Lurker ready to ask for help with WW/WAW sitch!

[RunRec]

I read up on all of Maximus' stuff. You were right, lots of good lessons in there. Really working towards real detachment, and you're right. At this point in the MR I'm not even sure how I would set a true hard boundary. I'm not 100% on what would even qualify as a deal breaker at this point. I can see how a weak boundary would be less effective than no boundary at all. Thanks for the advice. Still very interested to hear anything else specific, outside of actually detaching doing 180's and GAL.

[Cristy]

I'm not 100% on what would even qualify as a deal breaker at this point. I can see how a weak boundary would be less effective than no boundary at all. Thanks for the advice. Still very interested to hear anything else specific, outside of actually detaching doing 180's and GAL.

Hello RunRec,

I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.

Big congratulations on being sober for 9 months! Keep up the good work!

Do you feel like you have tried lots of different things in search of the one thing that will work the best?

Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.

Cristy

Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[RunRec]

Thanks Cristy! I don't know that I can afford to do phone coaching at this time, but thanks.

Things continue to be hot and cold. We had a very emotional MC session on Tuesday morning, but a good talk about it Tuesday night. Wednesday we took our sons out to dinner for my youngest boy's birthday and we had a really fun time. W took a bunch of pictures, posted them to Facebook, and then tagged me in the album (which was a surprise).

Later that night we had our marriage ministry introductory class. She seemed very positive and in a good mood to begin the class, but by the end she was obviously not. The last thing we were supposed to do was fill out an informational card and the last thing we were supposed to do is rate our marriage between 1-10. She didn't want to rate our marriage, and unfortunately I pushed her to do it so she finally just rated it a 1. The rest of the evening she was obviously upset, but in a 180 I just let it go and pretended like everything was ok.

I'm frustrated because what I should have done is supported her and said if she didn't want to rate it don't rate it, but I really want to get the most out of counseling and marriage ministry so I wanted her to do it. It was controlling, and probably set me back some.

Otherwise I'm just working on detaching, which works sometimes and doesn't work other times. I wish I could bottle it up when I feel truly detached from the outcome, and just take a sip every time anxiety takes over. I continue to keeep a PMA and remind myself that I'm at the very beginning of this journey, not to believe anything I hear and 50% of what I see, and that while it's easy for me to feel sorry for myself that things aren't progressing on my time I have many things to be grateful for. She's interacting with me positively on a daily basis. She's going to counseling. She's going to marriage ministry. I have read stories of worse off relationships being restored, so I consider myself blessed to have these tools at my disposal. I just have to continue to pray, work on myself, and keep that PMA and hope for the best.

[RunRec]

It's been almost a week since I posted and unfortunately things have completely changed. Friday night I was snooping on her cell phone logs (I know, I know) and called her out about a conversation I didn't approve of. The conversation turned into a fight, and turned into her declaring herself "done". At the end of the night, after all the fighting, she said she was 100% out and would be filing paperwork on Tuesday. I have made clear throughout the process that as soon as the marriage was officially dead (i.e. papers filed) I would be moving out immediately. She still relies on me a lot in the home, and hasn't had to feel the full effects of what me moving out would look like. She said she understood, and she was sure.

I came to her on Saturday and told her how sorry I was for pursuing and snooping, and for all the hurtful things I said while we were fighting. I told her I knew she wasn't going to change her mind, but I wanted to make sure she knew that no matter what happens with our marriage I need her to be a positive member of my life. I asked her not to make any definitive decisions from a raw emotional place.

Sunday and Monday went extremely well. We spent time together, laughed, talked about everything EXCEPT the R. Monday night I decided to have one last talk with her before MC on Tuesday and laid out that I'm coming around on the idea of us being friends, and that I'd like to stay in MC with the sole purpose of reconnecting as friends, reversing our negative interaction cycle, and if any romantic feelings showed up then so be it but that wouldn't be my agenda. She rejected the idea and said she is just plain done. I told her I know how hard it is to believe that from me, but I wanted her to let me prove it through my actions. I asked her to give me one week to show her I was serious, and she said she didn't need a week. She is just done. I was devastated.

