I’ve been piecing for just over a year now and I want to share what that has been like.
As a quick summary, my W is a triathlete. She had a 5 month A with her coach who is M. I discovered the PA after it had been going on for 2 months by hiding an audio recorder in her car. What I heard devastated me. I took a week to think about it, to decide if it was something I could forgive and I sought counsel from friends, my IC and an attorney. I then confronted my W and kicked her out of the house. She had already been planning on S at some point in the coming weeks but the S started immediately when I confronted her. She told me the A had ended and I thought we were working on our M but I discovered 2 1/2 months later that it started up again after a brief hiatus so I filed for D and served her papers. Three days later, the A came to an abrupt end when OM confessed to his W. A week later, we started piecing.
The biggest mistake I think I made in the whole process was taking my W back too quickly. Even though I filed for D, she never really “lost” me. At the first sign of true remorse, I took her back. Members of this forum encouraged my to not stop the divorce proceedings. But I didn't listen. Although I did want to begin R my M, I should have told her “Too bad, you made your choice” and at least made her sweat it for a little while. I should have made her work hard to earn her place back in our M. I don't want to imply that she isn't doing any of the required work; she is. But I made the path home too easy for her.
Early on in the piecing process, things were complicated by OM’s W. She met with my W just 3 days after OM confessed and my W had the opportunity to apologize. I’m sure that was a horrible experience for my W. Things got weird when it became apparent that OM’s W felt that it was appropriate for us to “all heal together.” She even told my W that eventually it would be fine for my W to come back over to their house to begin training again (he trains athletes from his home). That was ABSOLUTELY not ok with me. I made that very clear. But it took months for my W to realize that would never work. OM’s W continued to contact my W off and on for sometime. I eventually met with OM’s W and talked with her for 3 hours. I had a cease and desist letter, drawn up by an attorney, in my pocket instructing her not to contact my W anymore. I ended up not giving it to her because I felt that she understood that I did not want her contacting my W. She contacted my W again and so I had to tell her that if she contacted my W again, we would file a restraining order. With the exception of some minor bumps in the road, she has stopped contacting my W.
My W started sleeping at our house full time after about the first month of piecing and moved back home by the end of the second month. The first month was really good and my W continued to express genuine remorse. But I think in the second month of piecing, she started going through the withdrawals from the A and her attitude has been different since then. I feel that she is really struggling to find the meaning behind the A and in coming to terms with the fact that it was built on a fantasy and that it wasnt real life. The emotions she felt were real but they weren't sustainable. She was addicted to the high that she got from it.
I have read MANY books on recovering from infidelity. She has not and I don't think she understands how badly she damaged our R. I don't think she understand how badly this hurt me. I would have liked to have seen her take the initiative and seek out all the books I was reading and talk to me about what she read in them. She didn’t. I could have asked her to read the books with me but in her mind, if I did that, she would have seen it as me saying “Dont forget about what you did, you’re not good enough, you’re not doing enough, read these book you sorry POS!”
For the past 8 months or so, we have not really talked about the A but that has recently changed. I have LOTS of unanswered questions and we now have weekly meetings where I can talk about my questions. For instance, until our first talk last week, I didn't even know how the A started. I didn't know what was said, what was done that lead up to them deciding to make it physical. She has been answering my questions however not without hesitation. She feels that if I have truly forgiven her, then I wouldn't want to keep dragging up the past and wanting to know all these details. I’ve had to explain to her that it has nothing to do with forgiveness and that I need to have my questions answered so that I’m not left guessing what really happened. In our second conversation this week, when she thought I was going to ask again about something that we discussed last week (I wasn’t), she got angry and told me “I will not discuss something again that we’ve already talked about and that SHE would decide if she would answer specific questions.” I was able to keep my cool and explain that doesn't work for me. I was able to pull out a book and read a passage that explained why the betrayed spouse needs to have questions answered. Her demeanor seems to have changed since then. When we’ve had these first couple of talks, I’ve been able to keep my cool and hear things that are hurtful to me but not retaliate with anger. I’m hoping to show her that she can tell me everything and not be attacked as a result of hearing these things. I’m working HARD to show her that she can trust me not to hurt her or lash out at her with the things she discloses to me.
