it did, and we began having threesomes with a lesbian friend of ours. I had mixed feelings about this as I was beginning to feel a connection to her and show him less attention and he immediately noticed, though I suspect I was only feeling this way because the relationship between he and I was so dysfunctional at the time. Regardless, we were having wild times and I felt like the train was coming off the rails,but I wasn't sure how to stop it as I felt like I wasn't being heard anymore.
The partying and sexual dynamic changed when I got pregnant and I was no longer able to participate in the things my husband was doing anymore which became incredibly lonely. He would have episodes of presence and absence and his free moments were filling with time on Youtube or Snapchatting new friends. He replaced his motorcycle with a more expensive one, stayed later at work, and became closer friends with an older woman who became his confidant in hard times. He felt that the pregnancy was laid on him against his control and that my irresponsibility with taking my pill had left his life in a place he didn't intend on so quickly so, this "friend" seemed to understand all of this and gave him an ear to bend. I had my suspicions throughout the pregnancy that there was something going on I wouldn't appreciate, but in that we had just been through an A the previous year and he had a history of this kind of behavior, I did the opposite of what you'd expect and decided to turn a blind eye to it and put MORE trust in him as I didn't want to overreact. I had my own history of being hypervigilant and scouring through his phone and social medias, and I felt that I was being respectful and even allowing him room to breathe if I backed off and let him be. I was beginning to get disheartened though because I would attempt to plan trips and wholesome activities so that we could reconnect but they were usually dismissed and met with some annoyance. I felt disrespected and burdensome on my end when I would ask for more of his attention, and we began to grow further and further apart.
When our D was born, H was very hands on in the initial weeks but the participation dwindled and I began responding to most of her needs. After the argument about my unhappiness I went in "self improvement" mode and tried to fix our budget, reducing expenses, and happened onto our phone records where I saw a years worth of phone calls to the same number, 10-20 times a day everyday and totalling from 15 mins to 1+ hours. They were news to me and it was when I confronted him about the calls that he decided he was "going to stay with his mom and dad for tonight"... and one night turned to 2 nights turned to a week, and here we are 3 mos out.
At the moment, he officially made the statement that he will be staying with his parents "for now" and "work on himself" and that I really need to consider if he is the one I want to stay married to. He is sending me a boatload of mixed signals, most of which happen when he is "in the mood" and "missing me". I notice he likes to change the subject when I ask him direct questions or if I mention to him that "I cannot live with whatever is going on between you and her" he will tell me that "he doesn't even know what to say to me right now" as though he's appalled I'd call him out that way. Afterwards he'll say something like, "so how is work?" or "do you still like my beard?" as though nothing is wrong.
His complaints are that I am controlling and that I am more like a mother to him. That I have dictated every aspect of his life from the job he's chosen to the house we live in, to the fact that we even moved out on our own and now the baby and he just can't take it anymore. I feel like I have stepped in to make adult decisions for us when he wouldn't and I'm not sure how to more forward if we decide to reconcile. Some days are good and some days are bad so I'm not sure how to deal with the mixed signals. HELP!!! Thank you so so much in advance, I look forward to swapping stories and getting some insight on this mess.
Also, right now he has made a habit of contacting me regularly to check up on what I'm doing and how I am, and I've been responding. It's been hit or miss...sometimes I'm warm, other times I wait longer to reply, sometimes I lose all control and really tell him all about himself.
We are on what I would call an "upswing" right now since I've been less available but it seems to be sliding me back into old ways. H has been calling all day (which I've been craving) "just to see how I am" as though we are "friends" but sometimes I'll ignore him because it's so many calls and I know he's temp checking! After the 2nd or 3rd call, I'll answer and he'll be a little miffed I didn't answer, saying "I tried to call you earlier...(silence as if to imply I need to give a reason for this ignorance)" and I usually tell him my phone was in the other room or I was doing dishes, etc. We talk for a little while and I'll say, "well, I'm going to go and try to get ready for work and get the little girl ready, be careful!" and he'll say, "alright, sorry I'm bothering you..." and then it just gets very awkward. We chit chat all day right now but when I don't answer a phone call, he will retaliate by not answering my phone calls. If I don't text back quickly, he will clap back by ignoring my response when it does come through. It's all so childish and so confusing.