We had another major fight, and didn't get to bed until late. I didn't sleep hardly at all. She still wanted to ride together to counseling and for the first time in this entire sitch we took the entire car ride without me saying a word or even looking in her general direction. I couldn't bear to speak to her or look at her. My emotions were so strong I didn't know if I would break down and cry or scream at her. I knew I needed to wait until we were with the counselor so he could help me.

Once in the counselor's office I didn't compose myself near as well as I wanted to. I started to lose my temper and raise my voice, and our MC smartly asked her to wait in the lobby so we could talk one on one. He calmed me down, worked some magic, and we were able to bring the W back in. I gave what was probably the most magical speech I've ever given to her. I explained to her how sorry I was and how these emotions over losing her can cause me to lose control, and I'll never give up on us being in love again but either way she'll always mean everything to me even as a friend. I don't recall my exact wording but she ended up in tears (the good kind) and said she completely understands and forgives me. I explained to her and the MC how I understand how she feels, and I'm not saying she's wrong to feel that way. My only reason for being apprehensive is that we're only 3 months from the BD, and I have spent the entire 3 months in varying stages of desperate pursuit and have given her absolutely no room to breathe or think.

I proposed a trial separation. I told her I would head out of state to stay with my parents. My dad owns his own business and actually is desperate for some help right now, so I can go stay with them rent free and get paid far more than I'm making now to work for him. This would relieve some of our financial burdens, give me a safe emotional place to work on my 180's and GAL stuff, and give her a break from me. This would also give her a trial run of what life as a single mom is going to look like without me available to help.

I proposed one month, but the kids are in school until June 26th and ultimately unless she asks me to come back sooner I'm going to plan on 6 weeks so I can fly back the week before they are out of school. I've already let her know if she moves forward with the D I will be moving out of state permanently. I'm going to give her full custody of the kids, and I'll take them for summers and we'll switch up holidays year to year (if I remain out of state). This will be another wakeup call if she decides when I come back that she wants to move forward with the D, she will have to wrap her head around not seeing the kids for the whole summer. She's never been away from them for more than a week or two at a time.

While I absolutely don't want to be separated, I honestly think this is my personal last resort technique. I wasn't handling the in house separation in a way that was attracting her back, so this should help me to truly detach and focus on myself. She'll either miss me and decide she wants to try again, or be validated in her desire to be divorced. I told her that at the end of this trial period I'm not asking her to commit to the marriage. If she commits to counseling to save the marriage, I will move back home. I also told her that the 4-6 weeks isn't a deadline. If she's not ready to make a decision in late June we can extend the trial separation but I will be bringing the boys back with me if we're still undecided.

So there it is. I'd love any advice I can get, or being pointed to any resources on how to handle this next phase of my sitch. My thinking is to 100% stop initiating any contact that doesn't directly relate to the kids. I'll be cordial, but short on words if and when she contacts me for anything unrelated to the kids. I will absolutely refuse any talks abou the MR. If she starts trying to talk about the R (very long odds), I have considered just politely telling her that I don't think it's good for us to discuss the R outside of counseling so if she'd like to get started with MC again I can make arrangements to come back early.It will be SUPER easy for me to do GAL stuff because my hometown has more friends and cheap accessible activities than where I'm at now by a wide margin. I'll be sure to post about all the exciting GAL activities I'm up to on Facebook. That way if any interested parties are concerned I'm shriveled up somewhere in a ball, they'll have proof to the contrary!

Any encouragement in the form of success stories after similar situations (WAS, infidelity, trial sep) would be much appreciated. I'm trying hard to keep my faith in God, and keep a PMA about our long term relationship prospects. Like MWD says, it's not over until it's over! She didn't file!

[25yearsmlc]

I don't know the other programs or approaches you are using, so I cannot comment on them.

I do know that many approaches vary, and so to me, it's best to only use one at a time. Like a "control" group,, so you'll know better now to monitor.

A lot of approaches conflict with DBing too. But I love your brave assessment of your program. I'm personally familiar with the 12 step program and know dry drunks are not necessarily big improvements for the family. You are relatively new to sobriety so all I can do now is applaud your efforts and naturally, encourage you to get back to some meetings.