As for trust, its obvious that the betrayed spouse will take a long time to be able to trust again. But I’ve also learned that my W doest trust me either. Her fear is that I will never get over what she has done. The result is that she has not poured into the R as much as I have because she fears that no matter what she does, it won't be good enough. She’s afraid to make herself vulnerable to me for fear that I will walk out the door regardless of what she does. I can understand how that is a legitimate fear.
As for me, I’m a changed person. I’m no longer the sorry excuse for a husband and father that I was for most of our marriage. I used to be moody, critical, uninvolved, judgmental and I let myself go physically. I dug deep to shine the light on all my many undesirable traits and began working to change those things. I’m not perfect; never will be. But I’m committed to being a better person because I want to be a better person, for ME. The side effect of that is that all my friends and family now have access to a better quality LiM.
Piecing is hard, hard, hard. Things are not magically better just because the A has ended. In fact, that's when the real work begins. You will endure the trauma of the infidelity daily for some period of time. You will have a few great days with your S only to be back down in the depths of despair the next day. You will be angry and resentful one day and loving and forgiving the next. You’ll go from being excited about the chance to make your M better than it ever was to wondering if its even worth it.
My advice for piecing? Be patient. This will take a long time. I’m expecting it to take me at least 2 years to get over the bulk of the trauma. Go to MC Be vulnerable with your S and encourage them to be vulnerable with you Read lots of books on recovering from infidelity and encourage your S to read them with you. Talk about them together. Go on dates. Spend as much time together as you can. Dont be afraid to be the one that “goes first.” If you’re waiting on your S to do or say something that will improve the R or move towards healing, you may end up being disappointed. Take the initiative. If you are hurting and angry, you can choose to stay curled up in the fetal position or you can choose to seek out your S and put your arms around them. Talk about the A. Find out what needs the OM/OW was meeting for your S. Discover your role in making the M vulnerable to an A. Talk about that and take ownership of it.
LiM
Me: 48 y/o W: 47 y/o Together: > 20 yrs BD: Dec '15, then S 2nd BD: Mar '16, then I filed for D April '16: started piecing
Thanks for sharing all of these details. It is always encouraging and scary to hear of those piecing. As a LBS, you want nothing more than the opportunity to try and yet when you get there it is incredibly hard work.
My W and I made it through our first hurdle 4 years ago and I have no idea if we'll get another chance to piece this time. All I do know is how slow and slow and slow it will be and how much work it is.
Best of luck as you continue to heal yourself and your M.
Me 42, Wife 39; Married 16; Together 17; Kids: D13, S10 Wife asks for Divorce: 03/19/13 Reconcile: 07/07/13 Round 2 Starts: 02/19/17 Apartment Life: 04/21/17 PA Confirmed: 05/23/17
As for me, I'm not sure about my questions. I also have lots of them, but will it really help me dragging up bad memories? And will it create more bad memories?
I have a general timeline of her affair, I'm sure if I pressed her, she'd tell me stuff I didn't know. Due to my mental health, I'm not sure I'd be able to handle more information.
My W has told me it was 99% emotional and one physical encounter that she said disgusted her. I suspect more, but again, do I wanna know?
With my W, I didn't change until I found out. I do remember a time when she was in her affair (and I didn't know it at the time) - my W said something similar to yours, where she said she doesn't think we're going to make it. I specifically said, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass".
Even her threat of ending the marriage didn't change my mind. Hell, I remember when I first found out, I consulted divorce lawyers because I was done. That was my excuse to end it. Two weeks without her home and I started to rethink my mentality. I probably should've done what you also should've done, keep her out more. But at the time I did start to miss her and decided to reconcile.
I'll probably post more in my thread.
