Rules for "Mr Nice Guy"

[Parkema]

Hello All,

Having read Sandi’s posts regarding the “Mr Nice Guy” and how it hit home hard at me due to it describing me to a tee I decided I needed to look into how I could try and make myself less nice..!
Having trawled the internet for inspiration I have compiled a list of 30 “rules” for us nice guys to follow which according to reference helps us in taking our “balls” back. I hope these help in some way.

RULES FOR THE “NICE GUY”

1. If it frightens you, do it. I don’t mean go out and skydive but if you feel a choice you make now will upset your WS BUT is right for you don’t be frightened of the consequences. Looking at your life now how much worse can it get..! It can only get BETTER.
2. Don't settle. Every time you settle, you get exactly what you settled for.
3. Put yourself first. Obviously our children are our priority and this must continue, being the best father is a given.
4. No matter what happens, you will handle it you can’t change the past or influence the future yet you’re still here…
5. Whatever you do, do it 100%, be committed to your choices even if they turn out wrong.
6. If you do what you have always done, you will get what you have always got, where has this got you?
7. You are the only person on this planet responsible for your needs, wants, and happiness.
8. Ask for what you want.
9. If what you are doing isn't working, try something different.
10. Be clear and direct, no more “whatever’s” or “I don’t mind” or “I’ll leave it up to you” you drive the relationship.
11. Learn to say "no" and mean it. If it’s right don’t be afraid to upset the one you love she will eventually learn to respect you.
12. Don't make excuses we need to be single-minded in the actions we do or have done.
13. If you are an adult, you are old enough to make your own rules. Why allow someone else dictate how you’re going to live your life, good relationships compromise.
14. Let people help you.
15. Be honest with yourself, know your failings and work on them.
16. Do not let anyone treat you badly. No one. Ever. If someone treats you bad especially in front of your children tell them how you feel about it then set your boundaries.
17. Remove yourself from a bad situation instead of waiting for the situation to change. Sometimes walking away can be powerful.
18. Don't tolerate the intolerable — ever.
19. Stop blaming. Victims never succeed.
20. Live with integrity. Decide what feels right to you, then do it.
21. Accept the consequences of your actions.
22. Be good to yourself.
23. Think "abundance" believe that your needs are important and there are people out there who are happy and willing to help you meet them.
24. Face difficult situations and conflict head on, learn to stick up for what you know to be right. Get a backbone re-capture your “balls”!
25. Don't do anything in secret, ANYTHING! Be transparent be honest.
26. Do it now.
27. Be willing to let go of what you have so you can get what you want.
28. Have fun. If you are not having fun, something is wrong.
29. Give yourself room to fail. There are no mistakes, only learning experiences, we are where we are.
30. Control is an illusion. Let go; let life happen drop the rope.

I have now printed these “rules” out and put them up on my wall so that I can go back and see where I’m failing, Unfortunately the nice guy is covertly programmed over years to be submissive almost from birth and feel to change is a major undertaking but one that is a must for us to successfully build a loving respectful relationship with our significant other.

I hope these help.

Mark.

[MoveFrwd]

Looks like a pretty good list. I'd recommend changing number 4 slightly. I think the whole point of DB is that your actions in the present DO influence the future. What you can't do is CONTROL the future. I understand the sentiment of looking at your feet in front of you and not miles down the road. And that it's also foolish to predict the future. But I think you calerrainly CAJ influence it.

[AnotherStander]

Mark, that's a great list! Have you read No More Mister Nice Guy? I ask because "nice guys" aren't totally submissive, they can be quite controlling and manipulative in subversive and damaging ways. I read the book years ago and am about 1/3 through reading it again. The above rules/ guidelines are great, but NG's need to reverse damaging behavior as well. We -can- be assertive and confident without being overbearing and manipulative.

[Tobias]

"We -can- be assertive and confident without being overbearing and manipulative."

Bingo! It was humbling that me at age 40 I am recognizing so many little things I was doing that were indeed falling in those traps and I totally thought I was acting like the perfect husband. Well I knew I wasn't perfect but I was using things she wasn't giving ME as reasons to not be a better person.

[Parkema]

Hi Stander,

Yes have read "No More Mr Nice Guy" as well as some other's as soon as Sandi described me to a T. Never saw it coming... I'm slowly introducing the new me to my WW and am being "rewarded" with anger and resentment, amazing how predictable the results were!