Here is one thing I know **No matter what marriage retreat or personal growth workshops I've attended, LOVED and or gotten profound lessons from,

if I don't keep at it, I will positively backslide.

Anyhow, In my opinion (and not all DBers will agree b/c they have been betrayed by infidelity and will solely focus on the A),

you realized that you had serious issues to work on, and she had been doing the heavy lifting in the marriage & family for years.

But now that she's having an EA, (or more?) you want your whole focus to be on the boundary you set, and multiple tests of her "waywardness". Your focus seems to be on categorizing what she is and how to predict outcomes on HER end...

You yourself were wayward and abusive, (per you,) so naturally she's not too interested in risky conversations.

Is this^^^ a fair assessment?

[25yearsmlc]

you might want to stay OFF of FB for a number of reasons.

Check out advice by others. It's a risk you may not be aware of and you can be more mysterious by NOT doing that.

Plus it's easy to misinterpret other people's highlight reels and btw, you will see HERS

I blocked my h and I've had a very long m

[RunRec]

"You yourself were wayward and abusive, (per you,) so naturally she's not too interested in risky conversations."

Absolutely a fair assessment. She still doesn't feel safe when we talk because of our negative interaction cycle. We're the classic pursuer/distancer. Through the last 3 months post BD we've improved very modestly but still get trapped in it whenever anything major happens.

I definitely have been focused on her infidelity and I think that's largely because her lying and being unfaithful is my only real resentment with her. She's been an incredible and forgiving and supportive partner our entire relationship. Her worst marital trait to me is that she doesn't like to talk about her feelings but a lot of that is certainly a byproduct of my being unsafe to talk to.

All that said, I've leaned more about what constitutes a boundary and understand how I was attempting to control her with "boundaries" rather than actually communicating what I needed to protect myself in the marriage. When we had our talk today about the trial sep I told her "my only boundary is marital faithfulness. I don't want to control you at all, but I can't be in an open marriage and I couldn't take the pain of another affair." and I left it at that. I'm literally in sudden death overtime here, so I just have to hope she honors that boundary but not let the anxiety consume me. It'll either happen or it won't but this entire thing is out of my hands now. I can only work on myself and make myself the best possible version of me I can be. I figured mentioning it once and dropping it constitutes a 180 since in the past I would have dwelled on it, and felt the need to reiterate and speak specifically.

[25yearsmlc]

"You yourself were wayward and abusive, (per you,) so naturally she's not too interested in risky conversations."

Absolutely a fair assessment. She still doesn't feel safe when we talk because of our negative interaction cycle. We're the classic pursuer/distancer. Through the last 3 months post BD we've improved very modestly but still get trapped in it whenever anything major happens.

I definitely have been focused on her infidelity and I think that's largely because her lying and being unfaithful is my only real resentment with her.

"don't judge her by the worst thing she's ever done" --- Matrix

(You might want to look up his post to Bluewave on her thread...seriously, it'd be a great idea to do that.)

Matrix had a wife who had an affair. They reconciled but he would or could not let it go...even after she did everything to compensate for it. ( I don't know if he had the same issues to work on in himself as you do, but he was not flawless)

and he held it over her head like the sword of Damacles and he resented her mightily...
for a long time... and over time, naturally she got tired of having to prove herself repeatedly and being punished for her one big mistake. She was hurt by him losing sight of his own shortcomings, and just honing in on the one big negative thing she did...and his never letting go of it ---till finally, she let go of him...

So your wife has done ONE wrong to you, and that is your focus, correct?

But you are here trying to save your m... so think about ^^that, okay?

And hey, dig deep. Because if you don't think you can forgive her, then let her go now. I mean, why waste time on her end or yours? Move on...

but you may Also want to examine how or if forgiveness was modeled in your childhood...


She's been an incredible and forgiving and supportive partner our entire relationship.

So she has set an example you don't want to follow or don't know how, or what?

I get that you want to feel safer than you do now, I feel like "boundaries" you are harping on are also set ups for failure and I am not sure they'll help you attain your goal. In fact, what would you say IS your goal?

