I made it from newcomers. Was there about a year. Sitch in my signature, but in brief:
Met in college, playing music. Was a band teacher, now in sales management. EX-WW and I were together for about 18 years, knew each other for about 22. She has been unhappy for a while, and had a ONS about 4 years ago. Rug-sweep, my porn addiction most likely why, and on Oct. 30th last year I discovered the EA, and shnidt hit the fan. Back and forth, but in the end, she wanted OM, who is still married. His kids have already met EX-WW, my kids have done two dates with OM, including the pumpkin hunting (that was one of our old family things, so I have been replaced, as it seems).
Dealing with anger once in a while, but greatly diminished. Angry when I hear things that will affect them do to EX-WW. She has new car, new clothes, doing mild cosmetic surgery, new friends, and has the old house. I spent years getting us out of debt - she has gone right back in, head first.
I'm here to share more of my story, listen to everyone who has advice, vets and rooks alike, and learn how to deal with the loss of a marriage I never wanted to see go away. I am happier that I'm not around EX-WW anymore, but in my faith-life, I was going to be married just one time. Do I stay single? I do get lonely. Am I ready to be in a relationship? nope, I know that 100%. I would like to date, go out and experience life. The pull of the kids, and the life I had, keeps me from completely going full-on GAL. I am running, and have been in IC for the porn addiction for the last year. It was a year clean on Oct. 30th... so I keep working on myself, getting up early, and trying to be the best Trumpet I can be.
I'm excited to be here, and hope ya'll come back and lay the wood on me when I need it.
M46, EXWW46 M15 T17 D20, S19, D13 M - Addiction since 1998 W EA/PA #1 2013/2014 W EA #2 June 2015... BD 1 Big D talk 9/15 BD 2 - EA/PA disc 10/30/15 Served D 1/22/16 Divorced 5/25/16 (yes, that fast!)
Hey buddy congrats on the free porn year. TakeS hard work to b abstinenet.
Learn to live like tomorrow would be you last day. I know the feeling of losing a long term relationship. The loss of family, school buses passing by on a sunny day with happy laughing children. I truly get it. I understand you. I'm a goal oriented person so what are your futuRe goals? What do you want in life? You don't have to b goal oriented it just helped me deal with my stich.
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
I keep getting temp check texts, or what I perceive as anger darts in texts to me, in which I'm supposed to respond to EX-WW. She continues to want to pick a fight, but I don't want to. I do get caught and respond when she pokes the bear about the kids... things like not letting me take them on vacations on my time since I'm taking them out of school, or not responding to a question about the kids fast enough...
I've told her two times now that I don't wish to be friends, that I no longer want to talk with her, that communication will be by text only as much as possible, and interactions will be minimal. Yet, she will once a day text me venom.
I have her phone number and text on mute.
Any suggestions from the vets?
I do miss having a companion, but I realize now that my EX-WW was incapable of showing me the level of emotional connection needed to sustain a marriage due to FOO issues. I can't really tell her that, of course, but after lots of IC, I'm extroverted in my emotional communication. My EX-WW would never talk feelings - feelings are for sissies, except anger and happiness. Oldest kid keeps getting put into situations she shouldn't be in, but other two kids seem to be ok.
M46, EXWW46 M15 T17 D20, S19, D13 M - Addiction since 1998 W EA/PA #1 2013/2014 W EA #2 June 2015... BD 1 Big D talk 9/15 BD 2 - EA/PA disc 10/30/15 Served D 1/22/16 Divorced 5/25/16 (yes, that fast!)
Hey trump. My only thoughts- don't bother telling her anything, just do what you do. The whole actions not words thing. You can simply reply by text only, and terminate face to face conversations before they start.
As for the constant spew, I'm a bit of a PHD. I've made it about 22 months now without displaying any emotion. It's almost gross, my replies look so sterile it's like they're PR releases from a big company. They are as short as can be, they address what NEEDS to be addressed. They aren't warm and friendly, but they are professional and polite. And if you put everyone of my texts/emails together and read them all you'd never find a trace of resentment. Oh- and if she spews hard I might simply not reply to that email. Or I'll start a new email a few days later and only reply to the piece that required a reply (as opposed to replying to the email she sent that was across the line).
