The bomb woke me up, but she still won't talk

[SteveLW]

So lusa, when are you going to hire a lawyer and file?

[lusa]

Not sure Steve, I'm sitting here at work looking out the window directly at a L's office.
Meanwhile WW's texting various irrelevant niceties and updates on the kids. I think the first thing to do is to finally talk.

I feel like I want to sit her down and say I know how long your EA was going on for, I know I was duped on BD, I know the commitment you made for the future with him and I know you recently broke your self-imposed N/C. For those reasons I want a D.

[SteveLW]

lusa, my overall point is that either you want a D or you don't. Don't say you do if you don't. Don't say I am done when really what you mean is "I don't like your behavior and therefore I am going to threaten D to get you to shape up." What sets LBSs apart from WASs is that LBSs, once they reach the desire to actually D they move forward with it and do it.

I get the impression that you are angry at her contacting OM, and instead of dealing with that head-on you have taken the manipulation approach. I know you say you didn't know she was in the room still. I am not sure if you are being honest with yourself about that or not. Maybe you are, maybe you really didn't think that. Maybe you said "I don't want a D" without hoping she'd overhear it. Or maybe you said it hoping she'd still be within earshot. I don't know. But to me this just seems like it isn't coming from the right place.

Do you REALLY want a D, or is that the pain and hurt of her contacting OM again?

lusa, in my first sitch back in 2005, when I used spyware to find out the content of her IMs with OM, and it was clear an EA was in full blown, headed toward PA mode, I confronted her. She immediately said she didn't want a D. I demanded she send him a cease and desist email, and stop all contact.

About 6 weeks in, with the spyware still running, she sent him an email. She later told me she knew I was monitoring an didn't want to feel controlled. My response? I uninstalled the Spyware and told her she was free to do whatever she wanted. For the next 8-9 years she was fully committed to the marriage. I don't know if she ever contacted him on FB once that became a thing, all I know is she was the loving, caring, wife and mother she was prior to her EA in 2005. My point? What good is being with someone that only does what you want them to do for fear of you Ding them? They need to want to be there because they want to be there. You cannot engender that by threats.

So do you really want a D? Or do you want her to make more promises until she has another weak moment? Are you in IC? Is she? Are you in MC? Anything you can 180 on? Have you ever looked into self-differentiation in marriage? If not I suggest you Google it.

[neffer]

Why don´t you take some TIME to decide lusa? I think this is the first time I get into your sitch. I´m sorry. I´m just trying to catch up with the forum.

I was a WWH. I think part of my mind still is (I heard you Blu). But I know it´s fantasy fueled. So I take it as that. Your W is pursuing a fantasy R with her XH. I know you have the right to stand for your goals, in fact you must do that. But I can´t avoid stating that you need to help W too. She needs to figure out what she wants and she must cut off her EA. GIve her that info and the chance to see you are not waiting for her anymore. Like Sandi said, you are not going to be her OM on her fantasy XH R.

Show W your light. She sees it. She must follow it too.

Release some anger, detach with love (you had nearly done it before) and show W your cards. Set W free.

Respect, hope and mercy. And love above all. Love for W, your kids and yourself.

Be strong there lusa.

[lusa]

Thank you Steve, you are right I don't want to D and this was all me definitely coming from the wrong place. The only way we should stay together is if she chooses to from love not fear, thank you for reminding me. It's so easy for me to forget when I get scared and stressed. There are a few 180's left that I am tackling and will document shortly. I have been reading on differentiation today, very interesting.

Thank you Neffer for your kind words. I feel I have been the light for so long now, she has already followed it to a certain extent. I've come so far already I will continue to learn to detach with love for all of us and set her free.

I am calm now - the support here is so much appreciated.

[sandi2]

I feel like I want to sit her down and say I know how long your EA was going on for, I know I was duped on BD, I know the commitment you made for the future with him and I know you recently broke your self-imposed N/C. For those reasons I want a D.

I think the LBH has a strong desire to let his WW know he has not been totally duped. Being duped is rough for anyone, but I think it's especially tough for men. When you look at the heart of why you want this conversation, it is about revealing what you know to her. If that's what you are going to do, then you need to have some type of plan before you address it. Know what you want, and know what you require from her in order to proceed with a MR. Don't go into it to just see what she says or how she feels. Don't even say what you require, unless you hear her ask what has to do. It's about what she is willing to do in order to save the M. Btw, she doesn't have to like it or feel a certain way, in order to conduct herself respectfully, and honor her marriage.