Her worst marital trait to me is that she doesn't like to talk about her feelings but a lot of that is certainly a byproduct of my being unsafe to talk to.

are you reading this^^? Runrec, you have to own your stuff to work on and though some will say "Affairs are always wrong", in my opinion they are not all alike.

I know you are in a pain...but you have to Stay in your sandbox and do your work.



All that said, I've leaned more about what constitutes a boundary and understand how I was attempting to control her with "boundaries" rather than actually communicating what I needed to protect myself in the marriage.

SHE doesn't feel safe in the m, which you admit you are the cause of.

But here you are talking about what you need to feel safe.

I get that, totally. Your ego took a huge blow...but do you have any thought about what SHE might need to feel safe with you, given that she doesn't?


When we had our talk today about the trial sep I told her "my only boundary is marital faithfulness. I don't want to control you at all,

sorry but, these^^ things don't match. You can tell her YOU won't live in an open marriage and then stop telling her what you don't want HER to do...and then pretend it's not about control. To me it looks exactly Iike control.

Look - despite whatever semantics are at issue ^^ here, the bottom line is you are setting yourself up for more heartache -and losing sight of your own work.

So, You are here trying to save your m, or to stop your w from an affair?

but I can't be in an open marriage and I couldn't take the pain of another affair." and I left it at that. I'm literally in sudden death overtime here,


how do you think you could have restructured the conversation so you don't now feel you are "literally in sudden death overtime"? Do you see anything you might have done differently?

so I just have to hope she honors that boundary but not let the anxiety consume me.

the second part is what you control...

It'll either happen or it won't but this entire thing is out of my hands now. I can only work on myself and make myself the best possible version of me I can be.

correct


I figured mentioning it once and dropping it constitutes a 180 since in the past I would have dwelled on it, and felt the need to reiterate and speak specifically.

There's NO need to repeat it.

The more you issue ultimatums, the more you corner yourself into a spot you don't really want

and frankly, I'm not even sure you are really seeing the big picture here.


Here is what a woman here on these boards, once wrote to a LBH. (He wasn't her LBH). Anyhow, the LBH wondered why his WalkAway wife had not yet broken it off with OM and returned to the marriage, bc he had finally made a lot of needed changes & wanted to reconcile.

See if this resonates with you, or if your w could someday have written the letter...


Dear LBH

When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M. I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than.-

One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H.

Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me would lessen him so much in my eyes. So, I can see where your W is coming from.

When you've been mistreated to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your S - and those uncertainties that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.

Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated, does not even scratch the surface of the years, the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated for such a stretch of time.

And I promise you that while you have recommitted and worked for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes, where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought.

Because when you build up hope again and again and again in your H and he crushes it again and again and again, you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope. You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail. You are taught that you will never be what he wants - and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality.

And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to "win".

Even today you admit that you are not sure that you don't just want to "win".

Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her - and really have recommitted to her, but you actually just want to win, you'll put her through hell.

[25yearsmlc]

Runrec, I want to commend you on the deep digging you are doing and the way you want to own your stuff. You seem brave enough to do the inward work needed to become the best man you can....and I want to applaud that.

I really mean that.

It's been almost a week since I posted and unfortunately things have completely changed. Friday night I was snooping on her cell phone logs (I know, I know) and called her out about a conversation I didn't approve of.

your wording is a little unusual. Was the conversation sexual, or wildly inappropriate?


The conversation turned into a fight, and turned into her declaring herself "done".


So, what would you do differently if it happened again? Or would you stop snooping, like MWD preaches?

The only snooping that makes sense to ME, is if it's a 100% certain deal breaker and then it's all over. Boom, mic drop.

But when you know there are things that don't quite make it black and white, why bother doing that, at this point?


At the end of the night, after all the fighting, she said she was 100% out and would be filing paperwork on Tuesday. I have made clear throughout the process that as soon as the marriage was officially dead (i.e. papers filed) I would be moving out immediately.

WHY do that and WHY tell her? And filing for divorce does NOT make it over. 1/3 of divorces filed in my state, fade away after 6 months b/c neither spouse completes the work to finalize it. They reconcile...