Someone will come along soon with some reading and links for you. We are all sorry that you are here.
It's hard to explain everything in one posting but I'm struggling to work out the dynamics here.
It reads like you had a marriage whereby you willingly (?) participated in his sexual fantasies and in fact enabled them. They started to make you feel uncomfortable and unhappy (perhaps because of the pregnancy) and he continued irrespective. It doesn't look like he's ever 'hidden' his actions? It looks as if this is partly who he is and that you accepted what he was but now don't. Perhaps he sees mixed messages as well and perhaps what he perceives as controlling - you used to accept it and now you want him to change.
So he asked you if you still want to be married to him. Do you? Only if the sexual dynamic changes? At any cost?
Has there ever been a discussion about your dissatisfaction with these lifestyle choices? Were there any boundaries set?
This forum will help you help yourself and start to think about what it is you want. Nobody here will judge you, but you do need to think hard about what it is about this marriage that you want to save and what your boundaries are for a future relationship.
It reads like you had a marriage whereby you willingly (?) participated in his sexual fantasies and in fact enabled them.
I would say that, yes, I have enabled the behavior. There are some things I didn't explain in the original post. We have been together since I was 16 so, the intensity and dynamics have changed quite a bit through the years but, things I used to be willing to do became less appealing as incidents involving other women began to occur. I used to be incredibly insecure when we first met and he was very confident. I felt that he was attracted to me sexually and this made me feel great but he also used to be very sweet and sensitive...he was very charming so he was a great mixture of both it seemed. I always felt like we had a great sex life and I was always willing to perform and try new things. He began sexting and video chatting other women and this began to color how I felt about continuing the acts. His sensitivity and lovingness seemed to die down, and I began feeling like more of an annoyance. The increased intensity of the fantasies began to make me feel used but I was afraid he would leave if I didn't participate and I felt like a prude when I didn't.
Originally Posted by Yorkie
So he asked you if you still want to be married to him. Do you? Only if the sexual dynamic changes? At any cost?
I do, but I want a loving, respectful version of him. I have a religious conviction that also plays part in reinforcing my commitment so I feel very strongly against divorce but I would also say we share a very codependent relationship where I'm honestly not sure who I would be if not his wife.
Originally Posted by Yorkie
Has there ever been a discussion about your dissatisfaction with these lifestyle choices? Were there any boundaries set?
There has been some but I'd say I've never intentionally set and enforced boundaries so I've just taken whatever I can get at this point to keep the relationship intact. I do believe we started out with a sweet, intimate and loving relationship, but there has been little to no care given to the health of it and I'd say we've both let it waywardly become whatever it has become. I'd like to begin being a better influence and creating a stronger foundation for my future whether it's with him or not, but I'm having a hard time imagining the latter. I'm always open to suggestion for improvement and I feel like there's plenty of room for that!
I have to also say, thank you for your honesty. I haven't talked to anyone in my real life about this that would be forthright with how I might be contributing and I feel like I tend to do a good job making him look horrible and myself look like a martyr which, to some degree I guess I am. It was hard to read that I might be doing all of this willingly as I've made myself out to be quite the victim so I'm hoping to also change that mentality a bit.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Can he change? Yes of course he can. There is always the chance that he will become the sort of H that you envision him being. Will he change is another matter.
BUT .....you can't force that change and you can't sacrifice your own values and beliefs just so that you can continue in the R.
I rather suspect that his 'confidence' will lead him to believe at this stage that he has no need to change. It may dawn on him with time and he may decide to make the necessary changes - but that's for him to sort.
