Still here. Still not detached... (Part 3)

[JRuss]

I share pictures with mine, relate the odd "this cool/cute thing happened while they were with me" via text, and she does the same. Once a quarter or so, we have lunch to talk about how we think the kids are doing with the divorce and otherwise. We'll usually talk for a few minutes on drop offs/pickups, but mine are of the age now where we do most of our switches by picking them up from school, and I don't see her in those instances.

She can still be weird and prickly and at times is hopelessly not self-aware in her texts or e-mails, and I just ignore those.

The kids like that we are civil and collaborative, so that's what I try to do. If I loved her still, I don't think I'd be able to do it -- at least not well or without pursuit -- so I'm beyond glad I don't have to try to pull that off.

[AnotherStander]

I share pictures with mine, relate the odd "this cool/cute thing happened while they were with me" via text, and she does the same. Once a quarter or so, we have lunch to talk about how we think the kids are doing with the divorce and otherwise. We'll usually talk for a few minutes on drop offs/pickups, but mine are of the age now where we do most of our switches by picking them up from school, and I don't see her in those instances.

The kids like that we are civil and collaborative, so that's what I try to do.

Yes, this is largely how my XW and I are in regards to the kids as well (although our pickups are at our houses). I think most LBS's have to "go dark" for a while just to help themselves get over their WAS, but eventually most of us settle into this kind of a "peaceful coexistence" routine.

If I loved her still, I don't think I'd be able to do it -- at least not well or without pursuit -- so I'm beyond glad I don't have to try to pull that off.

Agreed, you do have to "get over" your feelings for your XW before this kind of a setup can work smoothly.

[Chris73]

Thanks all. So maybe I'm a little further along in this detachment thing than I thought.

The co-parenting situation that we have is very much like the ones described above. My W and I are in contact with each other about once/week on the average. Exchanges are quick, mostly over txt, and always revolve around the kids. In-person kid exchanges only happen once every 2 weeks on a Saturday afternoon. Otherwise, school drop offs and pick ups act as the go-between. In person, we are cordial to each other but I almost never talk to her about what's going on in my life. There have been times when she's related details about things going on with her. I listen and acknowledge but I don't comment much and I never offer any opinion unless she asks for one. We meet with a family counselor once/month to discuss the kids, but there has been no discussion about our relationship/marriage for over a year now.

I suppose this is about as dark as I can get with her. I mean, let's be honest, I really don't have a choice anyway. She decided to leave the marriage, move out, and have the kids live with her part-time. Other than litigating for more custody than I have now, there isn't much else for me to do. The feelings I still have for her pop up on a regular basis but I never let them show. As far as she's concerned, I'm moving on and no longer pursuing. I'm sure deep down she knows that I'm not happy with the way things turned out.

[slater]

Chris, thanks for coming back with an update! I followed your sitch pretty much from its beginning because BD was about the same time as mine (April 2016) and I felt the same way you did for the longest time...I remember you saying at one point that you weren't buying it, that your wife was full of $hit because you knew her so well (at the time). I felt the same way to some extent, knew my wife, although a WAS (not WW), thought she was putting on a good front but never thought she had the resolve to carry through...well, 2+ years later, living as a single parent much like you. She proved me wrong...I often want to tell her that, and say congrats, good job, you proved me wrong, now look at things! But I do think we both underestimated our wives, these women are either very stubborn or just plain done (or both). With young children, I will never understand it (in the absence of adultery, abuse, alcoholism, etc., which didn't exist in our sitches), it doesn't make alot of sense. The financial stress it has caused, the turmoil and the effect on the children, the stuff our children are necessarily denied, is hard to reconcile with someone not being as "happy" as they might otherwise be or think they should be...and I'm not all that convinced that my wilfe is any happier, she apparently was dating someone for a bit but appears to again be single.

As far as I can tell, that's the big difference between your sitch and mine, your ex-wife is with OM and has been for some time, having introduced the kids and all that, that hasn't yet happened on my end. I too have dated here and there but nothing too serious and no real interest for whatever reason. I would still reconcile if she was so willing but I do feel with the amount of time that has passed, I don't feel the same way. I'm not certain if she knows anymore that I would consider reconciliation. She might in fact believe I have moved on, I show no real interest. And on my end, I'm not thinking about her nearly as much as in year 1 and can spend time with her and the kids without getting super angry later while alone.

