Hi, I've been lurking for a while now, read DR, had a session with a coach and have read lots of posts and links. What a fantastic set of supportive people you all are on here.
Married 27 years, 3 fantastic sons. Looking back, I was 'smug' that we had been married so long without any problems, but in doing so we both neglected to nurture the marriage.
H left end of June this year when I discovered his 17 month affair. Came back, went again, came back, went again and has now been gone properly since end of July. OW has been on and off numerous times in that period. We agreed that we would attempt to save the marriage and I heard all the right things from him about remorse.
I did everything wrong; too much trying to get him to see how contradictory he was being, crying, begging, angry and unsurprisingly he couldn't cope with it.
Wedding anniversary 14/9 and we spent a nice day together and he began the relationship talk; talked about buying a new house and retirement plans etc. He volunteered that he realised when he left in June that he chose his marriage and family over the other woman Unfortunately he forgot that when she rang him 4 days later and they met up and she spent the night. I therefore announced that I wasn't prepared to play this game with them anymore and was opting out of the circus.
I listened to the advice that Chuck gave me about GAL and feel that I have entered a healthy phase of detachment and have been able to take a step outside of the marriage to truly see the situation. But this has led me to have doubts about what I am actually trying to save. I'm worried that I'm actually trying to save 'face' rather than the marriage. Now, I've stopped checking in with him all the time, stopped trying to fix him and make sure he's all right, I don't actually miss him. If anything I'm relieved when I don't see him or have contact. 2-3 weeks ago I was so sure that I would do whatever to save this marriage. Now, I seem to feel that if he can't show that he wants to be in the marriage (and completely ditch the OW) then I'm better off out of it. I'm enjoying a new sense of self awareness and self growth.
Is this normal so soon in the process? Is it a phase and can I expect a return of previous emotions?
He was a good man and a good father. A stressful career and an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. Some classic symptoms of MLC such as wondering if this was all there was to life, that he felt nothing about anything in his life except for OW who made him feel alive. I try to remember what Chuck told me - that the primary emotion behind his actions is pure fear and that the more I cross examine him, the more humiliating it is for him. Nobody came back to a marriage through humiliation.
Our 1st grandson was born yesterday. Two weeks ago I asked him what we were going to do when he was born. He suggested that when we heard, he would ring me and we would go and visit together. I agreed because his relationship with his sons has been strained. I waited for the call until 6pm this evening and then went by myself. I feel very disheartened that despite me taking all the pressure off him, he couldn't do this one thing for our eldest son and new grandson.
With this and my new feelings, I just wonder if the writing is on the wall. I know I will be fine, but would always wonder what might have happened if we'd at least tried.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
so sorry to read your story. On a positive note, I love your name. My Mom has always had Yorkies (the dogs), my neighbor has one. Maybe that's not what your name means but that's what popped into my head.
Your H is up and down, back and forth, all over the place. Have you taken any positive steps to re-center yourself? Obviously, after 27 years of marriage, this sort of thing isn't just going away for you emotionally overnight. Still, I think you need to start the work there of giving up what you can control, and living your life the best you can in the ways that you can. The wayward spouse is always going to blame the left behind spouse for everything. Your H says it's your fault, you did this, you did that to rationalize and justify his own wrongdoings. Don't add fuel to this fire. You can tell him the truth if the lies are blatant, but don't get dragged into the muck doing so.
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If anything I'm relieved when I don't see him or have contact.
I know this feeling. It's sad that a cheating spouse brings the marriage to this point. I don't think it's normal this early in the process, but everyone is different and that's ok. Emotions may return in time, with work between the two of you. Have you not been connecting well the last few years?
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With this and my new feelings, I just wonder if the writing is on the wall. I know I will be fine, but would always wonder what might have happened if we'd at least tried.
Everyone will wonder about this, but in the end, we'll never know. So we go back to putting that energy in the right place and trying to be productive and happy little humans!
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Thank you for your reply. My name is an indication of where I was born in the UK; but more than happy to be associated with a four legged friend.
I think what went wrong was quite simple and probably cliched. We forgot about each other once the kids were gone and took each other for granted. I was promoted and very engrossed in my career (to fill the gaps in life I expect) and didn't notice that he was struggling. I should have been there for him; but I wasn't. I acknowledge my part in the vulnerability of the marriage but after 30 years together, maybe he would have said something rather than look elsewhere. That's on him, not me.
A couple of months before D day he did say that he didn't know where he fit in my life anymore, or if I needed him. Guess what the OW is very needy and has small children, so is always at home when he decides to call in. He likes to'sort' her mess out and look like a hero. But why he has to feel 'needed' and only feel self worth in this way is not something I can sort out for him. He needs to have some self discovery himself. Time apart is something I think is necessary to clear our heads; the problem I think is that even when they break up, she is back on the phone within days.
