Hello. I'm new to the forum but have been doing a lot of reading, and found so much of the information here helpful, especially about detaching. I'm trying very hard to focus only on myself at this point in time, as my situation does not look good.
I'm a 34 year old female, and my wife is 46. We've been together 10 years, married just one year. We've always been a loving, happy couple that never fought (definitely a problem). Our first years had some challenges based around the fact that we are gay and families didn't yet welcome us, the age difference, a financial income difference due to her being more advanced in her career. We worked these issues out together, and we always prided ourselves on being a strong start. We fought for our relationship.
Fast forward to the past 2 or 3 years. My spouse had been having some career trouble, and ultimately left a "big" job due to it no longer being the right fit. She then job-hopped many times over the past 2 years looking for something to fulfill her. Her field is a bit specialized, and our region doesn't have a lot of options. She had been becoming depressed by I always wrote it off as just about her career, and thought our relationship was fine. I was happy and honestly, just as madly in love with her as I had ever been. Probably more so due to our recent wedding, which was a distraction for sure.
Early in the year she was approached by a company in another state about a very promising job. I was terrified - I had no desire to move, even though it would be only 3 hours away. I emotionally shut down and couldn't talk about the prospect. On my part, it was a terrible response to not be able to talk to my spouse about something so important. She turned the job down, letting them know she was still interested but the timing was bad.
I believe it was a few months later the job approached her a second time, and she tried to talk to me about it again. In one of these discussions I was just looking at her, listening, and crying. She told me later it was this moment that her feelings for me just changed. I wasn't willing to discuss moving for her, and she was done. In my defense (if there is any - but not really) there was not a firm offer on the table yet, and she had started the conversation with "we don't have to talk about this now, but here's what's happening". So I didn't talk about it then, but I did start to cry out of fear of change. She saw in my face that I didn't want to go, and she felt so unsupported by the person who was supposed to be a full partner.
In around April or May of this year she came home late after continuing to text me "20 more minutes" for about 4 hours. I was livid by the time she came home - if she was going to come home late that was completely okay, but just let me know because we were supposed to go out for dinner so I was waiting for our plans. This resulted in a complete break-down hysterical crying - she didn't know what was happening, and her life was a mess. I don't remember if she said she wanted to leave at that point, it is a blur. I consider this bomb drop. Something broke, and I didn't know how to fix it.
After this things were a bit strained. We continued to be a couple, but awkwardly at times. I couldn't get out of my own way to attempt to talk to her about this. At the same time, she had a close friend diagnosed with cancer and she was there for her very quick progression and passing. This is the point where I believe she was truly thrown into a MLC. I gave her space during this time and she was unreceptive to me attempting to reach her. She was mourning. I noticed her on her phone constantly around this time, and began to suspect an affair. Turns out she had an EA with a woman who was also a mutual friend of their cancer friend. They bonded while mourning.
My spouse and I started acknowledging just how broken our relationship was, though she didn't know I suspected an affair. She told me that she couldn't "mother" me anymore. She didn't want to be in charge anymore. In our relationship she was always the person who took care of the house, and mowed the lawn and made dinner and cleaned the house. Yes, it was unacceptable. We had been this way for years, and I just didn't pull my weight as an equal partner. This just ultimately was too much for her, and she was done. She said she didnt love me anymore, and that she wasn't sure she had for the past couple of years. I know this to be untrue because I was there at our wedding day - and I do not for one second doubt our love on that beautiful day. But I do believe she thinks she wasn't in love.
The job 3 hours away reapproached her and she accepted without talking to me, and told me 2 days later. I tried to encourage couples therapy, but she put it off until "after Italy". Ah, yes. It was our honeymoon in October. 1 year after our wedding, and I had been planning for a year. So even though we weren't really a "couple" and I knew she was having an EA (I found proof), we went on a trip together that was originally supposed to be our honey moon but ended up being just a trip. It was a nice trip, and we got along quite well. No fighting. But sometimes there was tension, obviously. We weren't working on communicating, because we were just too broken by this point.
When we returned we went to couples therapy twice. I confronted her about the EA, she admitted it. There was a kiss as well, and though I don't want to know I can't be stupid, there is likely a PA. Spouse said I wasn't there for her, and yes they bonded. No regret. She has since moved out of the house for her job 3 hours away. She has an apartment there. We had a couple of nights of just very honest conversation. She was not open to me working on anything, it was all "too little too late".