I picture myself as a kids toy that has no batteries in it. She can push buttons, but the lights won't come on. I don't need to be her punching bag. She'll have to get her kicks somewhere else. But by being civil I'm still able to maintain the required communication that is best for my children.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Nice to hear from you Zeus. Thank you for your post and advice. I will continue to use the battery less toy analogy in my thoughts every time she texts. Great one!
I continue to develop emotional communication and maturity. Lots of reading. I hope to help others from my experiences.
M46, EXWW46 M15 T17 D20, S19, D13 M - Addiction since 1998 W EA/PA #1 2013/2014 W EA #2 June 2015... BD 1 Big D talk 9/15 BD 2 - EA/PA disc 10/30/15 Served D 1/22/16 Divorced 5/25/16 (yes, that fast!)
I was too tired to hunt this down last night but I found it. It is something I've referenced a couple of times that my DB coach taught me. It has to do with understanding the motives behind some of the behavior from our WAS's. Here is a question I was asked and my summary of what I was taught. It helps me because once I understand the game that is being played it is easier to detach from it and choose a different response rather than reacting and taking the bait.
Quote:
Quote:
Do you think they push buttons because they are still attached and want to see if you are, or do you think it's because they are just selfish and controlling and incapable of thinking of anyone but themselves?
In general this type of speculation is considered mind reading. However it turns out that you can indeed discover their motivations when their behavior is specifically aimed towards you. There is a chart that I was given by my DB coach. Based on how YOU feel when they act a certain way, you can determine THEIR motivations. How is this possible? It's because they know you intimately, they know your buttons and what each one does, so when they are doing things strictly for your benefit you actually can tell what they are trying to accomplish. Here is the chart:
You feel: Irritated Their motivation: Attention
You feel: Insufficient They feel: Insufficient, desire to prove their value
You feel: Powerless They feel: Powerless, desire to gain control
You feel: Hurt and/or Angry They feel: Vindictive, desire for revenge
Couple of examples. I took my kids on a trip once early on. When I dropped the kids off I was only there for 30 seconds, yet she managed to tell the kids about all the things she did over the weekend at a mixed bonfire. It was clear she was aiming this to me. My DB coach asked me how it made me feel. It came down to I felt insufficient, like I was left out, she didn't need me to have a good time. My DB coach pointed out that she probably felt insufficient as I just had a great weekend with my family without her. Another example would be when she took back Sunday nights from me and said she wouldn't allow that again until after court. I felt quite powerless and a bit angry. It was clear her motivation was that she felt she was losing control, and possibly wanted to hurt me as well.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I needed a place to talk things through and ask a few questions, so back to the DB forums I go!
I've been doing better, but D15 has not. Her mom and I took her to a doctor, and have gotten some boundaries in place for her. Counseling, hopefully weekly, is in her future. It hurts to see her making bad choices. I just don't want to see her go too far down the rabbit hole she thinks she can't come back.
OM, still married, hangs out over at old place with EX-WW and kids. They plan on getting a tree together, like we used to, on Sunday. Yes, that hurts. Can't do a thing about it. Moving on...
Finally took the courage to ask a single woman my age at church to coffee. We really hit it off, and want to meet up again soon. I've learned that between the limited time in each of our schedules, we'll find a day or two in the next month. Maybe dinner? Who knows. Just happy to have someone that wants to be with me...
And that is my lead-up to my question. For those who have moved on, I'm struggling with a few things. #1)I placed at least 50% of the blame of our D on my porn addiction, but as time goes by, I'm constantly remembering the hundreds of times I was turned down, the YEARS that went by without sex, of my wife telling me she wasn't interested in me AT ALL, and it still hurts. I turned to my addiction as a way to deal with the rejection. I'm clean and sober since Oct. 30th of last year, so working on myself, and my self image, has made all the difference. I fear her rejection of me was her unwilling to share of herself, due to being molested as a kid, having an emotionally abusive/caustic mother, having eating disorders as well as getting raped in college.