Recently, for the first time since BD, about 2 months ago, I just started being nicer to her, not "going dark" anymore, which I did for almost 1 year (and I'm talking about not even answering texts, numerous texts, for months, like nothing), turning down an invitation or two to hang out, etc. I let no cake-eating happen, with the kids or otherwise. We have 50/50. But after two years, that wasn't working, it just wasn't. And now we are in a much better place. Certainly no indication of reconciliation or even second thoughts (unless I'm really looking, really stretching) but it has only been a couple months. I fully expect she's wondering what's going on after a year or so of nothing. It's been a real 180. But again, if I was aware of OM, which I'm pretty sure doesn't exist right now, I would not have changed all that much from the no contact and shortness (sometimes rudeness because of the anger) that prevailed for so many months.

So we will see what happens, if anything. I'm in no rush to meet someone new, especially not to make life as a single parent easier. And she doesn't seem to be too interested in other men either, she never once mentioned the guy she was with and certainly didn't introduce the kids (only heard about it after it was over from a mutual friend).

I am still cautious about saying or doing anything that would let her know how I really feel because she had not said or done anything to show me that feels differently than she did two years ago. She has a couple times in the past 2 months revealed a familiar smile, a flirty smile, but that's it, she's very careful to tie the kids to all communication by text or email (although she has told me a few personal things lately about her day-to-day life...work, fitness stuff, what her friends are up to, etc.).

Anyway Chris, I thought you (and AnotherStander and Gordie) were (are) the great DB'ers on her (along with Maika and Joseph who are about a year behind us), one or more of you guys will find your ex-wife knocking on your door one day, of that I'm sure, and you will have a decison to make. For you, I expect yours will once the dude with the older kids fizzles out. I'm not saying this to give you any false hope because I know you are probably past that by now, but blended families are usually an epic failure. It's just not the same in my experience, having dated girls with kids from previous marriages (before this most recent relationship...we have 3 kids) and with many friends that have divorced and hooked up, usually temporarily, with divorced women with kids. There is a palpable difference felt as between biological children/parents and step-children/step-parents, both by parent to kids and kids to parent.

I thought your question above was about not wanting to go dark, but maybe you do and just don't know how to go about it with young children. I can tell you it is possible, but it wasn't working for me. She kept reaching out but there was no chance of any emotional reconnection.

[JRuss]

Sounds to me like you're doing well, Chris.

I went back and thought about my time line, and I first realized something was wrong in the Spring of 2014. I didn't get the official BD until almost a year later, so March 2015. So I'm now almost 3.5 years post-BD, and a full 4.5 years since I knew there was something bad happening. You're pretty much on a similar trajectory, most likely. You'll get there.

It might be out of place to say it on this site (devoted, as it is, to reconciliation), but don't underestimate sex and its healing powers. I am not talking about jumping right into a relationship with the first willing partner, but I'd be lying if I said getting it on with somebody knew who was really into it didn't jump start the healing.

[TBSakaJ9]

Isn't there a song called Sexual Healing???????

[NicoleR]

Hi Chris, I still haven't been able to read all of your thread but it does serve as a good example of how long these things can go on without any resolve. I guess one final hope would be if you decide that's enough, file for divorce, and suddenly your wife wakes up and realizes she's losing everything and finally wants to save the marriage. If she's in another relationship and that relationship is going well then she may not be inclined to save the marriage though. I guess in some cases there's really not much we can do. I look forward to following your next steps. I hope you soon gain some clarity and feel there's a clear path forward.

[sandi2]

I apologize if I have previously sent you the post by a former member explaining DBing detaching. I like this shorter version.


Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)

I. Detachment

Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.

When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.

It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.

We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).

We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)


PART II Detachment (found around here)

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.

* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my duty/job to do so.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and not to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

* Ability to allow S to be who he/she really is rather than who I want him/her to be.

IF & WHEN THESE ^^^ FACTORS ARE ADDRESSED, -

We could have a great friendship, or a great marriage. And those are treasures.

[AnotherStander]

Thanks all. So maybe I'm a little further along in this detachment thing than I thought.

The co-parenting situation that we have is very much like the ones described above. My W and I are in contact with each other about once/week on the average. Exchanges are quick, mostly over txt, and always revolve around the kids. In-person kid exchanges only happen once every 2 weeks on a Saturday afternoon. Otherwise, school drop offs and pick ups act as the go-between. In person, we are cordial to each other but I almost never talk to her about what's going on in my life. There have been times when she's related details about things going on with her. I listen and acknowledge but I don't comment much and I never offer any opinion unless she asks for one. We meet with a family counselor once/month to discuss the kids, but there has been no discussion about our relationship/marriage for over a year now.