Kaizan I agree. What we do NOW will have a massive impact as to how our future will pan out, DR'ing as I see it is fundamentally about planning for our future life by the results of the actions we do today.

Mark.

[Chris73]

Hi Guys. This post is quite timely. I'm a life-long "nice guy" and could use some quick advice. I hope I'm not hijacking this thread too much...

W and I are separated. In a counseling session, we agreed not to expose our kids to new romantic relationships. Last night I found out that they spent Sunday with a group of people that included my W's OM and his kids.

Needless to say I was livid and so I confronted her this morning about it. She continues to deny that she is "dating" OM, but previously confirmed back in October that they had some inappropriate contact at a party after I found his number several dozen times on our cell phone logs.

So I told her, as politely as possible, that I would appreciate it moving forward if she would let me know the details of where she's taking the kids and who they will be with. I think I said something like, "What you do and who you're with aren't my concern anymore, but it is when the kids are involved." She said, OK.

But now, as I think back to the confrontation I feel like I said the wrong things. Telling her that I would like to know the details of the where/who of my kids when I'm not around seems controlling. And I feel like following up with her to apologize and tell her that I'm not trying to control her.

This seems like a "nice guy" dilemma. AM I being controlling? Should I take back my request for full disclosure? Is this just my reaction to feeling helpless? If I go back and apologize will I just appear wishy-washy? Sandi2 talks about how the WW loses all respect for her husband and I know that's where I am now. So I think going back and apologizing is the wrong move. I guess I just don't understand how to appropriately set boundaries in this situation...

[Tobias]

To me it sounds like introducing kids to ANYONE is a step that should be weighed. But maybe have these conversations ONLY during the counseling session. The MC will masterfully (if he or she is skilled) use words that will avoid the traps and pitfalls that make us fight.

I have a colleague here who cheated on his W but they have a S together and they have a very amicable R. His W. was THRILLED when he started befriending me and my W. She thought it offers stability to the S. and a good influence. Very funny that of course my W and I pretty much around that same time started our own sitch.

But I think regardless of where you and your W are and what the end result is, the two of you SHOULD work together in deciding everything around the kids. I don't have kids but to me that is a boundary that has to be respected. For the kids' sake in fact. They need consistency.

But use the counseling session to discuss this.

[TBSakaJ9]

Yep...wrong move they are your kids as well and she needs to respect your wishes.

[Chris73]

Thanks guys. I think I'm going to let this one sit for a while instead of rushing in to apologize or redefine what I said.

That's what I ALWAYS do.

6. If you do what you have always done, you will get what you have always got, where has this got you?

[AnotherStander]

But now, as I think back to the confrontation I feel like I said the wrong things. Telling her that I would like to know the details of the where/who of my kids when I'm not around seems controlling. And I feel like following up with her to apologize and tell her that I'm not trying to control her.

This has come up plenty of times before, and it's a tough one to answer. It depends on what class of character she's hanging out with. A lot of WAS's "affair down" and sometimes waaaaaay down. If you're talking alcohol or drug use with the potential for abuse, then that is clearly a huge concern.

I will tell you my W's OM is someone I knew casually and was definitely someone I considered a "good guy" before all of that mess. In fact he was trying to talk my W out of leaving the M I found out later (I think for him they were just friends, for her it was an EA). Anyway, early on I asked myself, outside of my sitch, was OM someone I would trust around my kids? And the answer was yes. So I didn't ask for transparency from her, I just trusted that she wouldn't put the kids in harm's way. My W wasn't MLC, she was very responsible throughout. Maybe your's isn't, that's for you to determine.

Is this just my reaction to feeling helpless?

Now THAT is a valid question to ask yourself. Are you really concerned about the kids or are you just doing this as a way to "get back" at W for leaving you? Our emotions are all over the place for months after BD and our intentions are not always honest or honorable.

I guess I just don't understand how to appropriately set boundaries in this situation...

If you think about it, really the only boundary you can set is to threaten to fight for more custody, or full custody. This is something warranted if there's any evidence the OM might be abusive. But if you just don't like him because he's the OM but he's otherwise a responsible adult, well you're setting a boundary you can't really enforce in my opinion. You're separated, you've got to accept that she is going to date and sooner or later expose the kids to that person. I'm not saying you have to -like- it, but you do have to accept it.