After Italy is where the full MLC anctics started. She's hot and cold. She changes her mind often. She has completely cut off contact with all friends here at home (and they've noticed). She told me she can't figure out what it is that won't let her say "I want a divorce", whether it's guilt or sense of responsibility. She had told me she's depressed months ago, and has been seeing a therapist. She didn't wish me a happy birthday which is just not the person I know. We saw eachother at the end of October, and decided to take some time in an informal separation where we didn't talk for a while. Let her focus on her job, and let me work on me and figure out what I want in life. This ended about a week and a half later when I reached out and told her I thought minimal (2x week) communication would be helpful, and controlled. She said she didn't have anything to say, but okay, she wasn't opposed to talking. First conversation went well. She had tried to initiate the call as a video chat, but technology failed so we talked on the phone. She told me she had a break-down the day before about all of this. I listened, but couldn't say anything about that - it is for her to work through what that means. Call ended well. Planned the second call the next week. On that day I checked in mid-evening to see if it still worked for her. She said "call in a bit". 2 hours later she called and was short, moody, angry at me - not at all the way we left it the week before. Said she was going to come home for the weekend so we could "talk". Very ominous sounding. Two days later she emailed said she changed her mind, she'll come home this weekend as originally planned.
After writing out this very long overview, here's what I'm thinking. I think originally our issues were 100% about us and our relationship that was not functioning as it should. I was in the wrong sometimes and have apologized. But about part way through, when her friend died, I think MLC kicked into high gear. I haven't been able to outline all the little antics, but she is definitely not herself. I don't know this woman at all. I'm sure she was in MLC beforehand, but it just wasn't in the obvious Replay stage yet.
She comes "home" Wednesday. I expect she'll ask for a divorce. I have no choice but to listen to her, validate that she feels this is the best thing, and state that I happen to disagree, but will not fight her on this. I live in our house, which is 100% in her name.
I don't know that I have any questions, but I feel like this isn't something we can work on with her definitely living in another state. Unless anything changes on her end, I don't think I can change anything. I'm working on detachment. I'm trying to fill my calendar with things I like to do. I don't initiate phone/texts anymore. Neither does she.
As I write this all out it sounds more like a marriage problem that she's just "done" working on, and not a MLC. But I do feel that it IS a MLC, but I've been poor at explaining those pieces. It's all of it together.
Is there anything I can do from a distance besides A) Quietly work on myself. B) Not put any pressure on her and not reach out unless she does first
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
After doing more reading, I'm wondering if what I'm really working with is WW, not necessarily MLC. Do they often present similarly? should I act differently?
Yail, It doesn't really matter what you are dealing with, one thing i quickly learned on here was WW/WAW/MLC while there are some differences are basically all the same and as far as your actions go the response from you should be the same regardless of what is in front of you.
Thanks RyanHun. I'm starting to see that too in reading. I'm not sure I understand if there is a standard process that WW go through, similar to the stages of MLC? I know every situation is different, but are there established patterns or timelines? Does WW situation tend to be "over" any faster than the standard MLC? Right now it feels like divorce quickly. Spouse does not want to be feeling guilt over what's going on, and I think she thinks a divorce will absolve her of living in this.
After I wrote out my intro I realized how much of an impact my actions (well, inactions) had on our relationship. I was 100% not the partner I should have been. Spouse wasn't blameless, as she often would stonewall and shut down emotionally so we didn't talk about a lot of important things in the recent years. I never pushed back, which she has said was something she wished I did to show I cared to reach her. But when I reflect on how painful it must of been for my spouse to not have the partner she deserved, that's rough. I know I'm not that person anymore and I don't wish to be in any future relationship. I'm definitely reflecting and reading and learning about myself and trying to be just more open in life. But none of this matters to spouse, it only matters to me and my future.
But here we are and spouse is definitely acting out, trying to push buttons, and is generally a mess herself. I can't save her at this point - I let her know I'm here to work on the relationship if wanted. But she does not want to, so there isn't much else to do.
My big test this holiday week will be how to distance myself while she is home. Be neutrally present, but not give my power away with moping or asking questions of where she is at. I'll have to set-up a big project I can disappear and work on so we aren't just sitting in a room watching tv together.
