I’m new to DB and I can see it’s a great community. My W and I have been married for 14 years next week and have two beautiful daughters (9 and 4). Two weeks ago I made an innocuous comment at the first day of school for my 9 year old and that resulted in a text asking for a separation. We’ve had our share of communication issues, but I didn’t expect it to go directly to separation.
Through our relationship we’ve always had some communication issues but it’s become much more prevalent in the last two years. My W had a very difficult childhood where she was raised by and Aunt and Uncle in another country and had a forced reunion with biological family when she was 15 in the US. She did not receive a lot of affection in her younger years and had a bit of cinderella experience. It’s taken her years to work through those emotions and as you can imagine plays a part in how we communicate in our marriage. I lost a parent tragically when I was young and that has affected me and how I’m able to express myself as well. So, bottom line is we both came in with some baggage, but for many years helped each other grow.
After the birth of our second daughter things began to get more stressful. I changed careers which included a longer commute. I certainly take this stress home with me which is not good. My W is successful in her career and has been the primary breadwinner throughout our relationship. That said, in the last 4 or 5 years my career has really started to blossom, but there is still resentment that I can’t seem to overcome.
Her mother and aunt passed two years ago and things really started to get difficult for her emotionally. That coupled with a stressful ‘hitting the glass ceiling’ work environment has made her more and more stressed out. Our arguments would typically start because I was not being empathetic or would offer unwanted advice and then she would go from 0 to 100 in seconds. She’s got a hot temper. I would chase her around apologizing even if I didn’t think I was wrong and she would then need a day to cool off. In the last two years she threw out ‘why don’t you Divorce me then’ a handful of times when I tried to express my frustrations. I ignored those signs thinking it was just a threat given her hot headed nature.
I’ve increasingly thought she should get 1 on 1 counseling for her work stress/parent loss mourning as well as couples therapy, but I was honestly too scared to open my mouth.
Fast forward to present day. One of our problems has been centered around my own issues with being the center of attention. In public I don’t want the spotlight on me. She’s gregarious and could care less and honestly that’s one of the things I’m attracted to. I have a tendency to put my insecurities on her in public and it drives her crazy. It should. I totally get it and have made efforts at improving myself. I think I’ve been much better at it the last couple years, but 2 weeks ago at the first day of school I blew it. she wanted to look in the classroom when the new teacher was lining up the kids. The teacher clearly wanted parents to leave. I asked my W what she was doing. She said she wanted to see if the classrooms had A/C. I said ‘of course they do it’s a new building’. This was quiet and between us, but in front of other parents although I doubt anyone heard it. Regardless it was a tipping point and she blew up. I got a text later asking for a Separation. This is also a week my mother, Aunt and Uncle are all visiting from out of state in my house….fun.
That day I was in shock and tried to meet her at work. She wanted none of that and even went as far as to say ‘stop texting, I’m recording this’….I backed off. Later in the day I received emails about kids and separation and she told me to start looking for a place to live. We had a very brief conversation that night where she said she needs to be away from me and if I don’t give it to her it’s straight to divorce.
The next morning she emailed and said that since my daughter is in a new school and having a tough adjustment (she didn’t want to leave old school) she would wait until 9/15 before the ‘separation’. We would reassess at that time. I of course take that as an opening to change things. I asked if we could see a couples therapist and she agreed.
I had a 1 on 1 session within days and she said she would do the same. To my knowledge she has not scheduled anything yet. We had one session with a therapist this week. The therapist was good and tried to slow things down since we have not been in counseling yet. My W was not very responsive to things, but agreed to have 5 minute conversations daily with me. We have another appointment this coming Tuesday.
It’s crazy, although life has been stressful and we haven’t been communicating well we still enjoyed each other, had fun with our kids, went on outings, playdates and dinners with friends. We lived a life together until two weeks ago. Now I’m invisible in the house. Sleeping on the couch. Kids don’t know yet, but they’ll figure it out soon…at least the 9 year old will. We’re pretty good in front of the kids, but until yesterday she’s been unable to speak to me 1 on 1.
