Quoting lostlove: thing is my kiddos are little, 4 and two. I can barely get son (4) to play memory card games never mind go fish (he just doesn't have the patience yet for that kind of stuff ...
yes, at those ages it might mean being a bit more creative ... altho I could spend hours playing with those Fisher-Price people. Do you have a playground close by? They do love being being on a swing pushed by a grown-up.
Quoting lostlove: ... h does not claim to be unhappy, infact he seems very happy ...
Maybe he doesn't realize all he is missing out on? ... actually he does, as you keep mentioning how he also expresses putting off doing things because of business or raising a family. It sounds like he has come to accept the philosophy that adults are required to put off their dreams or having fun in order to put their responsiblities first. He sees it as one or the other ... instead of being able to mix them up.
How much of a 180 would it be to have a talk that is all about him and don't mention anything about what you want/need? Is he truly happy with what he is doing now or is there more he would like to do? If he doesn't get to do them, will he regret it later in life. Are they any of the things you would like to share doing with him? Then maybe you could work out how to mix them into the present. I think he is missing the value of the doing those things now and accepting putting them off until later, but not realizing the risk that later may never come soon enough to actually do them and before he knows it ... has squandered too many years.
... and I know you've made to several attempts to change this, but sometimes it takes tweeking your approach in just a slightly different angle to make it work better. Have you tried what Michelle describes as asking what they see the M like and what you would be doing when they reach the point of truly being happy? Leave what you want or need out of it as a 180. Then ask why wait until then? Why not start doing some of that now? Are there some shared interests there that you can do together? Its a way to get the ball rolling.
I hope this doesn't sound like I have the answers LL, just trying to see how some of Michelle's principals could be applied to where your sitch is now.
Quoting lostlove: I am simply saying that we need to do some more work to find a middle ground. I need to learn to not focus on the r so much and h needs to learn to focus a bit more on it.
Yep. I think you're on the right track to some degree. I think more precisely its focusing on spending time together in a way that both of you feel you are having fun.
Off tomorrow for 3 weeks...wish you well! Keep pluggin! A R depends on the ability of both to find that middle ground! Your R has plenty going for it. Be patient and grateful for what you have!
Hi LL....you'll probably be here before me tomorrow (your today)...do hop over to Pam's thread...she had a major bomb today in the form of seeing David with OW!!
thanks for the bump sage, especially since I know you are busy trying to catch up having been away. Glad you enjoyed your vaca and even happier to hear you're happy to return home.
so, tonight I'm feeling like why should I do this? why should I accept h's affair even if just an ea, it was a pretty significant ea, enough to move out and ask for a d. wondering if I trust him. wondering if I am truly happy in this r. wondering if I'm happy at all. wondering how h views me having accepted his indiscretion and "allowed" him to come home.
tonight at emt class there was some conversation among some classmates about infidelity and marriage. Made me want to get up and leave. I sat there feeling like the dumb woman who's h had an affair and left her but was to weak to say screw when he asked to come home (or rather to be released fromt the hell he created for himself).
I wish I could go back and do it all over again. go back to the point at wich h stated his confusion that is. not saying I wouldn't have let him come home, just wishing I had done some things differently.
what would I have done differently?
probably would not have been so concerned with when he would actually move back home.
would not have been so "needy" or "expressive" of my negative feelings (though for a while that seemed to work very well) it was nice when I was the "strong" one in the r offering support and assurance to h that everything would be ok.
it seems like h healed awful quickly. almost as if within a month of his statement of confussion he went from a man who sat on the bottom step with his head in his hands telling me that he felt like he was in hell, to a man who seems very confident in his position.
wonder why that should be? why should I, the lbs, the non-betraying partner be worried or concerned about how things are going or about his feelings etc. should he be the one who is concerned? shouldn't he wonder how I'm feeling about things?
I guess I'm feeling extra stress due to the high focus on infidelity these days in the media etc. I do have to wonder though, is the attention to infidelity any higher now than it was before, but it just seems that it is to us because now it's part of our lives? is it similar to when you get a new car, you never knew how many people drove that make and model til you have one too?
I start to wonder...will this be a scar I carry forever? do I want to live with such a scar? is living with the scar of infidelity and working toward a happy m better than the scar of being divorced as a result of infidelity?
as usual I'm full of more questions than answers.