I suppose this is about as dark as I can get with her. I mean, let's be honest, I really don't have a choice anyway. She decided to leave the marriage, move out, and have the kids live with her part-time. Other than litigating for more custody than I have now, there isn't much else for me to do. The feelings I still have for her pop up on a regular basis but I never let them show. As far as she's concerned, I'm moving on and no longer pursuing. I'm sure deep down she knows that I'm not happy with the way things turned out.

You do sound pretty detached Chris, all of that sounds great! Spot on as far as listening to her about personal things but not offering up anything in return. Still having feelings for her, well of course you do. I doubt that ever goes completely away. I still do for my XW on some level. Not to the point where I'm pining away for recon, but I still have some love for her and respect her.

I felt the same way to some extent, knew my wife, although a WAS (not WW), thought she was putting on a good front but never thought she had the resolve to carry through...well, 2+ years later, living as a single parent much like you. She proved me wrong...I often want to tell her that, and say congrats, good job, you proved me wrong, now look at things! But I do think we both underestimated our wives, these women are either very stubborn or just plain done (or both).

Yeah add me into that mix as well, LOL! I don't think I thought we'd ever really end up D'd, I thought we'd bounce back. And now, I think even if my XW was dying to recon she'd never say so because she is just that stubborn. I think to her it would be admitting she was wrong to friends and relatives and wouldn't be worth it because of that (even though I doubt anyone would care).

With young children, I will never understand it (in the absence of adultery, abuse, alcoholism, etc., which didn't exist in our sitches), it doesn't make alot of sense. The financial stress it has caused, the turmoil and the effect on the children, the stuff our children are necessarily denied, is hard to reconcile with someone not being as "happy" as they might otherwise be or think they should be...and I'm not all that convinced that my wilfe is any happier, she apparently was dating someone for a bit but appears to again be single.

Very similar to my sitch as well. My XW and I collectively had an impressive income, we really wanted for nothing. I would stop short of saying we were rich but we were quite well off. Now? Well I make more than she does and it's been a struggle. I haven't put money into savings since BD. She was never very good at budgeting so I know she's got to be struggling too. I just mentioned in another thread that per what my daughters have said she is still suffering with sadness and depression. I don't know what she thought she would gain through S and D, but it doesn't sound like she found it. But I don't know, maybe she really is happier this way.

I would still reconcile if she was so willing but I do feel with the amount of time that has passed, I don't feel the same way. I'm not certain if she knows anymore that I would consider reconciliation. She might in fact believe I have moved on, I show no real interest. And on my end, I'm not thinking about her nearly as much as in year 1 and can spend time with her and the kids without getting super angry later while alone.

You never know what might happen. I have a friend that reconciled with his XW after being divorced 10 years!!! They've been remarried for 3 years now I think. I'm not sure what the situation was that brought them back together, I'll have to ask him. Not sure if you've read the Married Man's Sex Life Primer but in it he talks about how you're at a distinct advantage with your W/ XW because at some point she was attracted to you enough to want to be married to you. You were her "type". There might be a lot of women out there that think you are too tall or too short or too hairy or too hairless or whatever, but to her you struck the right balance. So even though she walked away, you ARE still her "type". Chances are actually better she'll be attracted back to you some day then they are that she'll find another "you" out there.

I am still cautious about saying or doing anything that would let her know how I really feel because she had not said or done anything to show me that feels differently than she did two years ago. She has a couple times in the past 2 months revealed a familiar smile, a flirty smile, but that's it, she's very careful to tie the kids to all communication by text or email (although she has told me a few personal things lately about her day-to-day life...work, fitness stuff, what her friends are up to, etc.).

Well don't show your cards, but hey, it's been long enough that you might flirt a little and see how she responds. You can always pull back again. No harm as long as you don't have any expectations.

Anyway Chris, I thought you (and AnotherStander and Gordie) were (are) the great DB'ers on her (along with Maika and Joseph who are about a year behind us), one or more of you guys will find your ex-wife knocking on your door one day, of that I'm sure, and you will have a decison to make.

Thank you, that's very kind of you! And you have lumped me in with some great DB'ers And I agree, I have a feeling that some day some or maybe even all of us will be surprised to find our WAS's showing interest again. Unfortunately they usually wait so long that we well and truly have moved on, and allowing them back in seems almost as impossible as letting them go seemed before.

[TBSakaJ9]

I can honestly say that I would have a very, very, very, very hard time taking my XW back whenever I think about it my initial response is not a chance in hell. I don't know that I could really ever 100% honestly forgive her for everything she has done.