Two nights ago in our 5 minute talk she expressed that she didn’t realize how ‘dire’ the situation was until we met with the therapist. That’s mind blowing to me since she’s the one that asked for the separation. Our session was focused on her anger towards me and how I can change. The second night I was honest about how I argue with her as this was a point she made with the therapist and admitted that at times I deny we are not on the same page. Her discussion points centered around the actual public interaction we had. Said it hurts her so much because it makes her feel like I’m ashamed of her. She doesn’t believe that I actually have a public insecurity issue. I understand that she shouldn’t have to accept that about me, but her take is that I’m embarassed by her. That was hard to hear and I feel really badly about that.
Last night she came back from an event and actually was able to small talk with me about the event. we had our 5 minute talk and I expressed how I empathize with her and feel bad that I make her feel that way. She asked more about why I act that way and I tried to explain. I’m not 100% sure I even know. I need my own help in that department. What blew my mind though was that next she said ‘when do we tell our friends’. Really hurt that she cares about that. She doesn’t realize that she is the WAS. Somehow she implies I’m the one walking away because the focus has been on how I make her feel. I have supressed a lot of emotions over the years about how I’m treated for fear of how it would set her off. All that is making me really angry.
I have not agreed to move out. She is the breadwinner, but I’m the one that comes home everyday to relieve our nanny ( we live in LA and have commute so we have to have help in picking up kids). She’s had months of business travel where she would be gone from Monday - thurs/friday and I would take care of the kids and work, yet the assumption is I move out. I’m thinking about custody battles yet, but I fear if it gets there it will be nasty. I won’t settle for seeing my girls every other weekend.
Anyway, She’s starting to plan weekend outings without me with the girls. She said ‘you need to start thinking of you not us’. I should point out that in her life she has made sudden and complete breaks from multiple close friends and family members. In her own therapy dealing with her childhood she was counseled to walk away from people that don’t make her feel happy or treat her badly. That is probably good for her. That said I always new I may be one of those people if it goes badly.
I’m going to try and detach now. I think I’ll be in the house with her for at least another 3 weeks. I’m not sure how to handle it. Although she talks as if I need to leave mid September it still feels like maybe I have a chance. This was all so sudden. I do feel that if we had some time we could slowly mend this, but once I’m out of the house I think it’s over. At that point it’s all about the kids.
My next couples session is Tuesday. I’m struggling how to handle things until then and in that room. The therapist is clearly trying to help us at least engage and she’s sent me emails with some advice so I’m just trying to figure out how to handle my next few steps.
Personally I have been working out daily and taking care of my appearance. I haven’t had a drink- I don’t have a a problem per se, but I do have a drink or two daily. I’m going out with a friend tonight. I’m trying.
I am reading DB and I ordered DR. Am I at the LRT stage at this point?
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
So one thing I've learned over the years that there is rarely a "straw that broke the camels back" in these kinds of things. She is trying to say this comment at the first day of school is the catalyst for this separation. I say hogwash. She is claiming that your public shyness or whatever makes her feel like she embarrasses you. I say hogwash to that too. If she isn't embarrassed why would your embarrassment bother her? It makes no sense!
However, what does make sense, to me anyway, are these statements:
Quote
She’s had months of business travel where she would be gone from Monday - thurs/friday
Quote
She’s starting to plan weekend outings without me with the girls.
RED FLAGS!!
I've told the story about some friends of ours several years ago, the H being a severe type 1 diabetic. His W our beloved friend started doing business trips quite often. Turns out most of them were not business and were personal trips she was taking with OM.
Yeah, what I am telling you is likely there is an OM. I am sorry but Ws do not end a marriage over their Hs, whom they've been with for years, being socially shy. You are telling me that for 15+ years she was okay with it, and then suddenly one day it is so bad for her that she wants to separate? Yeah, not buying that.
I am not a proponent of snooping, but at this point you need to do some reconnaissance. You need to see if you can check on these girls' weekends somehow. And you need to check on these supposed business trips. All of this adds up to the likelihood that she is involved in a PA.
