Such a fine line with her. When I am nice and spend time around her but focus on D3 (she is obsessed with D3 almost to an unhealthy level) she likes it, has mentioned wanting to touch or hug more months ago when I was hanging at her parents to see D3 when I worked every night in the spring. When I go LRT and little to no contact I dont see much improvement or negative - just flat line more of the same. When I pursue that definitely gives her anxiety and makes her pull away.
She is so sensitive and calls herself an empath - she picks up feelings from people around her. So when I am tense or try to hold back and not be myself she immediately feels it. Trying to DB (which is the opposite of my tendencies to be nice and loving to the woman I love... trying my best) is hard in person. I feel like I should just be myself in person but focus on D3 and little to no focus on W. Not be short or anything just calm, cool, confident, happy.
Pretty sure there is no OM in the picture at least she never mentions him and for some reason she tells me who shes going out with when she makes plans. Obviously could be lying or hiding it but she used to bring up OM when he was in the picture. I guess I shouldnt really be dating since I want to be with my wife but its been almost a year and a half with no end in site... getting lonely and a man has needs ya know!
I went to the gym tonight then to a nature reserve near my house, facetimed with daughter to say goodnight and ended up talking to D3 for a while. She does really well at W's house... she is a great mom just a little over the top. I had mentioned to W a few days ago that I really want D3 every day but not alone... I guess thats definitely pursuit. W talked about starting her business, expenses, trying to be tight with money etc. A few weeks ago she bought some things for each of us and had said maybe I owe her a drink or dinner and I was all for that... now she is talking about me just paying her back. I didnt let my disappointment show... Wishing / hoping for more but still not seeing real progress. Ill keep fighting.
H: 33 W:32 M: 5 T: 8 D: 4 BD: 6/2017 MO: 6/2017 House sold: 6/28/18 W wants to build friendship / relationship- 9/18 Paying $ support since 7/18. Physical Reconnect- 10/18 W Starts- IC / MC - 10/18
D....my x never moved closer to me when I went no contact but it benefited me with my detachment process. You just have to stick to the plan for yourself.
Yeah. What Joseph said. The no-contact is really more for you than for her. You are still trying to get reactions out of her, which makes it seem like you need to work more on your detachment. NC helps with that.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
Found this... like it better than the lighthouse since it talks about WAW coming to check you out then running away again... This is what Im going for.
Gone Dancin' Offline OP Member Joined: May 2007 Posts: 1,533 ID Hey all,
I've decided to post the picnic analogy again for all of the newcomers who don't know about it. I've typed it in my own words, but I believe it is pretty accurate. Comments, ideas, suggestions, changes, etc, are obviously welcome. Think Tanks are very helpful with things like this!
PICNIC ANALOGY:
Imagine that the WAS is inside an impenetrable castle. WAS is deep inside the castle walls and has no desire to see the outside world. WAS has his/her own world right there inside those cold, stone walls.
Then there's you. You're sitting on the other side of the moat (drawbridge is up, btw). You've got a nice blanket laid out on the cool, green grass, and you're enjoying yourself by having a wonderful picnic all alone. You're absolutely content with this, and aren't even concerned with the castle and the WAS within (in fact, you've got your back to it).
Eventually, WAS gets a little curious about the what's going on outside the castle, and decides to take a peak over the walls. WAS sees you, just sitting there enjoying yourself. He/She is surprised, because previously you had been throwing rocks at the castle, singing and dancing in hopes of getting their attention. WAS is wondering what you're up to, and why you're so content. After a while, WAS decides to lower the drawbridge and join you at your picnic. WAS sits down, and you just act as if -- you're happy, confident, etc. Suddenly, WAS realized where he/she is and what he/she is doing, and it scares the hell out him/her. WAS jumps up and dashes back to the castle for no apparent reason. You however, didn't even budge or flinch. WAS peeks back out to see what you're doing, and notices that you're still sitting in the same place, enjoying yourself without concern. Again, WAS is surprised, and eventually comes out again. This time WAS stays a little longer, but again gets spooked and runs back. However, you're still not deterred from enjoying your picnic. The WAS's visits begin to happen more and more, and they last longer and longer. Once he/she realizes that there is no risk for him/her (i.e. that you won't bring up the R, pursue her, get angry, become needy, etc), WAS begins to reflect on things, and begins questioning his/her choice to go to the castle. In time, WAS decides to bring up the R, and this is when you can discuss it with him/her because WAS is ready and has initiated the talk.