And please, Stop the threats....it helps no one. It reeks of control. And Even if it's how you feel, why tell her in advance and thus make it an ultimatum? It's clearly meant to intimidate rather than setting a personal private limit for yourself

She still relies on me a lot in the home, and hasn't had to feel the full effects of what me moving out would look like. She said she understood, and she was sure.


so it was intended as a threat...do you see what I mean?



I came to her on Saturday and told her how sorry I was for pursuing and snooping, and for all the hurtful things I said while we were fighting. I told her I knew she wasn't going to change her mind,

Can you try NOT to mind read^^^ or predict what she will feel or do? It's not really your place and it helps neither

but I wanted to make sure she knew that no matter what happens with our marriage I need her to be a positive member of my life. I asked her not to make any definitive decisions from a raw emotional place.

So you "know she's not going to change her mind"...and then you ask her NOT to decide, which is basically asking her to change her mind...

Sunday and Monday went extremely well. We spent time together, laughed, talked about everything EXCEPT the R.

YAY so staying away from R talk helped soothe you both...and then...


Monday night I decided to have one last talk with her before MC on Tuesday and laid out that I'm coming around on the idea of us being friends, and that I'd like to stay in MC with the sole purpose of reconnecting as friends, reversing our negative interaction cycle, and if any romantic feelings showed up then so be it but that wouldn't be my agenda. She rejected the idea and said she is just plain done.


DBing is about doing what works and Not doing what does Not work. Simple, but hard. As soon as you felt you had made progress by having a nice evening, you went in for more extractions from her.

Which teaches her not to trust the good times b/c the other shoe will drop and you'll want more than she is ready to give.


I told her I know how hard it is to believe that from me,

again, you are telling her what she feels/thinks, etc. Just validate her feelings (b/c they are hers) and own your own...not with an agenda, not with pursuit -but with respect for HER boundaries...which you are violating throughout.

Do you know what I mean ^^here?


but I wanted her to let me prove it through my actions. I asked her to give me one week to show her I was serious, and she said she didn't need a week. She is just done. I was devastated.

Just prove it anyhow. No promises and no "look at my actions/give me time to show you - again---OR I'll punish you!"

Just become a man only a fool would leave.

We had another major fight, and didn't get to bed until late.


back off big time. And please, PLEASE respect her stated wishes and stop pursuing her. She needs, at a minimum, space. I don't always say that, btw. But the more you push, the more you push her away...

HEY, put on a helmet now b/c this 2 x 4 will hurt a bit. But I have to say it to reach you okay?

To me, a lot of the way you keep coming on strong with carrots and sticks (your carrots are promises and your sticks are threats) it's coming off to me like a form of bullying.
You bludgeon her with your wants...

But this reads as if you are following her and not letting her breathe. One minute you pretend to let her go - only to try and extract a promise from her the next minute,

then threaten to leave the house/kids IF she files for divorce, (how would that help your cause at all??) and

then you issue another "boundary" of yours. It's mega pursuit, extreme inconsistency and a whole whole lot of control. Sorry...

You need to do the math of 180s...no talk about them.

"small consistent changes + sufficient time = change she can believe.



I didn't sleep hardly at all. She still wanted to ride together to counseling and for the first time in this entire sitch we took the entire car ride without me saying a word or even looking in her general direction. I couldn't bear to speak to her or look at her.


My emotions were so strong I didn't know if I would break down and cry or scream at her. I knew I needed to wait until we were with the counselor so he could help me.


Here's a thought I read on someone else's thread...
Ever wonder if you cannot control your own emotions, how you can order her to control hers with OM?

Once in the counselor's office I didn't compose myself near as well as I wanted to. I started to lose my temper and raise my voice, and our MC smartly asked her to wait in the lobby so we could talk one on one.

Runrec, you do know how "attractive" this^^^ is, right? I was VERY angry at my h 10 years ago (and I am again now!) But I learned 2 things that are so valuable...

1) my anger was totally ineffective in getting h to change. In fact I think he hid more secrets from me...it fueled his negative images of me...

AND

2) my anger consumed ME, and it made me sick. Someone said that holding onto anger to punish someone is like lighting yourself on fire,

to get smoke in their eyes.