I have some things to think about...assess....I'm not sure if I'm unhappy because I'M unhappy or if I'm just not happy in this relationship.
it's been several weeks since I've heard ily, even after stating that I'd like to hear it....the past few days have lent for easy times to say it (I've spent some time visiting er's for my eye) but it still hasn't come, concern is shown, calls are made...but no ily. LL
First, how does one post to a DBing demigod? Should I bow three times before entering the throneroom? Seriously, you've been a big help to me and legions of others, and you should know how much I appreciate it.
I hesitate to try to address your questions. I'm sure that if someone else posted them, you would be able to give great advice. Maybe you should reread your post and think about your questions as if I wrote them.
That said...
Quoting lostlove:so, tonight I'm feeling like why should I do this? why should I accept h's affair even if just an ea, it was a pretty significant ea, enough to move out and ask for a d.
...wondering how h views me having accepted his indiscretion and "allowed" him to come home.
First of all, what is your meaning of "accept"? I'm sure you don't mean "approve of", or even "condone". What he did was unacceptABLE. So it's not a matter of accepting the A, it's a matter of forgiving it and moving on with the rest of our lives. Replace the word "accept" with "forgive", and you can go from thinking of yourself as a doormat to thinking (more clearly) of yourself as a compassionate, loving, and strong woman.
Quote: it seems like h healed awful quickly. almost as if within a month of his statement of confussion he went from a man who sat on the bottom step with his head in his hands telling me that he felt like he was in hell, to a man who seems very confident in his position.
This might be really the crux of the matter for you right now. So much is tied up in this. Resentment that you still spend a part of every single day feeling bad about the A, when he seems free to be happy; the feeling that if he were truly sorry that he could not bounce back so easily; the feeling that he is minimizing your pain; pissed that you are STILL doing the heavy lifting in the matter of caring and worrying about the R; fear that things are slipping back into the old pre-A routines (BTW, I'm going through many of these same exact feelings right now, can definitely relate!).
When I think about it objectively, I really can't see my W going from a person who struggled hard every day for months considering the question of her M with me (and balancing it against her new R with the OG), to simply recommitting to our M and never thinking about the A or any R stuff anymore. No, I'm sure she thinks about this stuff every day. To be sure, it's not as much as I think about it, but I don't think it's possible for a switch to go off that suddenly would make her never think about it all. But, for her, once the primary question was settled (should she stay or should she go), a sense of peace seemed to take over. Also, I've made some important changes to myself through DBing, so she's much happier with who I am. Couple that with perhaps (not yet confirmed) a little guilt and embarrassment about the A (more reasons not to think much about the recent past) and you have a prescription for a person who is basically happy and forward-looking, a person that may falsely give the impression of not caring and being "too easily" happy. Any chance your H may be like this?
Quote: I start to wonder...will this be a scar I carry forever? do I want to live with such a scar? is living with the scar of infidelity and working toward a happy m better than the scar of being divorced as a result of infidelity?
I think you know the answers better than I. In order, yes, to some extent; no, but you will because it's your best option; and, yes, working toward a happy M is far better than being divorced, even while living with the scar. Besides, even if you got a divorce, you would still have a scar from the infidelity. You wouldn't be reminded of it every day, perhaps, but it'd be there just the same. The experience is just a part of who we are now. It can't be undone and we can't escape it, even if we were to leave our spouses.
Hope your current clouds are lifted soon. We need an upbeat LL on these boards.
Quote: First, how does one post to a DBing demigod? Should I bow three times before entering the throneroom?
first let me start by laughing out loud at that one....me a dbing demi goddess...I doubt it! but thanks!
Quote: I'm sure that if someone else posted them, you would be able to give great advice.
of course I would, but then again I'm not dealing with someone else, I'm dealing with me and my own damn feelings!! poo!