We're more interested in you. I get the co dependency thing when you've been together from a young age. You will have been very impressionable (you were 16, how old was he?) However, I'm sure you don't need us to tell you that not knowing who you are if you are not his wife is not healthy (but happens to lots of us)
Your job over the coming weeks / months / years is to read all these links above and start to work out who you are as an individual. What do you like, what things do you want to do with your life, what do you find interesting, what makes you who you are, what are your core beliefs. You've obviously put his desires before your own, literally and figuratively. It's your turn now.
How do you do that? With time. Opt out of all the drama and trying to please him and take as much time as you need to find yourself.
Hi Ranch, what are your ages and how long have you been married? Your H sounds like a serial cheater, you mentioned he had an A a year ago but honestly it sounds like it never ended, or another immediately took it's place. If he's talking to someone 10-20 times a day then he's engaged in at least an emotional affair with that person if not a full-on physical affair. EA's are generally regarded here as being just as dangerous and damaging as PA's.
Originally Posted by RanchRKS
My H had confessed to possible sex addiction during the revelation of the A and I blew him off at the time as it felt like a cop out for lots of bad behavior over lots of years.
Given what has transpired since then do you feel this is a more serious problem than you originally suspected?
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began to push for a threesome...I turned down the idea. He said it was disrespectful that I wouldn't entertain his fantasies and that it was very hard for him to share these with me. He has a history of sharing fantasies with me, and whether I like them or not, they typically come to fruition...I wasn't prepared for this particular one to manifest.
Would you say he's controlling and manipulative? It sure sounds like it, but sometimes the person that is being controlled doesn't realize it is going on. I am amazed that he called YOU disrespectful for wanting to remain monogamous!!! HE is the one that was being disrespectful by forcing that upon you against your wishes.
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The partying and sexual dynamic changed when I got pregnant and I was no longer able to participate in the things my husband was doing anymore which became incredibly lonely.
So he continued the partying without you? I'm just reading a lot of control, manipulation and lack of respect for you in this. I'm surprised you aren't the one leaving.
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He replaced his motorcycle with a more expensive one, stayed later at work, and became closer friends with an older woman who became his confidant in hard times.
With everything else you've said I strongly suspect the "staying later at work" was actually a side affair going on.
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He felt that the pregnancy was laid on him against his control and that my irresponsibility with taking my pill had left his life in a place he didn't intend on so quickly so, this "friend" seemed to understand all of this and gave him an ear to bend.
Oh poor him! My ex and I had two kids and decided we were done. She too was on the pill. The pill is "99.9% effective", and we learned how real that 0.1% can be. She became pregnant. I never got angry, never blamed her. I did get upset (she did too) because we were both in our 40's at the time but we sat down and said we are going to embrace this and make it work. Our son is 16 now and we both love him to pieces. THIS is what grown, mature people do. Your husband is acting like a spoiled little brat, and you seem oblivious to it!
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I did the opposite of what you'd expect and decided to turn a blind eye to it and put MORE trust in him as I didn't want to overreact.
I'm not sure it's possible to "overreact" considering he has lied to you, cheated on you, disrespected you and blamed you for everything negative in his life. I think maybe you should START to react to this, instead of pining away for him it's time to see him for the piece of garbage he is and focus on you and your D. Leave him be. DO NOT let him come back home. If he wants to, then tell him he has a LOT of work to do on himself first. He is a hot mess, he needs some heavy counseling. I'm sure he doesn't see it that way though, because he is more than likely a narcissist.
I could say more about him but it's just going to be more like the above! Read DR. Detach. Work on you. Leave him alone and hopefully he'll start working on some of his issues.
sorry you find yourself here, but after reading your first post I think it can be the start of a major life 180 for you. Your H is a manipulator, and you have allowed yourself to be prey time and again. He opened up your marriage with his affair. You opened up your marriage to another person at his insistence. Given the recent affair, this seems like enabling behavior. Why did you go along with your H on this? What is your husband doing to battle his addiction? What are you doing to become stronger?
Your husband "felt" this pregnancy was laid upon him out of his control??? I think I would have lost it if I were you. Did your husband ever take a grade school Sex-Ed class? Getting pregnant requires certain things, obviously those were within his control.
