MLC, WAW or WW?? Who really knows? Help...pls

[RosaLinda]

Take a deep breath my friend. You don't have to set or enforce any boundaries right now Roe. We were just discussing boundaries because Sandi asked if you had any, and we were using your sitch as an example.

I really believe she is painting me into a corner. We closed today on a big sale and oddly enough the level of disrespect has kicked up a notch. Supposedly W will be moving out very soon then D papers will be served to me. This really just has to end somehow. I think I'm in a hopeless situation.

Maybe she IS trying to paint you into a corner, and figures if she is nasty enough, she will goad YOU into filing. That will make YOU the bad guy, not her. This may be a bit of mind reading on your part here though. Hasn't she been saying she is going to file since May?

What is the worst that can happen? She moves in with OM and serves you with papers. Okay. Will that be any worse than her living in the house with you and making your life hell? Maybe you will be able to detach a little better, and maybe she and OM will get sick of each other. In the mean while you can keep transforming yourself into the best dad and the best man you can be Roe.

If you really believe D is imminent though, it's time for you to go talk to a lawyer and find out what your rights are for child custody, the house, child support, spousal support, etc. Just to be forearmed with the knowledge, and find out what the laws are in your state.

[bigybiz]

Yes, get expert advice. Figure out what you need to do to protect yourself and carve out a good future for yourself. If she is playing games with you - don't take the bait. No matter what it is - small or large. I've seen a few posts where one partner files first thinking it will get a certain reaction or the other will change their mind, etc, etc. It never happens that way.

Let her bring the game to you and yes be prepared.

[bigybiz]

Rosa:

I'll pick this up on my thread. I don't want to be a hijacker.

[ForGump]

Thanks guys, I really have no clue which boundaries are appropriate. W is goading me into filing. I feel that I can't enforce boundaries or I'm just straight scared to know what to do. I really think that D is really the only option I have

ROE-- One way to figure out boundaries might be to answer these questions:

- What specific things has she done that are clearly harmful to your kids?

- What specific things has she done that openly and clearly communicates disrespect and malice to you as a human being?

After you have the answers, you could then think about what are consequences you're willing to act on, and stand by.

I hope you don't feel like you're force into anything by your W, even filing for a divorce. If you arrive at that, I hope it's something you feel you've decided is best for you and your kids.

At least that's what I tell myself about my own situation....

[sandi2]

First, let me be clear on why I asked if she's ever had to face consequences for her show of disrespect. A woman doesn't just wake up one morning and decide to disrespect her H by having an A with the neighbor. I would dare say that your W has been disrespectful toward you in other ways throughout the years. Perhaps you tried to ignore it, or tell yourself it's no big deal, or that's just her way of acting. Everything from a facial expression to the tone of voice used, can show a level of disrespect. Loud sighs of impatience, when the H says something she doesn't like. Rolling her eyes, saying things to the kids about daddy, tapping her foot on the floor when waiting for him to do whatever she wants, making H the butt of jokes, speaking unkindly of him to others, throwing tantrums, screaming at him,........on & on. If she has ever raised her voice to you in front of your children.....she has disrespected you as her H, their father, and the head of the home. My question is......what were your actions whenever she showed disrespectful behavior toward you? If there were no consequences for showing disrespect for you, do you think she'll start respecting you more? Not likely. It only makes her acts worse.

Okay, so let's talk about boundaries. We put up fences around our property; put wedding rings on our fingers; have guards posted on country lines; etc. They all indicate that something of value is being protected, and is off limits to intruders.

Every person should have personal boundaries, based on their integrity, values, principles, spiritual beliefs, etc. Those boundaries are the protection for their emotional, mental, physical, and spiritual well-being. It is up to that individual person to protect himself. Boundaries are about protection......not punishment. With that said, let me add.....a person crossing or dishonoring your boundary should be faced with some sort of consequences for their action, don't you think?

The boundary should be clearly defined. Violation of the boundary will result in consequences, in order to protect what is within those boundary lines. Examples: If someone crosses our property lines to construct a building, we will give a warning to back off, maybe approach them about the property lines, etc. If we are ignored and the building continues.....we turn to the court/law in protecting our property. If the results are bad for the intruder, it's their consequences for not honoring the property lines. If another country tries to invade our country, we will give a warning, and if ignored.....we will go to war as a result in protecting our way of life. Most marriages have boundaries attached, and if dishonored there are consequences to face.....unless you decide to live in an open marriage.

In a case where you have a wayward wife who is openly spending time with the OM, the H needs to decide what he must do to protect his emotional, mental, physical, and financial well-being. Protection is his goal. Your W has said she wants a divorce, so she doesn't care that she's disrespecting you by spending private time with another man. Apparently, she doesn't worry that there are consequences attached to her actions.