Quote: First of all, what is your meaning of "accept"? I'm sure you don't mean "approve of", or even "condone". What he did was unacceptABLE. So it's not a matter of accepting the A, it's a matter of forgiving it and moving on with the rest of our lives. Replace the word "accept" with "forgive", and you can go from thinking of yourself as a doormat to thinking (more clearly) of yourself as a compassionate, loving, and strong woman.
well I suppose I've let too much of forgiveness be driven by "understanding" and thus in a sense "accepting" h's indiscretion. funny I don't feel strong for accepting or forgiving it...I feel weak and ashamed.
ow actually had the nerve to say to me...."I've got to give you credit, you're a stronger woman than I am, it's one thing to repair your m when your h's had an a, but to know that your h is in love with someone else"
grrrrrrr!! grrrr!!! slap...slap!! pow! bam! it is hard damn it...it is...but it's obvious for many other reasons that I am a stronger woman than she is! I wasn't having an a ea or otherwise...I don't sit and pout and say I'm leaving my h because he doesn't love me...booo whoo! I really pity the poor pathetic little girl that she is...I pitty h for having had feelings for her too..what a sucker!
Quote: This might be really the crux of the matter for you right now. So much is tied up in this. Resentment that you still spend a part of every single day feeling bad about the A, when he seems free to be happy; the feeling that if he were truly sorry that he could not bounce back so easily; the feeling that he is minimizing your pain; pissed that you are STILL doing the heavy lifting in the matter of caring and worrying about the R; fear that things are slipping back into the old pre-A routines (BTW, I'm going through many of these same exact feelings right now, can definitely relate!).
When I think about it objectively, I really can't see my W going from a person who struggled hard every day for months considering the question of her M with me (and balancing it against her new R with the OG), to simply recommitting to our M and never thinking about the A or any R stuff anymore. No, I'm sure she thinks about this stuff every day. To be sure, it's not as much as I think about it, but I don't think it's possible for a switch to go off that suddenly would make her never think about it all. But, for her, once the primary question was settled (should she stay or should she go), a sense of peace seemed to take over. Also, I've made some important changes to myself through DBing, so she's much happier with who I am. Couple that with perhaps (not yet confirmed) a little guilt and embarrassment about the A (more reasons not to think much about the recent past) and you have a prescription for a person who is basically happy and forward-looking, a person that may falsely give the impression of not caring and being "too easily" happy. Any chance your H may be like this?
great points!! but I do wish that h would be a bit more open about his fears, feelings, reservations etc. no point in trying to protect me from himself or to protect himself from me...it's just not going to get us anywhere.
Quote: I think you know the answers better than I. In order, yes, to some extent; no, but you will because it's your best option; and, yes, working toward a happy M is far better than being divorced, even while living with the scar. Besides, even if you got a divorce, you would still have a scar from the infidelity. You wouldn't be reminded of it every day, perhaps, but it'd be there just the same. The experience is just a part of who we are now. It can't be undone and we can't escape it, even if we were to leave our spouses.
I know the answer to that one, obviously...if I didn't know the answer I'd have gotten a divorce before h even asked for one...I'd have filed the day I discovered the "secret friendship" and that would have been the end of it.
ok so now let me "complain" a bit....
h makes no plans for us to do anything together...uses work as an exuse...can't even get home for me to get to class...I have to get a sitter to cover til he gets home and that is at no specific time...
last night he was able to leave work to be ready to hit the road by 5pm....didn't get home til 2am (went to a pre season football game) and now is cutting out of work early simply because he's tired...
gee I wonder....
why can't you cut out of work early to maybe spend some time with your w and kids??
I think I'll plan on going out to the movies or something tonight as I'm sure h will be asleep as soon as he can.
I think Brian described very nicely the shift of emotions CJ has gone through. He did seem to fall into a more peaceful state than I once his "decision to stay" was made.
And, I don't know, I'd perhaps LIKE to think that he is reminded of what he did every day, but he APPEARS to be doing very well at putting it all behind him.
When I have a bad moment (Like an anniversary) his only comment is to put the past behind us, focus on now and the future.
Frankly I think I'd LIKE to hear him say what he did still haunts him! That's not a very noble sentiment, is it! But you're right in that it doesn't seem fair that we, the LBH's, have to carry the bulk of this burden ourselves.
LL, I think you are going to have to go back to the all time DB basic premise: PATIENCE. Let time heal the wounds. I know it is not easy... but you have to quit taking its temperature every 5 minutes and just let things heal. Maybe you should pray for healing of yourself. I have and know it has helped me. Patience and perserverance. Continue to take care of yourself.
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
... altho I could spend hours playing with those Fisher-Price people. 
Do you have a playground close by? They do love being being on a swing pushed by a grown-up. 
JK!!! 
But you're right in that it doesn't seem fair that we, the LBH's, have to carry the bulk of this burden ourselves.