I apologize for not responding until now, especially since you've been so helpful to me. I started to type up a reply today at work but then got too busy with work stuff to finish. From your latest post it sounds like you may have worked out your problem, but I'll give you my insight for whatever its worth. Sorry if I'm too late to get it to you before you leave for your vacation.
Quote: When you and your wife get to this point...you know it isn't going to happen, and you either roll over pissed or you have the argument....what do you wish she would do differently at that point instead of what she normally does?
Man, you know my situation well! That's exactly what happens. When it does, my wife never does anything to make me feel that she cares - she just rolls over and falls asleep, leaving me to lay there with the hurt and frustration building up. I honestly think that if she were just sweet about it, saying something like "I'm so sorry but I'm just too tired (or whatever) right now" then asked me if we could do it in the morning, the next night, or whenever, I would feel so much better. If she would cuddle up to me really close and fall asleep holding me, that would help too.
Quote: I would have done a BJ, but at that point he'd say to me, "no, you're just doing it because you don't want to have sex."
In that regard, your husband is obviously very spoiled compared to me. My wife would never say that - and if she did I would feel completely loved, especially since I'd know that she was doing it just for me. Sure, I'd rather be able to make love to her and have her enjoy it as much as me, but in a situation like you were in last night, I'd have no complaints whatsoever if she offered to do that.
I'm sorry that I probably wasn't much help relative to your current situation - I think the fact that my marriage is currently so much more sex-starved than yours makes me see things a bit differently than your husband does. I hate to turn around and ask for you insight at this point, but you've been so helpful that I can't resist providing a little more background into my situation.
When my wife and I were dating, the sex was wonderful. However, besides the occasional change of location, she was never much on trying anything new. She's never once given me a HJ. She's given me a BJ once - before we were married - and we've now been married over six and a half years. It was outstanding! But I've never known if she's never done it again because she just absolutely hates doing it, or if she's afraid that she's not any good at it, or some other reason. It's not as if I'm not willing to do similar things for her - I'd absolutely love to, but when I've tried she doesn't seem to be comfortable with it. Granted, I didn't really know what I was doing in that regard until fairly recently, but I've studied up a bit and I'm fairly comfortable that I could become quite good at it. Unfortunately, with the situation as it's been, I never get the chance to try out any of my newly acquired skills. Sure made all of that sound technical didn't I! I'm actually trying to remain as tasteful as possible here.
One other thing that I can't understand. We talked previously about "relieving pressure". I am quite the expert at doing so, and have been for a long time. However my wife claims that she has never in her life "relieved any pressure". Considering what I've read, that seems to be quite unusual, even among females. I mention it because it might tell you something about her sexuality issues - and if it does, maybe you can clue me in. Let's say all of this sex-starved business eventually goes away and we are again having sex frequently. That would be wonderful, and things would certainly be tolerable if that were the case, but I'd like some variety as well. Is there any hope? I realize that there's not much need to be concerned about variety until the frequency issue is resolved, but at some point I'd like to know if there's a way to bring my wife out of her shell and have her become interested in more than just the missionary position. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Gotta go "relieve some pressure" now. Have a great vacation.
Thanks for responding...and it does help to know your opinion on how I can respond differently to him when this issue comes up again. It will because that's life. But it's good to know from you and AM what's going on at the moment it happens so I can try to be more empathetic.
Anyway...I'm going to ask a pretty bizarre question here. Is your wife by any chance a Southern Baptist or maybe even Catholic? Barring any particular religion, is she religious -- a frequent church goer?
Sounds like she has some real sexuality challenges...and I can certainly relate to that one...and alot of it stemmed from when I took so many things from the bible and from various churches I attened way too literally. I'd say that only in the last few years have I become more comfortable with the body God gave me, and all it was intended to do.
I won't speak on this any more until you respond. One step at a time, Sooner. Stay focused. Get a little further down the road. Patience. The road of patience, by the way, is paved with tolerance and empathy. The things your wife is facing and thinking, believe it or not, have little to do with you. She's grappling with her own stuff.
