Thank you for taking the time to respond to several of my posts, and to take the time to be specific in your advice. Very much appreciated.
Thank you for the suggestion about the book Codependent No More. I've read about 5 chapters so far, and I see many negative traits associated with Codependency that I have and that I certainly want to get rid of, so in the spirit of the program of awareness and acknowledgement.
I am codependent.
I'll look harder at my current relationship - maybe my wife and/or I have crossed that line with our drinking. I do look back at my mother who also resembled many of those codependent traits. I'm the son of an Irish Catholic woman so I though lots of guilt was just a normal way of life. That said, she grew up around a lot of hard people (daughter an Irish pub owner in rough neighborhood), and her best friend's husband of many years was absolutely an alcoholic which ultimately killed him in his late 40's / early 50's. I believe my mom stopped drinking around that time so something changed though I've never gotten the story from her. I too certainly got caught up in my 20s around some chemically dependent folk, and thankful made the escape from those relationships. From this book, it sounds like the author is saying those situations can leave us with many scars, learned or emergent, that we need to deal with independently of getting out of the bad relationships... Both you Sandi, and Cadet, have flagged my reactions as codependent, so I'll take it as face value, and start learning and acting on that advice... Thanks!
A separate thread perhaps, but feels like for WAS if they're like mine who've been "planning" on their escape for years, that those environments of sensing a problem, and having any discussion about it actively shutdown, would lead to and/or continue codependent behavior - based on the little I've read so far about it. At least a vicious cycle happens when the R breaks down such that you can't talk through real problems, you start enabling bad behavior as it smooths over the current argument, you start trying to fix each other because you can't talk about what's wrong, ... nasty...
Having just finished The Five Love Languages, and taking their profile quiz, yes I do respond best to Words of Affirmation, with a not too close 2nd of Physical which I would have though was #1. It resonates, if I'm honest, as in my work life as a people manager I'm quick to give affirmations, and advise others to do the same - "they're quick and cheap ways to acknowledge people". Its my go-to strategy, which correlates with the 5 Love Languages premise that what we are most likely to do to show love is most likely what we want in return.
My WAS seems to be a Quality Time person, and our R started to go bad once our Quality Time reduced - had kids which caused priority time together to go to the bottom of the list. As time past and this lack of expressing love - affirmation and quality time - took its toll on our selves, it just got worse and worse till we get to my BD in Dec where I fully realize she's been wanting out for years; planning her escape and seeing me as this angry person that would just roll over when she said I should just move out as she and the kids don't see or need me... I'm thankful that I've gotten to a spot where I know her assessment of me is not true, and I've improved in a number of areas that have improved my relationships with my kids, and with her, such that they are articulating improvement. Its clear I still have a lot of work to go in terms of seeing my improvements in terms of my wanting it versus needing others to affirm it, so the improvement journey continues with a new set of action plans...
DB Coach Chuck picked up on my reactions to constructive criticisms, which I assume you meant as suggestions provided by others about changes in my behavior versus the more negative criticisms of character ("prefer that your fold the clothes this way" versus "you're such an idiot"). His advice has started to help me to see, and appreciate, the criticism for what they are, and I've been able to get through arguments with my WAS much better, that is without getting defensive and angry, and I feel better about the improvements. Its still hard, though it feels like its becoming a little more habit and helping me separate my sense of self-worth. I can't remember if its from The Art of Listening or a different book, that talks about this as well saying that understanding what our core values are - (simple paraphrase) being supportive of my loved ones versus being "right" in an argument - has helped me take my anger and frustration down several notches in these conversations as I can put them into that framework. E.g. I'm getting criticism about how I did the laundry, and I'm feeling angry about that; does that go against my core values - no; so take a breath and take the comment at face value, and appreciate that they are trying to help you even if its not exactly what you want right then...
I think of the video about "Its not about the Nail" https://youtu.be/XIJYO4u5iug that is over the top in highlighting that sometimes people just want to be *heard* and not have the problem *fixed* no matter how glaring the problem is...
Thanks again for taking the time in your thoughtful and detailed responses. A lot for me to process, and I am already seeing value in your book suggestion in particular. I'll try to act more on that, and keep reporting back about on-going improvements and how they are helping me achieve what I want.
checking in after a while, and very sad to see Broke's update...