You need to stay firm on your boundaries and not allow your H into your life for the parts he wants but not for the parts he doesn't. Your H needs so much help it is almost unbelievable. And his parents taking him in? How old are we here?? I know some may disagree with me, but I think when humans grow up and move out they need to stay out unless they are gravely ill or injured. This is a boundary issue he probably has that he learned from his family. I mean think about it, he has a newborn kid, a sex addiction, multiple affairs and his parents take him in because he can't be burdened to meet the needs of his wife and mother of his child. If that was my kid I'd give him a swift kick in the "butt".
You say you're not sure how to move forward if you reconcile, I hate to say it but you are nowhere near ready for that and neither is he. Your husband is a manchild. His parents enable that. You enabled that for a long time unfortunately. Now that the dynamic has changed a bit, he "doesn't even know what to say to you right now". That is pathetic. But there's also nothing you can do about this, so you have to let it go.
Why do you feel like you owe it to him to let him check in on you? If I were you, and he asked me how I was doing, I'd say "my husband cheated on me AGAIN, abandoned me yet still wants to talk to me, I have a newborn child that he is never around, my husband has an addiction he doesn't care to work on, and he wants to blame me for everything. How do you think I feel?". That may not be the right thing to say, but it is the reality of your situation right now. Do not lose touch with reality over the emotions that are keeping you tied to your H!!!
You are also lying to your H about why you aren't answering his calls. Then you two play games where he gets mad if you don't text back or call back quick enough. End the games. Is the constant communication working for you? Do you like him dropping in and out of your life as he pleases? You are comfortable playing the victim and making the bad guy, let's get you out of the victim role.
I think I've written way too much but I feel really bad for you. We can probably continue to talk in smaller bits at a time so keep posting here!!
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
You opened up your marriage to another person at his insistence. Given the recent affair, this seems like enabling behavior. Why did you go along with your H on this? What is your H doing to battle his addiction? What are you doing to become stronger?
I felt like if he was engaging in this behavior and I was around, at least I would have some control over the situation, and maybe it would be enough to satisfy him so that our day to day interactions could be more wholesome. I realize that it really is enabling behavior and I'm not sure how to stop it as I make a lot of delusional statements like that and I'm hoping you're right about the total life 180. He was seeing a therapist but stopped going when they told him that his life decisions were going to be hard, but he was the only one who could make them. I suppose he didn't know what to do with that information.
As for strength and lifestyle improvement on myself, I have recently begun: -attacking our debt to gain some financial stability -creating a better daily routine with my daughter -making meal plans, grocery budgeting, and cooking more for myself (it's much cheaper and varied now that he isn't in the house!) -spending time on the phone and out with my friends
I am feeling more confident. I also moved his things out of our MBR after I saw on our phone bill he was still talking with other women and not making any significant efforts toward moving back home.
Originally Posted by overrnbw
You need to stay firm on your boundaries and not allow your H into your life for the parts he wants but not for the parts he doesn't. Your H needs so much help it is almost unbelievable. And his parents taking him in?
Yes, his mom is afraid if she doesn't give him a place to stay, he will go and stay with another woman and she would feel responsible. She has dealt with the same behavior from his father so she feels by NOT letting him stay she's enabling him
Originally Posted by overrnbw
Why do you feel like you owe it to him to let him check in on you? ... Do not lose touch with reality over the emotions that are keeping you tied to your H!!!
This is a hard one for me because I think I'm still seeing his behavior through the lens of what I desire AND I find it hard to balance NC with his visitation with our daughter. I want him to check up on me and be interested and spend time with D, so when he does it, I almost fold like a house of cards...only realizing later that it was in response to my distance. :face palm: Anytime things feel too good to be true, I check our phone record and feel incredibly disappointed. I have been confiding in my girlfriend lately and she'll always ask "but what has he actually DONE" and that has been snapping me back into perspective. It's hard to keep myself in check right now.