In your case it's the opposite of what you need to be doing asap.


He calmed me down, worked some magic, and we were able to bring the W back in. I gave what was probably the most magical speech I've ever given to her. I explained to her how sorry I was and how these emotions over losing her can cause me to lose control,

Very glad the speech was a 180 for you, and yet I'm nitpicking as a reminder, okay?...

YOU are in charge of your emotional outburst, not her. Make sense?


and I'll never give up on us being in love again but either way she'll always mean everything to me even as a friend. I don't recall my exact wording but she ended up in tears (the good kind) and said she completely understands and forgives me. I explained to her and the MC how I understand how she feels, and I'm not saying she's wrong to feel that way.

My only reason for being apprehensive is that we're only 3 months from the BD, and I have spent the entire 3 months in varying stages of desperate pursuit and have given her absolutely no room to breathe or think.

I proposed a trial separation. I told her I would head out of state to stay with my parents. My dad owns his own business and actually is desperate for some help right now, so I can go stay with them rent free and get paid far more than I'm making now to work for him. This would relieve some of our financial burdens, give me a safe emotional place to work on my 180's and GAL stuff, and give her a break from me. This would also give her a trial run of what life as a single mom is going to look like without me available to help.

I proposed one month, but the kids are in school until June 26th and ultimately unless she asks me to come back sooner I'm going to plan on 6 weeks so I can fly back the week before they are out of school.


I've already let her know if she moves forward with the D I will be moving out of state permanently. I'm going to give her full custody of the kids, and I'll take them for summers and we'll switch up holidays year to year (if I remain out of state).

WHOAH....SLOW DOWN////OMG why are you deciding these things now??

What is your goal? Capitulation?

To teach her a lesson?? Man, I think this approach is so so going to backfire on you.

let life teach her a "lesson" - it's not your job.

Plus you are giving away time with your kids and leaving the home.

Have you spoken to a lawyer?


This will be another wakeup call


Wow, so yes you are trying to teach her a lesson with your "wake up call". Good luck there...why wouldn't she just manage without you and not see any of your changes?

The 6 week break was maybe a good idea (b/c you have trouble containing yourself)

but why on earth THEN decide "yes/no"?? Instead, You could move back in and then with actions (not words) demonstrate your changes, and become the man you were meant to be...and who she always wanted...how about THAT approach??


if she decides when I come back that she wants to move forward with the D, she will have to wrap her head around not seeing the kids for the whole summer. She's never been away from them for more than a week or two at a time.

This^^ to me, seems totally utterly controlling and punitive on your end. Not to mention ignoring what is best for the kids. Not attractive.

How are you going to care for them the whole summer? And she gets them for the harder part, the school year?

You don't think the kids or she will have any problems taking them away from their friends and neighborhoods

and then sticking her with the responsible side of parenting while you get the vacation part?


While I absolutely don't want to be separated, I honestly think this is my personal last resort technique.


Last resort is when you have tried all the other approaches which you have not done for more than a day. You must give an approach time and consistency and THEN monitor for results. You need to read the DB book again and not skim.

Not to mention this plan is not last resort, it's all about manipulation. You are not dropping the rope or detaching

you are trying to maneuver the outcome...


I wasn't handling the in house separation in a way that was attracting her back,

true...

but instead of fleeing and threatening that she MUST want you back (as you are now) or suffer the consequences along with the kids,

you could spend the time becoming a different better man and THEN showing her...

so this should help me to truly detach and focus on myself.


She'll either miss me and decide she wants to try again, or be validated in her desire to be divorced.


Way too simplifying. And To me this^^^ means you don't have to DO anything new or different (b/c you know, its too hard),

so you just leave and hope she'll "see the error of her ways" --b/c why? Money and housework??
I just don't see how this makes you look like a better husband for her.

If it's about how fun a dad you are, um...maybe...??? But most Disneyland dads are resented by working moms.

look, I just don't think you'll get the long term results you seek with this...


I told her that at the end of this trial period I'm not asking her to commit to the marriage. If she commits to counseling to save the marriage, I will move back home.


so you are not asking her to commit BUT I won't move back if she doesn't...

