Being good at disagreement

[Zephyr]

sorry you were put in this position to have to protect yourself like this. doesn't make it that much easier to swallow.

Thank you for sharing

((((juju))))

[JulieH]

Thanks zephyr

I'm doing a little better. Finally taking action instead of staying in limbo has helped me a bit. We needed to move forwaRd. Husband was pushing to do so and I guess, I did it in the way that methe my best interests.

I'm sad though. It didn't have to be like this and it's a real loss.

[JujuB]

Just journaling


I keep coming back to intense anger at husband. I guess I share that with a lot of the WS on the board. That intense anger that they had for us which allowed them to leave and in most cases betray. I understand that anger so well. I think I use my anger to avoid mourning and grief although the grief peeks in more and more.

Divorce has made me really examine myself. Was I that bad of a wife to warrant the way husband treated me in the end. Is he that big of an a... To treat and neglect me and our son the way that he did.

Someone told me to forgive myself and husband that I have to move past perfectionism. I was hard on husband because I am hard on myself.

I need to find a therapist to examine the relationship I had with hubby. I was always criticising and demanding but I always felt neglected.

I am kind of in the beginning phases of a new relationship. I do not criticize nor make demands. I'm really just living for present but I am so afraid of invading his space and demanding too much time and being needy. I'm under the assumption that men want tons of independence. At times I don't feel completely confident to expect anything because I am an older, single mom. etc. I think he is becoming attached and I am remaining detached because I expect what seems to be inevitable in relationships. His actions are all based on someone that wants to be with me. He wanted to use vacation days so he could accommodate my schedule and spend more time with me. He texts me all the time and talks to me on phone for close to 3 hrs. He talks in terms of future. He confides in me. Things that I am surprised he would confide in me. These are all things my husband never did.

Of course I wonder if he's like that because I'm detached and that's the appeal?

Dating someone does not take away the hurt and pain and feelings of rejection I face with the divorce. Not at all. It just gives me some type of hope maybe or someone pleasant to look forward to.

[Rouky]

I think that even if we are with someone, going through D is a grieving process as we have spend a good number of years with H. Don't be too hard on yourself.
One thing I'm learning the hard way is actions are louder than words. Look at what the new person is prepared to do for you. You are closing a chapter of your life to start a new one, embrace it and live day by day.

(((((Hugs)))))))

[Zues126]

J, I hesitated to reply. There is no secret I feel pretty strongly about the one year rule. As a result, I often times don't post in threads where people are dating again so soon, the same as I essentially never post in someone's thread when they come to these boards saying they initiated a divorce earlier in their life (Not that they are horrible people, but these days I just don't mingle with that group much).

But I am challenging myself for a few reasons. One is that I'm still wrestling with this within myself. Part of me thinks it's normal and natural to distance myself in this way, the same way I don't hang out with people that drink- not that there's anything seriously wrong with drinking, just not my element. But part of me thinks I need to be more allowing. Below I acknowledge that I, too, was critical in my marriage, and I am trying to figure out these balances between boundaries and tolerance. Most of all though J, you are one of my favoritest posters on this forum, you have inspired me with your journey, and you have supported me through mine, and I'm not prepared to write you off because you were in a bad place and medicated a bit to get through (which is my own take on a new R. I acknowledge this is just my perspective, not saying it's 'correct'). And trust me, I wouldn't have any friends if those who cared for me weren't EXTREMELY tolerant in so many ways.

So please forgive my criticism. I can move past it if you can, and I would love to still be a J supporter. If there's one thing I've learned it's that there is no such thing as 'compatible', there's just people that can respect each other's differences and not let them get in the way of the positives that outnumber them.

Was I that bad of a wife...

You know I think we are all terrible spouses

...to warrant the way husband treated me in the end. Is he that big of an a... To treat and neglect me and our son the way that he did.

We live in a world where many people don't consider this that egregious. Your XH isn't a horrible person. He is a human with faults, and one of them is buying into the idea that personal happiness are all important and trump values and commitment (whereas
I believe values and commitment are all important and we aren't entitled to happiness, yet ironically true happiness comes from honoring those values).

While we can let go of our anger and find forgiveness in the sense of not letting it poison our lives, I believe it is appropriate to always have a passionate distaste for these actions, and to cast our vote boldly within our center of influence so others may be inspired to follow a different path than your XH.

Someone told me to forgive myself and husband that I have to move past perfectionism. I was hard on husband because I am hard on myself.

I was hard on XW and that played a role in the breakdown of my M. I was 1,000 times harder on myself.

I'm all about finding forgiveness, and learning to manage my perfectionism. But I've accepted that I will always have a strong trace of perfectionism, or if it leaves it will go at it's own pace. We can learn and grow and change to a degree, but part of that growth is understanding what parts of us are who we are and accepting them and living with them. For me, continuing to drive towards the elimination of perfectionism would be a paradox, since it's really more of the same. Accepting that I'm wired a bit different than most people and being ok with it, but learning how to minimize the harm I cause to myself and others, and maximize the gifts that it brings to me and those I love- that is my game plan. And it probably won't work perfectly, but that's ok too.