Sandi - huge hugs - I finished ready Codependent No More by Melody Beattie, and I don't think I've ever felt so much reading a book; full gamut of emotions. So much resonated that clinically or not, I'm sure I've got many of those negative traits that I want to change. The book spoke to me about the pain, and really shook me with making me feel I can forgive myself - I was doing the best I could all those years, and all I can do is try to improve; no need to blame or feel guilty anymore, that its OK... I'm tearing up writing this now... thanks for the book recommendation, and its already helping me better understand what detaching could mean for me, and that its OK to "be selfish" and take care of my self - that will really allow me to do what I want when I want to help the others I care about in my life in a healthy way for all...
I feel that some of the closest people around me are confused by my starting to talk more about how I feel, and what I want and need, after all those years of talking about what I should be doing or what others need me to do... makes me smile to think of them confused, though supportive, of this change in me...
Its sad that its required this real kick in the balls to get me to spend the time that's allowing me to see this issue in me. At least I can now spend time improving that, and I believe it should help make my life better especially in having healthier relationships. I'm also hoping it will help me with my kids so they are able to have better life...
Maybe related, I had a good MC session with my WAW. The counselor asked us for an update, and since I've been traveling a lot for work lately, my W made a bit of a snide comment about "all good since he's not around". The counselor challenged me to react to that, and get out how it made me feel. It was awkward, though I managed to express that I didn't like the tone without getting angry or defensive or such. I did feel good that I've gotten to a better place that I'm able to both understand and express my feelings, and to not let my fight or flight reaction to statements get in the way of how I respond.
Near the end of the session, my W did say that, even though she's still skeptical of the changes she's seeing in me ("too good to be true" / "too much baggage still in the way"), that she feels that we're interacting in a better way such that she's not actively thinking of wanting me out of the house / getting separated. Now she also made clear that we are a long ways away from anything romantic, i.e. any physical contact. I'm OK with that for now as I still believe having us together as a family is really important especially for our kids, and I still do love this woman when she's not acting like her evil alien twin :-)
Minor victory lap, and then back to a whole lot more DBing... At least this greater sense of detachment is giving me a new perspective to tease apart some of my life choices and relationship patterns to see if there are better options that I want. Very odd to be thinking this way though I feel like there is much to be gained...
This whole experience really is the hardest thing I've ever dealt with in my whole life. Its not just the sadness and emotional pain of feeling I'm losing someone I love, its flipping my whole life upside down and shaking it hard to see what else falls out that I do not like. Thinking about my feelings; thinking about what I want - these are very foreign behaviors for me, though I'm starting to enjoy doing it without feeling guilty. Thinking hard about lessons learned that I can impart to my kids so that hopefully they won't have to have their lives upended in this way. Its all very scary, and I don't like admitting to fear. That said, I'm optimistic that its all going in a better direction though I do not know what, or who, will be down that new path...
I'll try to keep posting as I know that I appreciate the insight others offer, how helpful reading others stories are in my understanding my own journey, and that it helps me process my thoughts by the act of writing them.
Think I'll have to change my nickname to BigPost at this rate ;-)
Everyone stay strong, and keep with the program, there's hope for a better tomorrow even if you can't feel it today...
Been traveling for work a lot lately, so has been hard to check in on this board...
No changes in R. WAW is no longer talking about wanting out, and we've settled into this friendly roommate like arrangement. I guess that's better than the alternative, certainly for our kids since we're both around, no fighting, etc.
I've been struggling personally as there's been a lot of deaths around me recently. A co-worker died in an accident at a conference we were all at, and a new hire on my team had her sister die suddenly. These have hit me really hard as I've just wanted to hug my whole family, but I can't given current sitch. These events drove home that life is too short, and I'm feeling a lot of grief even though these people weren't that close to me - I just want to have my family back... I just want some joy in my life...
I guess its normal to be extra emotional given the roller coaster last 4 months...
Overall sitch is improving though still good and bad days. 5 or so months into DBing and takes a lot of disinclined to stay positive due to baby step improvements. Lots of personal improvements I feel good about that help sustain program, and celebrating those baby step improvements in MR keeps hope alive.
Very interesting how my sense of what detachment means and such has changed over 5 months - is quite a difficult journey, though keeping family together feels much better than the pain of separation and diverse especially to kids.
Everyone stay strong and dig deep into DB program. It's harder than you'll initially think, and it can help at least in my case. Long ways to go to get to a happy place though but it's better especially regarding how I feel about myself.