A question for folks on being calm, cool, collected and in charge when speaking with W.
I anticipate her return this holiday weekend will result in a conversation in which she asks for a divorce. I plan on validating her feelings in that she needs one. I will state that while that is not where I'm at and what i would choose, our realities are different and her desire for a D will be respected.
My issue is that I've become a constant crier. I never used to be this way! But as I'm processing all of this I generally just burst into tears and I know I will be sobbing as I say these words back to her. I won't be begging or pleading or hysterical, but I know I won't be able to stop crying. Any advice?
It is grief. Your MR is dying so you need to grieve. Are you seeing an IC? You should if you are not. As far as her having the talk with you, spent some time every day mentally preparing. So maybe twice a day have the talk in your mind, play out all the avenues of where it will go. It's just like the way athletes visualize performance to increase performance. Prepare mentally to be ready. If you end up crying then so be it, just try to stay composed. Dont blubber, sob, and fall apart. I don't know the dynamics of a woman and woman MR, but I would advise you approach from a position of strength. Everyone finds strength more attractive than weakness.
Last edited by Twofeet; 11/20/1803:01 PM.
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
Yes, I'm in IC. I like my therapist, but to be honest we're not really "working" on anything. It's mostly a place for me to go and talk about what's happening. I have a lead on a women's group therapy session I may join starting next week. I have a pretty limited friend circle, which is something I'm working on figuring out how to expand in my GAL goals.
Our dynamic in recent years has been that W is the decider and I happily follow along like a love-struck puppy. Looking back it was great for me and awful for her. She never wanted to be the leader, she wanted a partner. It was a terrible, bad habit. It's likely one of the major reasons I find myself where I am now. But I'm not that person at my core. I'm an incredibly strong, confident woman when I set my mind to something. This is the visioning work I've been doing when I play out conversations with W in my head. Because I know that I had fallen in love with her strength as an individual (which has diminished in her current crisis) and it is ridiculous of me to not realize that she likely fell in love with mine.
Before we got together as a couple, we butted heads in power struggles. She definitely pursued that version of me. I am working on examining that piece of me that has been left behind.
It's good that you like your therapist, but are they a good therapist? One thing I have learned is that there appears to be an abundance of bad therapists. The good ones are like gold, you have to go digging. I would suggest goal orientated pro marriage therapist. If it's not happening and you are not moving forward then find another one. I am very introverted and I too have an extremely small circle of friends. Meetup groups are good for expanding this.
Sounds like you have some 180s to work on. Just remember you are doing this for you as much as you are doing this to reattract W. Set goals and break them down to managble bites.
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
Does it matter if the therapist is pro marriage for IC? Legit question, it seems to me that for IC that matters less. I know where my lines are for the relationship, and I know the many of the changes I need to make for me. Do I need my IC to validate that?
This thread I've been pretty open about what I need to change about myself, but W is still very much in MLC/WW. It's not all me that needs to change. Her personality has changed and she is in true crisis, so I don't see her necessarily coming around. She's a "doer", and feels pressure from herself to always move forward in a bit of a bullheaded way. So even though I'm making changes for me (which would ultimately benefit the M, that's true also), I don't see her being someone to pause enough to notice. Plus she's out of state and we don't currently have contact really. It really does all happen so very fast.
W is in IC and I've noticed several changes in her. I appreciate that she's becoming more self-aware. She has said some truly insightful things about herself and I've responded with appreciation. But she also is convinced that she "never did anything for herself" and never lived the life she wanted. I can see parts of that, but for years she very actively wanted our relationship and life. She's just looking around her, asking "is this it?" and freaking out that she has found herself in a happy little suburban life. It's not what she wants right now.
Her EA/PA is a recently divorced woman. The best friend that W spends a lot of time with has her own M experiences that I think are feeding W's "Set yourself free!" mentality. So she's not really surrounded by people encouraging her to take time, to take her own path. I worry that she's looking for help and those closest to her are telling her to run. I can't do anything about it but it hurts.
TBH, I truly hope W is a major success at her new job. That will give her the boost of confidence she needs and deserves and will hopefully aid her in identifying what she values in her life. Of course I hope that turns out to be me, but maybe not. But she's an intelligent and hardworking woman who never believed she could make it this far in her career and still doubts her influence. I want her to be able to shine.