Me: 52 Her: 48 2D 26 & 16 M: 25 years (together 30) EA/discovered by accident Valentines day 2016 Admitted SOME physical but no IC. We know that's a lie. Status - tryin to R
I did tell her about the audio recorder after we started piecing. Up until that point, she had no idea how I discovered anything. The way that I found out that the A was still going on during our S was while trying to install drivers for a new printer onto my daughters laptop. The laptop used to belong to my W. When I went to install the drivers, I saw that the computer still had an account for my W on it. I logged in to that account and was able to read her emails and her FB login credentials had been saved to the account. I was able to read all the FB Messenger messages that they had been sending to each other during our S. That gave all the proof I needed that it was in fact still very much ongoing.
Me: 48 y/o W: 47 y/o Together: > 20 yrs BD: Dec '15, then S 2nd BD: Mar '16, then I filed for D April '16: started piecing
Lim, I am so glad you started this thread! I can relate to a lot of what you (and Storm) say. I wonder if most people in piecing say that they let the spouse back too soon (easily). I could say the same thing. At this point, I am not even sure that matters anymore. What matters most is that both people want to be in the M and will do whatever it takes. So as much as the LBS wants this chance (and I did too), really, you only want that chance with a willing and remorseful partner.
Your list is great advice to others. Yes, it is hard work. What makes the work (of rebuilding the M) so hard, is that the triggers frequently get in the way. I think it is a good idea to set up times to talk about things, and not just bring them up based on emotions--that can go sour very fast--because more harm can be done than good! I agree with the MC too. As Storm also wrote, the MC has to be very good. Quality and experience is everything. A lot of therapists will list MC in their qualifications (or services they offer) but I would suggest a C that ONLY does MC. It truly is a specialty.
The questions of how many details do I want to know or need is TOUGH! Perhaps there are gender differences too? My H admits that he doesn't think he could handle the thought of me with another man (another reason he thought I could never see past it). For me, that my H's OW is not attractive (nor her body) I must admit helped. Also, he was clear from the beginning--even when he left--that there was never any depth to their emotional connection. She essentially admired him and made him feel good about himself. He sees now how flawed his perspective was.
I struggled with my mind wondering things a lot in the first year and second year at times. Now, I honestly don't care. I also have eased up on my bitterness towards her (we were so called "friends" for years before) and I just pity someone as shallow as her. I know that sounds somewhat arrogant, but I do. I don't see her (nor does my H) as a person with depth or integrity.
I would definitely suggest Retrouvaille at this point (although I am not finished). We even had people that came from out of town and are doing post-sessions online. It cannot solve M problems, but the techniques we are learning our invaluable. I don't want to share details because I don't want to taint anyone's' own experiences with it. We are learning detailed tools on how to communicate, listen, and have genuine compassion for one another. As this continues to evolve, the other issues and troubleshooting naturally become much more manageable. I would even say that the process is enjoyable. I can tell how much my H is willing to change and committed to me as the weeks go by and we continue the work. If you are Christian, I imagine you would find even more meaning in the program.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Because of what I heard on the audio recorder and what I read in their FB messenger messages, I'm already horrifically aware of what acts were done between the two of them. So when we talk, I'm not asking questions about what they specifically did. I'm asking more about the how and why. I want to know what was going on in their heads while all this was going on.
The reason is that I want to shine the light of day on the illicit acts. So long as all of that remains in her head, a sense of mystery and intrigue can remain. If I can get her to share all of that with me, then it loses its power. It loses its magic. Once its been spoken, its no longer a secret between just her and OM. I am now a part of it and I feel that in effect minimizes anything that she may still feel is "special" about what happened.
I don't know if it actually works that what but that's my thought process behind it.
I'm intrigued by Retrouvaille and would be interested in doing it but I don't think that's in the cards for right now. Maybe in the future. Both my W and I went through a very intensive program call Pathways. I would highly recommend that to any person struggling with any sort of serious trauma or hurt in their life.