There have been times when he seems more grounded and has told me what the relationship with OW is and how it is toxic. But, after they last broke up and got together again, I reminded him of what he'd said and he suggested that it was different this time because she felt that they might have a future now. She is totally controlling this infatuation that he has with her. This is why I have totally backed off a game of tug of war. It's undignified for one thing.
Now i'm not performing in the circus, I feel a great weight has lifted. No more anxiety, no more tears. I chose for 27 years to mould myself to his and the families needs. It was my choice and I wouldn't change it for anything. 3 wonderful sons was the reward. But, I'm now doing things solely because I want to and it feels great.
I'm also self aware enough to know that I am more than capable of putting a shield around myself to control my emotions. I do it every single day in an emotionally challenging job (I investigate unnatural deaths) I am worried that whilst I sort out what I truly want, the impression that I give to him is one of 'oh well I was right' she really doesn't need me and is happy whereas he is unhappy.
I have of course tried to explain to him that I don't 'need' him; but want him and that happiness is within and he shouldn't be looking outside of himself for happiness. But needless to say it fell on deaf ears.
Self discovery via distancing is very revealing, but I'm not sure what it is revealing is beneficial to the marriage. I'm starting to wonder how we stayed married for 27 years!!
I would always wonder what might have happened if we'd at least tried.
I dont really understand this. What is there to "try" when he isnt invested in the relationship. I think youre on the right path. I think the below sums up a healthy attitude.
Originally Posted by Yorkie
Now, I seem to feel that if he can't show that he wants to be in the marriage (and completely ditch the OW) then I'm better off out of it.
Wedding anniversary 14/9 and we spent a nice day together and he began the relationship talk; talked about buying a new house and retirement plans etc. He volunteered that he realised when he left in June that he chose his marriage and family over the other woman Unfortunately he forgot that when she rang him 4 days later and they met up and she spent the night. I therefore announced that I wasn't prepared to play this game with them anymore and was opting out of the circus.
GOOD! If there were problems in the M then there are ways to address that OTHER than an affair. You should cut him ZERO slack on that, so well done!
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I listened to the advice that Chuck gave me about GAL and feel that I have entered a healthy phase of detachment and have been able to take a step outside of the marriage to truly see the situation. But this has led me to have doubts about what I am actually trying to save. I'm worried that I'm actually trying to save 'face' rather than the marriage.
Well we all do go through that phase I think. Personally I think I was trying to save my M out of a sense of loyalty to my ex and my kids. But when I honestly take a hard look at the latter years of our M, I was not happy either. D had crossed my mind a few times. I had committed to sticking it out but while we loved each other like family (and still do) we weren't "in love" anymore. So yes, do some soul-searching there and decide for yourself why you are standing, or even if you are standing.
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Now, I've stopped checking in with him all the time, stopped trying to fix him and make sure he's all right, I don't actually miss him. If anything I'm relieved when I don't see him or have contact. 2-3 weeks ago I was so sure that I would do whatever to save this marriage. Now, I seem to feel that if he can't show that he wants to be in the marriage (and completely ditch the OW) then I'm better off out of it. I'm enjoying a new sense of self awareness and self growth.
Is this normal so soon in the process? Is it a phase and can I expect a return of previous emotions?
It's hard to say, you may have dropped the rope or you may have tricked yourself into thinking you've dropped the rope. I would say if after a month you still feel this way and have not wavered then you've dropped the rope. But usually it doesn't happen this quickly. I will say that after a few months I thought I had dropped the rope and moved on, but then out of nowhere I was slammed with depression and anxiety attacks, neither of which I had ever experienced before. It was the lowest point of my entire life, and there was nothing in particular to explain the timing. I went on A/D's for a few months and recovered, but I didn't well and truly drop the rope until about a year after BD.
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I try to remember what Chuck told me - that the primary emotion behind his actions is pure fear and that the more I cross examine him, the more humiliating it is for him. Nobody came back to a marriage through humiliation.
Quite right, excellent advice.
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I waited for the call until 6pm this evening and then went by myself. I feel very disheartened that despite me taking all the pressure off him, he couldn't do this one thing for our eldest son and new grandson.
Drop your expectations because he will disappoint you every time. You did the right thing in just going by yourself.
Amoafwl and AnotherStander thank you for your replies.
Wondering what might have happened if we'd tried is my acknowledgement that there were problems in the marriage and that the OW is a symptom of that. It is disappointment I suppose that he is so frightened that it cannot change and that he is not prepared to try to solve the underlying problem at the moment. I know I have to decide when all my hope is gone without being a doormat; I just hope that I will not do it too soon. I can see it's a balance.
Anotherstander, I will take on board your advice and give myself at least a month to see if I am tricking myself into believing it. I am starting to believe that if he looks for reconciliation and I've moved on, that's all on him.