THIS is why it is important to avoid pursuing, because it gives the WAS the opportunity to miss you, reflect, see your changes and strength, etc. So, the next time me or anyone else tells you to just enjoy your picnic, you'll know what it means. This is a term that we used a lot this summer, but it kind of went away. I think it describes the pursuit dynamic perfectly. Don't chase the WAS back into the castle and hold him/her captive by standing outside the walls and trying to get his/her attention. As long as this is the case, it is likely that they'd rather starve themselves in their than come out.
Hope this helps some of you!
H: 33 W:32 M: 5 T: 8 D: 4 BD: 6/2017 MO: 6/2017 House sold: 6/28/18 W wants to build friendship / relationship- 9/18 Paying $ support since 7/18. Physical Reconnect- 10/18 W Starts- IC / MC - 10/18
You have to drop the emotional rope you have tied around her. Stop focusing on something to do that will get a particular reaction from her. When you let go of all that stuff, that's when things will change.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I could be wrong here but I don’t think anybody on these boards would suggest you go NC, it’s more about you going forwards with her there but in the background. Pursuit is a massive NO NO but this is where the counter-intuitive aspect of DR comes into play, get more interesting doing your GAL activities and she’ll get curious plus now your concentration is elsewhere...
I suggest if you can keep the channels open but one way her to you, being pleasant and friendly isn’t a crime but you need boundaries if there’s disrespect walk or better still ask her to don’t stand for it No R talk especially if there is an OP involved, learn to see the traps coming before they come and dissipate the tension by validating if warranted or again end the convo.
Smiling is an amazing weapon in your armory (how dare he be happy) and keeping cool, calm and classy in the face of madness also gets results! Confidence is attractive but for your next chapter NOT this one if the new you interests her all well and good, work on you exercise MIND and body and stop the obsession. We all understand how hard that is BUT it’s not helping your cause in fact it’s hindering and acting as a push against you stop with the push behavior’s and let it go.
Mark.
DR'ing started March 2017
Don't blow the last bridge up from fantasy island, act "as if".
You have to drop the emotional rope you have tied around her. Stop focusing on something to do that will get a particular reaction from her. When you let go of all that stuff, that's when things will change.
THIS.
When you DB to manipulate her, it will never work. When you DB so that you can truly move on, that is when she will notice something is different.
Did, I've told this story before, but a huge turning point in my sitch came about 5 weeks in, when my W decided to work on her resume. (Her plan was to get a job, move out into her own place, and then file for D). She mentioned to me that there were some books she was interested in on resume writing and interviewing, since it had been 14 years since she worked. She was probably expecting me to say "no way are you using our money to forward you plan to leave". Instead I said "whatever you need". I didn't encourage it, I didn't discourage it. I said whatever you need and then went back to whatever I was doing at the time. I had landed in a place where, while I didn't want what she was doing, I was resigned to it. And even started to become ok with it.
I had even started working on the house and lining up a friend of ours that does finish carpentry, to get the house ready to sell. Despite her wanting me to keep the house, I told her I was planning on selling, splitting the earnings 50/50 with her, and potentially moving in with a single buddy of mine. I had started to get excited about this. I had already told her about my plan to do that (as well as a few other things, like switching congregations (even though she wouldn't be attending there anymore either), and she wasn't thrilled. Her easy-peasy plan had me staying in the house, my D living there, us playing family occasionally, and not much else changing for me and my D.
When she saw I was a) warming to the idea, b) forming my own plans for me, c) and no longer pressuring her or pursuing her, the wind came out of her sails on her plan. I even contacted an attorney etc.
All of this did 2 things:
1) It started to wake her up from her WW fog to realize that the D process wasn't going to be short and easy. But much longer and more arduous. And that she was going to have to do work rather than must sit back and have it happen.