In the story above, when our friend came to us and said his W wanted to divorce. And she couldn't give him a good reason why, we encouraged him to consider the possibility she was involved with someone else. He was resistant at first but eventually snooped on her email and found out we were right. He then hired a PI to get hard evidence it was still occurring.
What does your gut tell you? And please lay aside denial. I know you don't want to believe it, but is it possible?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
thanks for reply. I could be proven wrong here, but I don't think there is an OM.
She had a consulting business and most of her clients for a time were tech companies in the Bay Area. It required her to be face to face a couple days a week. They would pay her hotel or condo and she'd be there when needed as long as the contract was in place. She'd call nightly and we kept close in contact. She hasn't had those trips in a couple years. My point was more around the assumption that I'd be the one to move out. She is a great mom. I was more making the point I have made sacrifices for these kids and am an equal caretaker in the relationship.
As far as 'girls weekends'- I don't think I was that clear. Since asking for separation she has begun to plan outings with our daughters without me. Trip to the park or the beach. They are going to my brother in-laws pool party this weekend and I'm not invited (even thought I was invited by him). Obviously this is so new that nobody knows Although we've had troubles it went from fun loving family to full stop. That stuff hurts and doesn't make the future look too bright.
Now could there be an OM. I guess there could, but she is honestly so busy at work and at home I can't see it, but anything could be possible so I'll certainly keep my eyes and ears open.
I am a little perplexed about the 'straw that broke the camels back' incident. I get a little awkward and I do try to 'control' her for lack of a better term in the past. It's more 'don't make a scene' kind of stuff. I really don't think I've done it that much lately and I don't think I really did it at all that day.
Who knows. What I do know is that her stress level outside the relationship has been crazy. She's snapping at me all the time and the girls. I've attributed a lot of our problems lately to that. I could tell that even the therapist was encouraging her to get some 1 on 1 time with someone to deal with us and herself.
Ok. obviously you know more about your sitch than I do. Just doesn't seem like th AC comment was something she should freak out so much about that she wants a S. That coupled with the bus. trips and the "girls" weekends (thanks for the clarification on that) it seemed like a perfect storm for a PA.
Hopefully not. But yes start detaching, 180ing, GAL and just being the best you that you can be. Its all you can do at this point.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
There are more than two people in your marriage. I'd bet a month's pay on it. Women with small children, sending up the red flags your wife is, don't suddenly want to be a single mom unless your replacement is already lined up.
I highly recommend that you should NOT MOVE OUT. harder to bust a D if you are separated.
I also recommend not sleeping on the couch. She wants, out, let her move out of the bedroom. Do not be a puppy dog and roll over (unless this is a 180 for you). Move back into the master bedroom. There my be a risk here in her claiming physical abuse. If you have concerns, weigh the risk/rewards and make a good decision.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I agree that I should not move out. I get that. She left it as she needs 'time apart' and either I go or she goes. In that exchange I said I'd go, but in couples counseling discussed not moving out. My concern with her is that she can get really reactive when upset and I'm worried that if I refuse to move out she'll move out and take the kids. That [censored] too. The couples therapist really picked up on me not wanting to move out and I hope we make some headway this week. otherwise I'm not sure what to do. She wants her space and I'm not sure how to give it.
I am on the couch and not sure how to get back in the bedroom at this point. Your point about risk of physical abuse is if I move back in against her will? Part of this is trying to keep the kids out of the loop for the moment. If I can turn this thing before moving out they don't need to be affected...I know the clock is ticking though.
There are more than two people in your marriage. I'd bet a month's pay on it. Women with small children, sending up the red flags your wife is, don't suddenly want to be a single mom unless your replacement is already lined up.
I Agree
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
You know I honestly never thought there could be someone else. I'm typically not naive in relation to these things, but maybe I have been blind. It will come out in the next couple therapy. She really can't lie. If she has been keeping something like this for a long time then I really don't know her...I would be floored. have to prepare for that possibility I suppose.