Actually, my wife was raised Catholic and I was raised Southern Baptist. Our children are Captists! We now attend a non-denominational church, but I wouldn't say that either of us are overly religious. My upbringing taught me that sex before marriage was wrong (not that I didn't do it), but I've always felt that a vibrant sex life was critical within the confines of the marriage relationship. And the Baptist church doesn't have a lot to say about masturbation, specifically anyway. I don't know a lot about the Catholic church, with regard to their teaching on sexuality anyway, but I do suspect that my wife's Catholic upbringing has a lot to do with her sexuality issues. I'll leave it at that for now and wait to see how you respond. I realize of course that I may not hear from you until after your vacation, but that's fine as this is obviously not a pressing issue - just more of a curiousity issue at this point.
Thanks, I actually cracked a genuine smile. I realized that getting my ass kicked by you wouldn't be so bad; it would be nice if some of us here could hang out and hash some of these issues out over a beer.
I will follow your suggestions although my first reaction is "Hell, just what I need, more obligations. Couldn't I just get a BJ like Corri's hubby (lucky bastard!)?"
I have been wanting to get back to the gym; summers always mess up my regimen.
I don't have much time to myself (another aggravation to my problems) so it may take me more than a week to read the book. I will look for it today, though.
Corri, in one of your previous posts, you said that you HATE HURTING your husband when he wants to have sex and you do not, and if you turn him down both of you end up going to bed angry. Why not subscribe to Michele's motto, "Just Do It". When he makes it obvious that he is in the mood, rather than deciding instantly, nope, no can do. Why not be receptive to his advances and foreplay, give it some time, and let your body decide what the outcome is. You may be pleasantly surprised at the results and the satisfaction to both of you will be worth the effort. Just a thought, Patsi
Just thought I’d update my situation, for record keeping purposes if nothing else. I’m now approaching 4 weeks since my wife and I had any kind of a fight (the only one we really ever have being the sex argument). We’ve gotten along great, I haven’t initiated sex or put any kind of pressure on her, I’ve been in a great mood around her, haven’t pouted, etc. However, there’s still nothing happening in the intimacy department – no attempts whatsoever by her to cuddle with me, touch me occasionally, etc., much less have sex. Nonetheless, I’m still doing pretty well mentally and don’t see myself screwing things up anytime soon. I’m still trying to exercise about every other night although I had to take a break from the running as my knees and ankles were killing me. I guess I’m starting to get old, although I think my aches are mainly from not using any running muscles for lots of years – as well as cheap running shoes, which I’ve now replaced. In the meantime I’ve been riding my bike, but I plan to resume running within a day or two. Also, I’ve continued to go to the driving range fairly often and I actually played a round of golf (first one, unless you count some par 3 rounds in high school) on Sunday afternoon. I was bad enough to not keep score, but I got better as I went along and actually had some nice shots. Anyway, it was fun and I’ll definitely keep working on my golf game (if I can call it that yet).
Corri, I’m anxious for you to get back from vacation since your input has been so helpful to me lately. I’d still like your take on the upbringing issue that I mentioned previously, although it really isn’t critical at the moment. In the meantime, I guess I could throw out the questions that are going through my head for Corri or anyone else who would care to offer their insight (are you still out there MPT?). Here’s what is floating around in my mind:
1. After 4 weeks (almost) of getting along great, what is my wife thinking? Could she be anywhere close to getting past whatever resentment she’s harbored towards me, at least to the point that she might start making a conscious effort to work on our problems? Corri gave me a great answer to this question before, and I doubt that my wife’s thinking has changed much since then. Nonetheless I’m curious about what could be keeping her from trying.
2. I sent my wife flowers at work a little over a week ago for no apparent reason and afterwards I didn’t initiate sex or do anything that would give her the idea that I expected something in return. Corri stated that the flowers would have “melted her” – and I think that my wife did really appreciate the gesture. However, I assume that any melting has worn off by now. Does anyone have any other suggestions of things that might again “melt” her? While I’ll continue to occasionally send flowers for no specific reason, I assume that doing so too often would become unappreciated or begin to look like a ploy.