2) That I was going to be fine without her, and that I was going to make changes that affected her and my D. Not necessarily bad changes, but changes none-the-less. She had this notion that only her and her situation would change (unrealistic due to the fog) and when she realize that her decision had unintended consequences for all three of us she started to reevaluate what she wanted.
The key was that if she saw my plans as pursuit and pressure, she never would have awoken to 1 & 2. Her thinking would have been "he is just threatening me with these things to get me to change my mind. But if I stick to my guns then I can get him to change his mind since is Nice Guy side will continue to try to please me." What she saw was that I was moving toward a "this will work out great! I'll be free to do a lot of things I can't do right now, and I'll move forward just fine without her" mentality.
It has to be real. And genuine. That is why GAL is so important. So focus on GAL. When you aren't with D, you are too busy for her. When you are with D, even then a lot of times you both are too busy for her. She knows that you will play house anytime she wants you too. She knows your NGS will 1) allow it and 2) be the nice guy that bends over backwards for her.
The touching and hugging is her manipulating YOU. Don't allow that. No touching and hugging as we are headed for D. Why do I want to touch and hug someone that has made it clear that she doesn't want to be with me?
Did, I've often thought you might have the worst case of NGS of anyone on this board. I do not say that to hurt you but to try to get you to recognize it. For instance:
Quote
A few weeks ago she bought some things for each of us and had said maybe I owe her a drink or dinner and I was all for that... now she is talking about me just paying her back.
WHAT?!?!? Are you paying for everything for her right now? Why would you owe her a penny when she is buying things for you with your own money??
Nice Guys finish last. Remember that.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Sandi- drop the emotional rope. I've been told she will only come around if I dont care about her. So thats what I have to do this is the part that seems counter-intuitive. But I will do it. What matters is what works.
Steve- NMMNG I'm reading again. Maybe youre right regard to me having a bad case of nice guy syndrome. Probably was a mistake but W is sick I went and picked up D3 and took her to the park for a couple hours. W had time to rest I got to spend time with D3 when I have work at night this week so only can have 1 overnight with my parents coming up to get her to bed.
I am doing GAL activities for me. Working out, hiking, meditating, going out, getting back into playing lacrosse traveling with friends. Going to the beach this weekend and booked a trip to Hawaii in October.
She does not bring up D at all but I understand this is because Im paying her money. She has no reason to since shes getting supported. She says she is confused says she doesnt know what she wants etc. It seems like BS. She has said that for a long time. Human nature to want what you can't have. No more hugs or touching or any of that. Just be happy around her but no pursuit whatsoever. If she wants to give me a hug either do the 1 arm pat on the back or just say no thanks.
If she asks about me paying her back when she bought home goods stuff using money I paid her out of support just say no?
I agreed to pay support for three months which will be through Sept, only one more payment. She has researched starting her business and seems concerned about the up front expenses. I made no guarantee or agreement that the support would continue after 3 months. She says it cant just end. The mediation attorney said think of it as child support. If we do divorce she would be entitled to money from my IRA / rental property etc. If she wanted to go after everything... After September Im not sure what I will do.
Consult attorney? When I brought up maybe we should just divorce a month or two ago she gets all sad and says is that what you want.
We are basically acting as if divorced but on good terms now. I won't reach out to contact her except for the time I will pick up D3 etc.
Time to man up, sack up... No More Mr Nice Guy!
H: 33 W:32 M: 5 T: 8 D: 4 BD: 6/2017 MO: 6/2017 House sold: 6/28/18 W wants to build friendship / relationship- 9/18 Paying $ support since 7/18. Physical Reconnect- 10/18 W Starts- IC / MC - 10/18
Good to hear about the GALing and having a trip to look forward to and can certainly help as I well know. Keep focusing on those things and less on the W.
I don't know anything about divorce law, but it sure sounds to me like you should speak to a knowledgeable attorney soon. That doesn't mean you have to file, but they can advise you of your rights and obligations. Continuing to pay your wife so that she can lead this single life seems like pure NGS to me. She won't come back because you are nice to her. As long as you keep supporting her like this your actions are telling her that you are still attached, that you aren't moving on, no matter what your words say.
And don't reimburse her for anything. That's her life, her problems, not yours.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