The action taken to protect the H's feelings is left up to him......not his WW. Do you understand what I mean? He may tell her to remove herself from the home, but if he can't legally make her leave....then his words are non-effective. He can remove himself, but he needs to first check if it will legally affect his standing in a divorce, child custody, property, etc. Therefore, if you state a boundary, you had better have something to back it up (know what you will do).....and you had better make sure of what is backing you (laws, etc).

To have an effective boundary, you have to enforce it. Think before you speak. The last thing you want to do is make some grand announcement about a boundary you've set, only to eat your words later. Simply saying that such & such is a boundary doesn't mean a thing if you aren't prepared to back it up with necessary action.

Another reason for thinking it through clearly, is b/c your W will challenge the boundary. If you have a wayward wife, it's not a matter of if she'll test you.....but rather, when she'll test you.

Once again, your objective is to protect your feelings. It is not to punish your WW. You are the one to carry through with some type of action that she sees as the consequences for her not honoring your boundaries.

Boundaries are not "discussed" with a wayward spouse. You can state to her that you have a boundary about being disrespected with her spending private time alone with OM. But there are no discussions about it, and this is not a prelude to more relationship talk. There are no negotiations. These are your personal boundaries and you will be the one to decide what they will be and what action you take.

[ROE]

Thank you Sandi2, somethings just need to be faced straight on. I did not want to go the rest of the evening without responding. I've read your post. I'm going to digest everything overnight. I need to really think about how and where to take my next steps to get out of the corner I've painted myself into

ROE

[Cadet]

I think an appropriate boundary would be - I will not be in a relationship with you while you are in one with another man.

Then stop meeting all her needs that you are providing her.
Stop discussing things with her unless it is absolutely essential.
She wants a divorce and you need to show her what a divorce is going to look like.
Are you still going to be friends after the divorce and
help her do things?
Give her extra money and acts of service, gifts, words of affirmation?

Stop all those things NOW!

[RosaLinda]

She wants a divorce and you need to show her what a divorce is going to look like.

Great advice Cadet. LRT right, little or no contact?

[sandi2]

I think an appropriate boundary would be - I will not be in a relationship with you while you are in one with another man.

This ^^^^^^^ is Cadet's example of how a boundary could be stated (that would fit your stitch).

Okay, so you state to her what your boundary is. Then you don't bring up again. You don't remind her as if she has a memory problem. You just watch to see if she is honoring your boundary. The first time you see that boundary line crossed.....then you act. How will you enforce your word?

In the above example, you've stated what YOU won't do. Right? You won't be in a relationship with her. You did not say "marriage", but relationship. (This may seem like splitting hair, but it's an option). What are actions that show you are no longer in a relationship with her? Cadet gave examples for actions one could use, that show consequences to the WW's choice to dishonor her H's boundary. Will she see it as the consequences of her choices, or will she pull the old guilt & control cards? Well, you hope she sees that she brought on these consequences.....but she may not. Your focus is to protect your feelings. Therefore, you withdraw from any type of acts that signify you are in a relationship with her. Basically, you stop acting as if you are her H. Many LBH's find it to be very difficult b/c they want to persuade and prove to the W how good the MR could be again. However, it just doesn't work that way with WW's.

If a man says, "I will not live in an open marriage", then he needs to plan his actions, based on what he said. As long as he is living under the same roof with his wayward wife......he's living in an open marriage. It forces his hand to take action and file for D if his boundary is crossed.

Let me also clarify that the W is free to do whatever she chooses. She has two options. She can choose to honor his boundary and cease to contact OM, or she can choose to continue having a third person in the marriage. If she chooses to violate the H's boundary, then the next move should come from the H, by him following through with action. If he leaves the M, it will be the consequences of her freely choosing to bring a third party into the M, and dishonoring her H's boundary. She may, or may not, suffer from her H divorcing her. But his focus was on what he could not & would not tolerate in his life/MR.

I want to also bring up the subject of boundaries that concern your children. These days, it seems the law protects the WW's freedom, while the H stands there helpless. Check out the laws for your state and see what you can and can't do. If you are S/D, you can't tell her not to bring the kids around the OM. You can't tell her what she can and can't do with the kids.....if the law supports it. See what I mean? It limits the H's boundaries about his kids. My suggestion would be to talk to a lawyer who advocates fighting for fathers rights, before you start barking about what you won't allow around the kids. Yes, of course you want to protect them, and they need protecting. Just know where your words have power....and where your words are powerless. If you can't back it up.....don't say it.

[ROE]

Sandi2 & Cadet, I've read both of your recent posts earlier today. I'm not avoiding. I'm just processing what everyone is telling me. I agree with you all. I will post again later. Thanks everyone

ROE