Me: 48 y/o W: 47 y/o Together: > 20 yrs BD: Dec '15, then S 2nd BD: Mar '16, then I filed for D April '16: started piecing
I agree with the letting someone back in too early... I just don't think they get the full effect of what they have done. I think it is good to let them sweat. I think my WH sweat some when, during his first A, I was seeing a L and would no longer let him in the home based on the L's advice over WH abandoning us. I contacted the OW, and after a couple times, she freaked out and backed out of the A. So of course, my WH came crawling back around and I was so afraid he would go out and start a new A, that after a few hours of talking, I let him back in our home and we began piecing with a MC.
My MC told us it was normal for me to have questions because I had been through a traumatic ordeal and he should answer those questions, even though it was hard, because it helped establish trust. MC told my H to be patient while I learned to trust again, however long it takes He seemed to do this only days, before he felt like I should be over it.
We continued to piece until we got comfortable once more and he abandoned us again 11 months later.
Also, I like the theory of putting me in with their memories, that it would help it lose power. Not sure if that was a temporary effect in my situation, because now my husband wants out of the marriage for good.
But... in my case, H still has feelings for the person he had an affair with over 4 years ago. Most of the time he won't admit it, but I can tell. We rarely talk about the A anymore, but anytime her name is brought up, he can't help but smile even though he tries to hide it. Plus, while he was drinking the other night while we were on vacation, he told me he felt something with her he never felt with me. He said it was like lightning stuck him. He was saying this while giving me the ILYBINILWY speech so I do not know how much credibility it has.
Because of what I heard on the audio recorder and what I read in their FB messenger messages, I'm already horrifically aware of what acts were done between the two of them. So when we talk, I'm not asking questions about what they specifically did. I'm asking more about the how and why. I want to know what was going on in their heads while all this was going on. Some people are helped by knowing all the details, others see it as "horrific awareness" (and I'm in that boat. I blocked h on fb). I don't want those internal films playing in my head. But that's me.
IF I were piecing again, before even discussing a recon (which comes before piecing) I would need to know that h learned why he did what he did.
That^^ would be mandatory before even any discussion of a recon were to happen. H himself would have to learn something that HE wanted to change AND then that he worked to change. Otherwise it's pretty much a guarantee that the behavior will repeat.
In my case it took 10 years but here I am. H did not authentically change. He put a spin on things in his head that I chose not to explore fully. I allowed that b/c in the end, I suppose I did not want to know that I had made a mistake in reconciling and so I saw only things that validated my choice to stay.
Knowing details is an intensely personal choice, obviously. I think MWD touches on that in her book, a lot. And a good mc would make sure you really wanted to KNOW...and some do. I get that. And To each their own.
The reason is that I want to shine the light of day on the illicit acts. So long as all of that remains in her head, a sense of mystery and intrigue can remain. If I can get her to share all of that with me, then it loses its power. It loses its magic. Once its been spoken, its no longer a secret between just her and OM. I am now a part of it and I feel that in effect minimizes anything that she may still feel is "special" about what happened. if this^^ helps YOU, then go for it.
I don't know if it actually works that what but that's my thought process behind it. I'm intrigued by Retrouvaille and would be interested in doing it but I don't think that's in the cards for right now. Maybe in the future. I think it's a great program (which, btw, does not require you to be Catholic or even Christian).
Even now, I see it as a great resource. It helped us and for a time, h saw his actions in a true light; and he felt and expressed remorse. It is for couples with their marriages in crisis, though. Not individuals.
And we did not keep in the program for follow up later - b/c of logistical issues, which now seem laughably silly.
Both my W and I went through a very intensive program call Pathways. I would highly recommend that to any person struggling with any sort of serious trauma or hurt in their life.
I've heard of Pathways. I thought it was aimed more at mental/behavioral health issues, which I guess do play a role in a lot of these marital crises. (I'm not criticizing it, btw. I think it sounds super helpful).
But if the WAS isn't seeking help, well, that's a big part of the problem isn't it?
In Trees case, I worry most about her personal safety and her kids.
Trees, your h is not well and he's not seeking treatment. Your h has a pattern. And you cannot change HIS pattern.
The thing is, you have a pattern too. And you can change yours. Keep your focus on that^^ and create a path forward that shows you a better way.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