More conditions of yours....RunRec ^^^ this is so NOT last resort...Runrec, please consider hiring a DB coach. I found them very specific and detailed and quite helpful.

while I am now divorcing, I know my DB coach was a Godsend - and she helped me extend my m by a decade. She helped be become a better wife and mother too. I'm happier with myself b/c of this approach.

(My main mistakes were in Not piecing correctly, as I saw reconciliation as the "win", which its' not).

But you are simply not really letting the DB approach sink in. This all reeks of tactical strategizing and NOT authentic change in you, which will take months...

DIG DEEPER and realize the hardest journey in life is an inward one. It's the bravest journey.



I also told her that the 4-6 weeks isn't a deadline. If she's not ready to make a decision in late June we can extend the trial separation but I will be bringing the boys back with me if we're still undecided.

So there it is. I'd love any advice I can get, or being pointed to any resources on how to handle this next phase of my sitch. My thinking is to 100% stop initiating any contact that doesn't directly relate to the kids. I'll be cordial, but short on words if and when she contacts me for anything unrelated to the kids.

I will absolutely refuse any talks abou the MR. If she starts trying to talk about the R (very long odds), I have considered just politely telling her that I don't think it's good for us to discuss the R outside of counseling so if she'd like to get started with MC again I can make arrangements to come back early.

It will be SUPER easy for me to do GAL stuff because my hometown has more friends and cheap accessible activities than where I'm at now by a wide margin. I'll be sure to post about all the exciting GAL activities I'm up to on Facebook. That way if any interested parties are concerned I'm shriveled up somewhere in a ball, they'll have proof to the contrary!

At my age, I think this ^^ fb thing is high school stuff, and most DBers block their spouses. FB is (mostly) a series of high light reels that reflect only the best in lives, or avenues for stalking.

why not Just let her know of the family time (via the conversations with the kids perhaps??)

OR call and let her know what you've been doing with pleasant upbeat conversations that inquire about her day, and LISTEN acvitiely to her like the friend you want her to miss and do a ton of 180s...?

Limit the talks to 10 min unless she extends, always be the one to get off first, and be upbeat with a PMA and if you must ACT LIKE AN OSCAR WINNER...

PLEASE hire a DB coach because truly, somehow I feel like the plan you have is 75% the opposite of what would help in your situation.

Maybe that's just me

Any encouragement in the form of success stories after similar situations (WAS, infidelity, trial sep) would be much appreciated. I'm trying hard to keep my faith in God, and keep a PMA about our long term relationship prospects. Like MWD says, it's not over until it's over! She didn't file!

the success stories here do usually involve affairs, or WAS, but not all.

Success stories do exist. For a long time I was one of them. Regardless my time line for recon was 2 years, so was Bluewaves, and LITB's, and I think Sandi's as well, if I'm not mistaken.

so I can say no one solves these things in weeks. Your time line expectations are unrealistic imo

None of us is comfortable with uncertainty. But when you try to force certainty before it's time, usually you force the very result you do NOT want.

[Tread]

Runrec,

I say your best option is to go with what 25yearsmlc is saying. Clearly she has a full grasp of what your W is probably thinking. The hardest part is that what your currently trying is what society often times would push us to do. So I understand your logic. But it simply isn't going to work, because there are clearly levels that most people, especially us men never really even consider. Because these are things that are never discussed or even talked about.

Last couple of months, I have been extremely patient with my own W with a few setbacks due to feeling disrespected with her being in contact with OM. And it got to the point prior to discovering DB'ing to just leave it alone, making changes to myself and perhaps that would change the way she see's things. Hell, even this morning I was considering confronting my W about possibly being in contact with OM again. Glad I decided to think about that decision for 24 hours. Then opted to just let it go after just 10 hours of thinking, due to realizing that conversation would help nothing out. And here I was feeling like I had gotten too soft, until I read 25yearsmlc responses due you.

So I want to thank her for inspiring me to stay on the current path. Any help she could give me on my own situation from perspective would be very much appreciated. RunRec I suggest you do the same. Also you need to remember your W will test you, just when you think things are going great. It either has to do with trying to figure out if you've really changed or to make themselves feel better about leaving you.