3. Is there anything that I can do at this point (besides what I’ve been doing) that might have some positive impact on my situation?
4. When things do begin to improve, I realize that progress will probably be slow – for instance I doubt that we’ll go from virtually no sex to a steady 3+ times a week right away. But if I go about things right, how likely is it that we’ll get back to having sex regularly – multiple times a week – at some point in the near future? I sometimes worry that by going to all of this effort my wife will finally regain enough desire to have one nice “romp in the hay” (no, I don’t actually live on a farm), then we’ll be back at the same point that we are now. I dread the possibility of going through all of this again, over and over. Anyone have any thoughts?
Guess that’s about it. I’m a bachelor with two kids tonight as my wife is out of town overnight on business, so I guess I should get to sleep as one of them will surely wake up soon and keep me up the rest of the night. Sweet dreams!
Sooner, Been on a trip, had a computer virus, and honestly I need to cut back on time I spend on the BB. I'm posting something to Cloudnine's thread ("They keep pulling me back IN!" ) which may have some relevance for you.
I know the questioning you are going through right now. I have been taking a similar road of not pressuring, occasion random acts of giving flowers, steering away from “the argument” with no difference in her attitude or willingness to recognize my problem. I am oddly afraid to have sex at this point, contradictory to the fact that I want it so bad, because of the proberbial “resetting of the clock”. I almost don’t want to have sex again unless it is the beginning of improvement, of real change (I should really emphasize “almost” because I’m so hungry I’d take anything she’d offer). Even if it was reasonably good sex, the fear is that her attitude will be “Well, that was nice; great! now we’re caught up on that for a month or so.” and the couple days after when I’m still glowing with joy from the lovemaking I tend to be still romantic and I always hear “we just had sex a few days ago or last week and you want it again!” I can’t take a mediocre sex life. It is simply not acceptable at this point in my life. Lack of romance is lack of vibrancy and one of life’s greatest joys.
I fear all of that. The weight of rejection is almost as great as the pain of marital celibacy.
I’m wandering a bit here, sorry to get too negative. I think too many gestures of kindness (flowers, etc.) could eventually backfire. Our spouses could get bored with it. A guy that is a typical jerk gets a ton of attention from his wife if he sends her flowers a couple times. Nice guys that do it too much seem to appear soft and boring.
Sorry this isn’t much encouragement. I do think you are doing great, better than I am with the attitude right now. If you can hang on long enough I think it may pay off with the melting of her icey heart.
Sooner - I have been lurking on your thread. Great to see you back. For some background on me check the 180 backfired thread. I am really impressed with everything you and AM are doing for your wives. I'll tell you -if it was me you'd be getting some major great sex after all that emotional attention. I don't know how old your kids are but I have to tell you that as much as I love them - they killed my desire for sex. I have a 10 and 4 yr old., I work full time and do the bookwork for my husbands business. For years I felt like I just could not give anymore. I was pulled in every direction. It is getting better as the kids get older and I had a few things shock me into reality. I just forgot what it was like to love sex.
Keep doing what you are doing. I don't know if she will read SSM. It changed my perspective on everything although it may have just been the right timing in my life for it. I too am struggling how to approach my H on the sex thing as he has been uninterested because I have not been there for him for so long. It has been about a month for us too. I got some good advice from a db coach.
Tonight I am going to ask him if he is wants sex. If he says his typical "it's your choice" my reply will be a casual, upbeat "ok, I understand, just let me know when you are interested". I know he wants it but does not want to give in to his stubbornness. In the past few weeks I have continued with sex after his reply and he would just receive. I understand he doesn't want to get rejected again.
As for your wife - give her time - especially with kids. It took me a long time to realize that there even was a problem. I let my feelings for my H slip to the bottom of the priority list. How does that go - you always hurt the one you love most.... It took me letting go of a lot of resentment (why do I have to do it all.....) it also took me getting jealous of my H's friendship with a co-worker.
Be a chameleon - keep her guessing and keep doing what you are doing.
) which may have some relevance for you.