Is it normal to live in a marriage that is sexless all the way through your 30's? And have a wife telling you it's normal, that I should just get over it? To never have sex unless the lights were off, she had 3-5 drinks in her, no cuddling, and only in one position? To tell others in her mommy-groups how awful her husband was, and how much better other mommies had it? To accost me for working late, even by 10 minutes? (Yes, I worked late many nights, it was a cause of pain in the relationship)
Is this the new norm? Should I expect it out of my future spouse?
My barriers are up for future relationships, as I'm just so afraid of those feelings of rejection.
I coped with those feelings in unhealthy ways. I understand that now.
It also hurt that she purposely turned in her wedding ring within a week of D (we were still living in same house), bought huge new diamond earrings with the proceeds, and pointed to them standing right in front of me saying 'See how pretty these are? You wouldn't believe what they give you for an old beat-up ring nowadays!"
I have said some very hurtful things in anger over the last year. The biggest calling our marriage a mistake. I have to own my side of the street.
I'm just still dealing with the big wounds, the big hurts, and confusion over it all. If anyone has any help, chime in. Thanks, brothers and sisters.
M46, EXWW46 M15 T17 D20, S19, D13 M - Addiction since 1998 W EA/PA #1 2013/2014 W EA #2 June 2015... BD 1 Big D talk 9/15 BD 2 - EA/PA disc 10/30/15 Served D 1/22/16 Divorced 5/25/16 (yes, that fast!)
I needed a place to talk things through and ask a few questions, so back to the DB forums I go!
Simple answer? Don't leave, my recovery has been predicated on posting to others, I have learned as much in this phase of recovery as in the early one. Things are much slower in this part of the board although equally demanding. Others will have answers to questions in their threads you are asking.
I've been doing better, but D15 has not. Her mom and I took her to a doctor, and have gotten some boundaries in place for her. Counseling, hopefully weekly, is in her future. It hurts to see her making bad choices. I just don't want to see her go too far down the rabbit hole she thinks she can't come back.
Yes, this sort of divorce truly affects kids. If you are coming parenting that's great. If not parallel parenting is good. Yours is high conflict.
Can you change your script to yourself phrasing thing in positive terms as your daughter takes her lead from you, and whether you like it or not, the dynamics between you and her mum will have taken their toll.
OM, still married, hangs out over at old place with EX-WW and kids. They plan on getting a tree together, like we used to, on Sunday. Yes, that hurts. Can't do a thing about it. Moving on...
Absolutely you move on. It's not real you know, this happy family stuff. It's all smoke and mirrors.
Happy? I doubt it, all of this is for show. The Giggalo is all over the Internet with RIT like a rash, look at me, how happy I am, so in lurve with an ex stripper with three kids from three men. And she now dresses like V, has her hair like V. All illusion, so he looks happy. She has to be attractive, in due course she will get that which I got.
Others are astounded when I say "I am pleased for you Giggalo", whilst he is occupied with his OW9 then it is so. She is rich (relative) lives in a nice unmortgaged home, has a job (he is retired) then he can live in Italy and he doesn't bother me in lots of ways. She makes a great host for a parasite.
Finally took the courage to ask a single woman my age at church to coffee.
Good, ask a few lovely ladies for coffee. You like coffee right?
We really hit it off, and want to meet up again soon. I've learned that between the limited time in each of our schedules, we'll find a day or two in the next month. Maybe dinner? Who knows. Just happy to have someone that wants to be with me...
You know that which I will say? Sweetheart, she may be ok or wonderful, but with this attitude to yourself and just "happy to have", you may be open to more of the same. Your later part of your posts suggests you may need more vibrancy.
And that is my lead-up to my question.
For those who have moved on, I'm struggling with a few things. #1)I placed at least 50% of the blame of our D on my porn addiction, but as time goes by, I'm constantly remembering the hundreds of times I was turned down, the YEARS that went by without sex, of my wife telling me she wasn't interested in me AT ALL, and it still hurts. I turned to my addiction as a way to deal with the rejection.
This is key. Instead of tackling the issue directly with your then W, you blamed her 'she rejected you' and you soothed with porn.
This isn't a blaming issue, it is a mutual issue. When sex doesn't work between two parties, they are rejecting each other.
It needs work and therapy, not distraction. My sex life has always been good and yes even with the Giggalo until he went with the fishwife and starting drinking very heavily.