I need to find a therapist to examine the relationship I had with hubby. I was always criticising and demanding but I always felt neglected.

Never a bad idea.

All in all J I'm really glad to see you posting again!!!

[Painter]

I believe values and commitment are all important and we aren't entitled to happiness, yet ironically true happiness comes from honoring those values.

I love this.

[JujuB]

Zues

I am glad you are still posting on my thread and I hope you continue to do so. I never minded your criticism. I like you and I really do respect what you have to say. Most of all, I respect your honesty.

I will be honest too. I agree with your thoughts regarding new relationships. Its rational, and makes a lot of sense. I reread a couple of posts back about your thoughts on dating and you are spot on. I'm not gonna kid myself and say I'm in a good place and emotionally/mentally stable. I am really damaged and very vulnerable. I'm angry, I'm remorseful, I'm grieving, I'm depressed. Most of all I'm tired. I recognize it. I don't really know what I'm doing, my feelings are all over the place but I'm just doing it anyway.

(I once posted that I would make a horrible super hero. I know better, but I would never give the retrieved money back to the banks. )

Maybe an analogy is a starving person is given a piece of chocolate cake that is begging to be eaten. Sure its not necessarily good for you but hard to resist. I don't really know and am just kind of taking things day by day I guess.

Regarding your challenge, I don't really like to drink at all either, but i have some great and interesting friends that do. In fact, some of my closest friends have done things in their pasts, that I morally disagree with. But by accepting them, I lose nothing.

i was never really able to accept my husband though. So go figure. One of the things I regret in our relationship. And perhaps, the necessary element for a successful marriage? I am still unable to accept and forgive him. Maybe this is what i need to work on for healing?

In fact, you and I are alike in this aspect. We are both so morally opposed to divorce that it becomes difficult to accept our spouse for ending the marriage. We both recognize that our marriages were unhealthy, and miserable. Yet I cannot speak to my husband and I certainly was unable to be his friend throughout this whole process. (the one thing the DB coach said was necessary for any chance at reconciliation)

When I told my husband i was uncomfortable with mediation, he responded that he respected my opinion. I don't know if that was a canned response of politeness but I can tell you that I never once respected his opinion regarding ending our marriage.

Im so tired of my feelings regarding husband. I am remembering less and less. Our marriage and memories are becoming more distant. My feelings are never reliable. And my beliefs are just my beliefs. They are not necessarily right either.

[JujuB]

So I Googled "guilt over divorcing wife" and I came across these forums that were written by WAS posters. It was really hard for me to read. A lot of them were female WAS, but I am sure the feelings were similar for my husband.

The posters wanted divorce. They were aware that they were detached and no longer invested in the marriage. They wanted their spouses to just leave them alone, find someone new and realize that the relationship was over so that they did not have to feel guilty.

There was all sorts of encouragement anx a sentiment on there regarding how necessary it is to leave a marriage that's not working and how to not allow the LBS to make them feel guilty.

It was really disturbing to me on such a deep level. The callousness of it. The lack of commitment and loyalty. The disregard for family and acceptance of impermanence... one poster quill, actually made this comment about how of course the LBS does not want the marriage to end because they no longer have the servitude of the WAS. Ugh.

They are as stuck on their beliefs of ending a unhealthy marriage as I am of preserving it. I recognize I can be wrong and regardless I have not power to change it.

My husband is so relieved I filed. I will never be a friendly coparent. I will never let this be easy for him. I really hate him for his beliefs... that family is disposable.

I hope more then anything that he is doomed to hurt and failed relationships.

I want him to regret this, but I can honestly say he never will. He is convinced this was the right decision. Just like many if those posters were.

For some reason, I can't let go even though it holds me back.

[Ginger1]

JuJu,

I was where you are. I wanted my ex to regret so bad what he did. I fantasized about some grand apology filled with what he knew was to be wrong and how he was truly sorry. The only sorry I ever got was "Sorry it had to be this way".

Pleeeeease do yourself a big favor. Do no read that stuff anymore. I used to be obsessed with researching what goes through the mind of the OW. It didn't bring me any comfort or understanding.

You'll let go when you are ready to let go. One day you just won't want to hold on anymore because you will realize the only person it is hurting is you.

I think you are an amazing woman and mother. I know the peace will come in time. You do have to work towards it, but when you are ready. get a voodoo doll if that's what you need right now:)

[Painter]

Juju, I don't know if you have a spiritual faith, but I have found great comfort in praying for WH. It started as praying for our M and family, and now I pray for him finding his way and making good choices and for healing of our family, which has been so fractured due to this. One of the effects of praying is that it releases my anger. Loving-kindness meditation would probably have the same effect.

(((((Juju)))))