FWIW, the first thing she'll want to find out is how much you know, and how you found out. Then, she'll probably try to turn the tables and make you feel terrible for invading her privacy. Don't let her get the focus on her not being able to trust "you". She is the one who has had the secret EA. She is the one who violated trust in the MR. WW's are sly, so stay on your toes.

I have often said if my H had told me he wanted out of our M, it would have yanked me back so fast my head would have spinned. You see, the wayward W is arrogant, and sees herself as the one choosing a better life.....a better man.....etc. It's like a game (if you'll excuse the term). As long as she has the ball, she's going to play the offense, but as soon as he gets the ball, what happens? She immediately goes into defense. She wants to secure the ball. That's why the H will start seeing temp checks from her.

I'll add this side note. When I read Neffer's post about his struggles with the fantasy, it brought back memories of how long I clung to the thoughts of "what if", "what could have been" with OM. This was after I decided to end my A and stay in the M. A fantasy can be very strong. Just b/c a wayward spouse decides to end the A doesn't mean the fantasy ends. The WS has to murder it! It's not going to quietly slip away. It's not going to die a natural death. You have to kill it. This type of fantasy is unhealthy for the individual and for the MR. Once the fantasy is gone, then the love in the MR has a chance to heal and grow.

So anyway, when you decide to confront her, don't go in playing defense. You have the ball.

[lusa]

This is beginning to get a bit boring and repetitive even for me now so it must be for anyone reading this.

I saw tonight that she had started messaging potential OM2 with kisses at the end etc. A newly divorced old school friend which she recently connected with on FB. It doesn't matter she is completely wayward and until she really wants to change inside, will stay that way.

She's nothing but nice to me, cooking for me initiating hugs, calling me my pet name all the time (too much even). She acts all feminine and girly around me but I know that could change in an instant. I'd only have to say a couple of words and the facade would drop, her face visibly turns to thunder and the real WW comes out. If she looks at me her eyes seem to be burning with anger. The closet thing I've seen to it is actresses in movies that pretend to be possessed.

I think this further secret relationship starting with another man is really going to give me the impetus to focus on what I need and to strive towards it whether I have fear or not. I now feel like I am watching this unfurl on tv like a slow car crash.

It's our 15th wedding anniversary tomorrow, so they'll be cards and presents and food cooked or eating out. I plan to at some point ask her if she thinks we will be celebrating our 16th. And then if she is willing to recommit to the M and explain that it means doing whatever she can to make the M work and will involve wanting to attend MC for the right reasons. If she states everything is so much better between us so there is no need to attend m/c and she pushes me for a reason I will explain that my issue is her secret relationships with other men. They are intolerable to me and it is not possible for us to stay M whilst she continues.

Now I know her main issue and my main issue is her waywardness but I don't know how to explain that. If i tried I think it would come out wrong, with references to the state of her heart etc, and she would immediately take it as a direct attack. I think the only hope of saving our M is for her to want to attend m/c and then use those sessions to address her waywardness delicately. I don't want to D and I am willing to do anything necessary to fix our M but this will be the only chance I give her.
I won't continue to live in limbo, ignore secret communications leading to secret relationships, and live in a pretend M where our relationship is never discussed.

So that's my plan. No hard hitting accusations, showing I know I was duped or have found out all these bad things she's done. Just gently, lovingly guiding her to recommit and attend m/c with me. If she refuses I will have to tell her we can't remain married and I want her to leave the family home.

Thanks for your advice Sandi, it is so really helpful. I've been musing on what you wrote all day. I find I'm asking myself the questions you ask and it's helped me determine the best approach, get a game plan and determine what I want and what I have to do.

I'm taking the ball back

[SteveLW]

I plan to at some point ask her if she thinks we will be celebrating our 16th.

What is the purpose of this? What do you hope to accomplish? How is this sticking to the "no R talk" principle?

[lusa]

It's been 14 months, when is it ok to initiate an R talk?

[AnotherStander]

It's been 14 months, when is it ok to initiate an R talk?

When you are ready to initiate D.