I have to say that this forum and the DB coaching has been a life saver. I was asked to list what I did that was just for me; that put a bounce in my step. Couldn't think of anything. Now I can see that I molded myself to his and the family's needs for so long that I forgot about myself. That is changing and I'm thoroughly enjoying doing what I want to do rather than if someone else approves.
I tell myself that detaching is for myself and I do genuinely feel better for it, BUT I also know that a little bit of me wants to shout "hello, I'm detaching here, have you noticed?" When does that alter, ,if at all?
Had contact with H yesterday after 2 weeks of business only contact and we had a very civil upbeat conversation about new grandson and about a friend of ours. I noticed he was putting his coat on when he heard my car, but stayed with his coat on for about 20 minutes chatting. Perhaps that is a positive step created by my PMA and cheeriness?
What if he is also 'detaching' because he wants to see who will break first? It still feels like a bit of a game ploy (not the GAL bit because that is great; just the NC bit)
I suspect that if he has things he needs at the house; he has been coming when he knows he won't have to face me.
Should i intervene at all where the adult children are concerned? There are things I want to suggest he could do that would mean a lot to them and him, but I'm conscious that it is controlling behaviour. I don't have confidence that he'll think of them himself and things will deteriorate further.
Just wanted to drop by and send you some encouragement. I am a bit like you... further along than I think I should be. I also wonder if it is too soon and maybe I’m fooling myself. My H and I have been quite chatty lately. I am undecided about whether that is a good idea or not. On the one hand, it is good for our kids to see us getting along so well but, on the other hand, it is a lot like cake eating too. Part of me feels like I should be putting up more of a wall but then I would need to act is opposition to who I am as a person. I also get what you say about NC seeming a bit like a game. I feel the same way. This past week I have had a number of conversations with my H that went well but I had decided that I would be as much NC as possible this weekend to balance the scales a bit more, so to speak. But then he texted me first thing this morning with some info that was kind of unnecessary so I answered him. So much for NC.
I think your H notices that you are detaching. There is no way you can have been together as long as you have without him noticing a change. My H and I had a talk the other day and I mentioned that I was starting to get back in touch with who I was before I met him and he said, “Yeah, I’ve noticed!” My H is not the most observant guy in the world when it comes to me. Trust me...your H notices.
If I were you, I would try not to intervene when it comes to your adult children. I think your H needs to figure that out for himself. If he asks for your advice, for sure give it to him. But if he doesn’t, he can figure it out.
Keep doing what you’re doing Yorkie! I think you are doing fantastic!!!
Thank you DejaVu6 for your words of encouragement. I will catch up with your posts later.
So yesterday he rang to talk to me about the kids and the fact that the youngest son (21) had given him a hard and frosty reception when he came to collect the dog (me out for the day GAL!) I told him that I was sorry to hear that but that H needed to put on his big boy pants and sort it out. If that meant he was going to be met with a frosty reception a few times then he needed to man up and persevere (said in a teasing manner and seen as such)
He then moved onto starting to tell me about the OW and how they were talking but weren't a couple and that they were talking because of the problems she was having with her ex. I was a bit rude and stopped him mid sentence and said that I really didn't want to talk about her as she was none of my concern and her ex husband certainly wasn't, and I didn't want to talk about our R either. He seemed a bit taken aback. I explained that as far as I was concerned there was no marriage whilst he was in a relationship with another woman and when that ended (because I knew that it would) he should come and talk to me and we'd see where we were at. In the meanwhile neither myself or the children were interested in his sex life. He just said 'fair enough' we both know where we stand then.
I did take the opportunity to talk 'business' about the house etc and did ask that before he got his feet under the table with OW he needed to wind down the marriage and all that entailed. He said that he knew that, but there was no hurry. (I suspect cake eating) He had said that he would help to prepare the house for sale but no inclination to even sort out the garage or loft at the moment but he did let slip that he wouldn't need to be back at the house so much because the OW had offered to do his laundry. I laughed and asked if that was to keep him away from the house and he said that it was.
I asked him to think about whether that was fair when he had the marriage to wind up and he said 'probably not' and when I asked further what the motivation from her was and he said 'I think she's worried that we'll get back together'
It remained very civil and I just asked him to consider whether he wanted to be controlled to that extent which would very obviously lead to a decline in civility between us and may also herald her wanting to keep him away from the boys. He said he would give that some thought. I told him calmly that he may be prepared to have the OW control his life but he could be certain of one thing; she wasn't going to control mine.
He told me that whilst he was what I would still describe as crazy H; he was happy being crazy H at the moment and felt more settled than he had in a long time ie I'm better off out of the marriage.
The whole thing hasn't upset me, but has unsettled me. It felt quite final and emotionless. I regret engaging him for so long on the phone and felt myself going into 'lecturing' mode but drew back quickly. I did however want to take the opportunity when it presented itself to lay down some boundaries and reiterate that I wasn't going to be involved in his drama.