My sex life with H2 dwindled on the vine, mainly because H2 wanted to explore his sexual options and orientation. Even then we had sex twice a week.
So think of it this way, you felt rejected? They were your feelings to handle which you did with distraction. Truly they were and you must have been comfortable with your porn as a substitute at the end. No partner can ever live up to porn.
Porn partners never say no, the sex is always willing and wonderful. You never get rejected. That's behind you, and you aren't going there again. It was one year and forgive yourself. I give you permission, a lady on the Internet is giving you permission to forgive yourself with no justification or validation. Give younself the same permission.
I'm clean and sober since Oct. 30th of last year,
Amazing achievement, excellently done. I hope you have your imagination and are keeping those juices flowing too.
so working on myself, and my self image, has made all the difference.
Yeah! Wonderful.....
Now more, more, more
A challenge Wonka once gave a poster (Jim) and I stole it from her:
100 things you love about you
I fear her rejection of me was her unwilling to share of herself, due to being molested as a kid, having an emotionally abusive/caustic mother, having eating disorders as well as getting raped in college.
Yes that would do it. You have my views on the term rejection. Chosing this style of W was your decision, and if you didn't know when you wed then that tells you something too about lack of intimacy before M. You know now. Chose healthy, not a fixer up who isn't working on themselves.
This was WW choice to deal with and heal. So now she has a married OM?
As unavailable as a porn addicted WH (Yes you as WH).
She is avoiding dealing with her FOO issues and as it goes this is a big childhood ACE and can bring with it complex PTSD. It needs a lot of work. Your ex is chosing another unavailable man if he is M. An OM leading a double Life?
All that can be done by a partner is to provide an environment in which healing is possible. In my view this includes the need to heal for a great sex life between you. So in the dynamic of your M this choice wasn't made. You know better, took the red pill and are not going to repeat if you heal. If ex does then she does, no longer your circus or monkeys at this point.
Is it normal to live in a marriage that is sexless all the way through your 30's?
I am unsure what is normal. Each couple will be different. If is agreed between two M people it's fine by me. Was it Ok for you? It served a purpose (or was a sacrifice you were prepared to make) or you wouldn't have made that choice.
It is past, you can't redo it. Revisiting it over and over won't resolve and may hold you back. You aren't in that space today so let it be: is my thinking.
And have a wife telling you it's normal, that I should just get over it? To never have sex unless the lights were off, she had 3-5 drinks in her, no cuddling, and only in one position? To tell others in her mommy-groups how awful her husband was, and how much better other mommies had it? To accost me for working late, even by 10 minutes? (Yes, I worked late many nights, it was a cause of pain in the relationship)
So there is back and forward. Issues with both.
I am not going to validate you in this because it was a choice you made. It's past.
Is this the new norm?
Well each couple is different. I was celebrate from 31 to 38, H1 had died and we were like rabbits. H2 had a mid of the road drive and he was my choice. Sex was warm and loving though.
Each his own and with each partner. You take your drive with you, if it's high like mine, know you need a partner with more oomph. My aged Pa had an active sex life until aged ma got dementia, that was about aged 85.
Chose a partner with a matched drive, even this can change with illnesses. Know that a big mismatch of drive requires compromises (as with H2) and I would have stuck with it for life, if H2 hadn't wanted to explore. I loved him enough to set him free.
I would have sex nearly every day, if possible. And with H3 I did.
Should I expect it out of my future spouse?
Your choice and hers.
My barriers are up for future relationships, as I'm just so afraid of those feelings of rejection.
Well that will help you!
You will bring into your life that which you fear. I am afraid of rejecton is inviting rejection isn't it? I think so.
It is the mindset which will mean you may chose a partner that rejects you this way. Do you think you are worthy? If not why not?
It would appear self love, self esteem are low or at least in this area. You may settle for someone who just wants to be with you. That would be your choice.
Sorry for the forthright voice (although I am not), it is a matter on my mind, and even at 62 I am waiting to date until I am back in love with V. In my case it's my weight and overall fins that need addressing, as well as the Giggalo acting like a Terminator in the Fin part of the D.
In a challenge to Mahhty and Zelda I asked them to write a love letter to themselves. I wrote one to myself and I now do so every year at New Year and on my Birthday. My first love letter was 4 pages and created enormous shift.
I coped with those feelings in unhealthy ways. I understand that now.
Yes, great insight.
So in which ways will you tackle it?
There is a mirror exexcise I do every few months for a week or so. It involves looking at myself deep into my own eyes in the mirror and telling me that I love me.
I played Michael Jackson starting with the man in the mirror, telling him to mend his ways. Now it's Rumer and Slow. I had Corner Bailey Rae, Girl put your records on at one time.
It also hurt that she purposely turned in her wedding ring within a week of D (we were still living in same house), bought huge new diamond earrings with the proceeds, and pointed to them standing right in front of me saying 'See how pretty these are? You wouldn't believe what they give you for an old beat-up ring nowadays!"
Just a side bar, I put mine in the rubbish bin. I wished I had bought diamond earrings instead. They would have given me joy. My wedding dress to the charity shop. It's what we do. It's drama.
I have said some very hurtful things in anger over the last year. The biggest calling our marriage a mistake. I have to own my side of the street.
Yes indeed. This is abusive and must stop, it sets a poor example for your children. So what is your plan to stop doing this?
Please Google BIFF in high conflict D.
I'm just still dealing with the big wounds, the big hurts, and confusion over it all.
I am unsure really what to say, except welcome to this part of the board. This is par for the course and when the real work starts. Come on in the water is lovely and many of us are dealing with the same issues.
My view is your main thing to address is poor self love, there is alternating blaming yourself and your WW, and you each made poor choices, there is no going back to change it. She is not your responsibility, you can let go of that and be free to concentrate on you. Your most important thing is being the best dad you can. Investing in yourself and your children, letting go the past.
There is nothing sexier and warmer than a dad who loves his kids and who has self belief.
I think the best choice of partner, warm with baggage she has worked on and free of FOO will be a great solution. Question is would such a partner be attractive to you at this stage, do you want or need an unhealthy love to fit you? Have you FOO Issues? On this there is a UK journalist who writes some wonderful things on baggage and dropping bags. Google Baggage Reclaim, it's not therapy or psychology more a humorous way of looking at life after D, and sorting your junk (literally as well), written by someone who was a serial OW for a while. I really like her stuff, made me smile and it's well written, she has a radio show too. Made me laugh out loud on occasions. We all need humour.
Whilst being sober, have you addressed the underlying issues in full that lead to your addiction? Have you released shame and guilt? Do you love yourself enough to have a healthy loving partner in your life?
These and similar questions I have asked myself.
If anyone has any help, chime in.
Trust they WILL!
Thanks, brothers and sisters.
----------------------
Hugs
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
You are a goddess. Can't love your reply enough right now. I will have to re-read. You put serious time and effort into the post, and ME. I am mucho appreciative. Wow.
Lots of truth there. My counseling for the last year was on the addiction and learning to live within my skin. I will always have imperfections, and learning to love them. I come from the Christian perspective, so I believe I was ignoring what God was telling me all the time - that he loved me.
I have become an immensely more compassionate person over the last year. It is a new component of me that is thrilling and so, so rewarding.
More to come. Thanks again beautiful V!
M46, EXWW46 M15 T17 D20, S19, D13 M - Addiction since 1998 W EA/PA #1 2013/2014 W EA #2 June 2015... BD 1 Big D talk 9/15 BD 2 - EA/PA disc 10/30/15 Served D 1/22/16 Divorced 5/25/16 (yes, that fast!)
Just popping in to say I love that chart and, having considered it for a bit and thought back to various conversations with STBXH ... spot freaking on....
Also, Trumpet, congrats on your anniversary. That's no small accomplishment, especially as you were going through the worst of it from the dates on your sig. I know it's a day at a time kind of thing, but well done for stringing so many together!
I'm no expert. Don't know what to tell ya. My stbxh and I are strictly NC unless it's about S or $, as in "deposited $X for Y in account." "Thx" kind of thing. It's also holiday time so the wacko is usually either in full force or they disappear. Just keep the focus on you and your recovery, as you have been. Sounds like you are doing great! xo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver