"I miss you"s and "I love you"s are kind of double whammies. NOt only is it pursuing and needy, in the WAS's eyes it's kind of diminishing. They have told you what they want and need: distance, space, their life without you. When the LBS says these things they are kind of saying "yeah, yeah, I know that's what you say you need, but whatever, this is what *I* need. And if happens to trample down what you want I don't care." So the issue isn't that you show him you're attached, but that you aren't showing him Ciluzen 2.0 which acknowledges his voice.
I am a big believer in taking 5-10 minutes prior to any email, text, or scheduled call to prepare. Breath. Read the 37 rules. Pray for strength to let the strong, calm, present, higher self come through in your communication. Detach from your emotions and focus on the task at hand.
I can tell you that after BD I only had 1 'slip'. It was 4 months in, I was visiting the kids at her house (I had moved out), and she came home drunk. I allowed myself to get drawn into a bit of a spat about parenting time. She was talking about how I couldn't have overnights because it would 'disrupt the children's schedules, and I said DIVORCE disrupted their schedules, they needed a dad. Funny thing, 15 months later I said a similar thing to the social workers and got 50% custody. Still happy about that. Anyway, when I got home I emailed her, told her 'That was a difficult conversation. We never had the best communication when we were married, and now we are dealing with finances, parenting, legal stuff, can't get much tougher. It couldn't have felt that I heard what you're saying, so let me recap what I think you were telling me...' Then I went on to recap her points and validate and agree where I could.
Point is, I slipped once, I remember it vividly, I did damage control, and have batted about 1.000 since then. Not attacking you...just want you to know that it can be done. And when you do this, it feels really, really good. I'm not huge on saving face, it sounds like a pretty immature motivation. Prideful. We should be willing to bare our hearts to stand for what we believe. Etc. But the truth is they really don't want to hear from our hearts. Not now, and maybe never. So we're not saving face out of fear or shame. It's about placing enough value on ourselves to not give our inner-self to someone that wants to throw it away.
It's super tricky to detach. There is a ton of pain and anger on the other side, and it's easy to want to run from that and be like "I choose love, not anger", because it can feel better to be loving/needy than angry and hurt. But it's all inside of you. You will have to start dealing with that. Then you won't want to say "I miss you", but rather "I hate you". It will still take effort to have good conversations. Dealing with this mix of emotions is like swimming in a pool with icy cold and burning hot water. Sometimes you freeze, sometimes you burn, opposite emotions, both powerful and unpleasant. But if you can just let it wash over you, not let it force a reaction, and just work through the crazy thoughts these feelings generate...you will become triple tough. As a little time passes the water starts to mix, and get near room temperature, and it isn't as uncomfortable...and you will have thick skin, more clarity, and just be in a really good spot.
I love your Bambi comment.
Hang in there C, I think you're doing amazing.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Hi, Feyth. Those weak moments are my downfall. I know it was pursuing...I actually went over the conversation and counted 4 different types of subtle instances of pursuing behavior. That was just the obvious one.
Our lives are so intertwined it is hard to make a lot of space. I don't believe no contact is warranted or possible in our situation. So, to actually see how ill he was and to know he was heading home alone pulled a bit at my heartstrings. I know it was his choice, but that was hard to see.
I am trying to get used to being more "selfish" and make it about me, but when someone looks like they are in need that is the hardest thing for me to ignore. He just looked run down.
He is supposed to come by this weekend to go over some tax things with me. I am going to have to put some things in place to keep from pursuing or bringing up R. Its easier now, but who knows what will happen. So I will need to plan ahead. I hate that I have to think of a plan just to be well behaved around a person I could literally bare all to.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
"I miss you"s and "I love you"s are kind of double whammies. NOt only is it pursuing and needy, in the WAS's eyes it's kind of diminishing. They have told you what they want and need: distance, space, their life without you. When the LBS says these things they are kind of saying "yeah, yeah, I know that's what you say you need, but whatever, this is what *I* need. And if happens to trample down what you want I don't care." So the issue isn't that you show him you're attached, but that you aren't showing him Ciluzen 2.0 which acknowledges his voice.
I am a big believer in taking 5-10 minutes prior to any email, text, or scheduled call to prepare. Breath. Read the 37 rules. Pray for strength to let the strong, calm, present, higher self come through in your communication. Detach from your emotions and focus on the task at hand.
Man, am I ever trying to do this. Most of the time it goes very well. I was pretty taken aback, though, seeing him look so run down and sick. He very seldom gets sick and it really worried me. Focus blown.
I can tell you that after BD I only had 1 'slip'. It was 4 months in, I was visiting the kids at her house (I had moved out), and she came home drunk. I allowed myself to get drawn into a bit of a spat about parenting time. She was talking about how I couldn't have overnights because it would 'disrupt the children's schedules, and I said DIVORCE disrupted their schedules, they needed a dad. Funny thing, 15 months later I said a similar thing to the social workers and got 50% custody. Still happy about that. Anyway, when I got home I emailed her, told her 'That was a difficult conversation. We never had the best communication when we were married, and now we are dealing with finances, parenting, legal stuff, can't get much tougher. It couldn't have felt that I heard what you're saying, so let me recap what I think you were telling me...' Then I went on to recap her points and validate and agree where I could.
Point is, I slipped once, I remember it vividly, I did damage control, and have batted about 1.000 since then. Not attacking you...just want you to know that it can be done. And when you do this, it feels really, really good. I'm not huge on saving face, it sounds like a pretty immature motivation. Prideful. We should be willing to bare our hearts to stand for what we believe. Etc. But the truth is they really don't want to hear from our hearts. Not now, and maybe never. So we're not saving face out of fear or shame. It's about placing enough value on ourselves to not give our inner-self to someone that wants to throw it away.
Good point. I'm realizing how I've spent my whole marriage telling him how I felt about everything, good or bad, great insights to trivial cr#p, and calling it communication. But really not giving him the chance to say anything without having me discount, correct, defend against, or interrupt what he was saying. I was a horrible listener. I prided myself on both being honest and not asking questions. Those are not actually things to take pride in when trying to have good communication, I know realize. And now he really doesn't want to hear me talk, especially not about my feelings. GO FIGURE, right?
It's super tricky to detach. There is a ton of pain and anger on the other side, and it's easy to want to run from that and be like "I choose love, not anger", because it can feel better to be loving/needy than angry and hurt. But it's all inside of you. You will have to start dealing with that. Then you won't want to say "I miss you", but rather "I hate you". It will still take effort to have good conversations. Dealing with this mix of emotions is like swimming in a pool with icy cold and burning hot water. Sometimes you freeze, sometimes you burn, opposite emotions, both powerful and unpleasant. But if you can just let it wash over you, not let it force a reaction, and just work through the crazy thoughts these feelings generate...you will become triple tough. As a little time passes the water starts to mix, and get near room temperature, and it isn't as uncomfortable...and you will have thick skin, more clarity, and just be in a really good spot.
Problem is, I don't really have any anger toward him at all anymore. I understand too much of what I did. I don't agree with some of the things that he has done, but I get the motivation. I am far angrier with myself at this point, but that is greatly diminished with the realization that I can't change the past. I can only change my present self and the bad habits that have made my quality of life so bad. And I am really putting in overtime on this. I will not hate him for not wanting to be with the person I was...I wouldn't want to be with her either.
I love your Bambi comment.
Hang in there C, I think you're doing amazing.
Thanks, Zues. You really were the person who most changed my thinking from victim to...whatever I become when I'm done.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
I hate that I have to think of a plan just to be well behaved around a person I could literally bare all to.
I agree, this is one of the hardest things about our situations. Having to reign ourselves in with someone who we've shared everything with, intimate times, good times, bad times, fun times...and now we have to be nothing more than civil. It bites.
Good luck with the meeting, I hope you manage to stick to the no R talk.
I'm going to call today a success, at least in terms of growth.
I went to church and was moved by a very inspiring sermon on forgiving others (forgiveness is the theme this month).
Church was out at 10:45 so I went to a sports pub to watch the rest of the first half of the Seahawks game (we were losing... badly) and eat.
Then I went to the theater to see "The Revenant" (intense,but great movie).
It ended 20 minutes before my book club at a local restaurant.
Due to my thoughts during this morning's sermon and my sudden loss of negative feelings toward various people in my life, when the hostess (Bubbles' sister, for anyone who followed my thread) came in to the restaurant, I asked her forgiveness. I apologized for venting about everything including my feelings about her sister and H. She didn't need to be pulled in to the situation, especially since it was her sis. She seemed relieved and happier once the air was cleared.
After book club, I also pulled Bubbles aside before we left and apologized to her for my escalating anger, jealousy, and general bad behavior towards her over the years. Explained how I had fixated on the relationship between she and H, and explained that I didn't realize why he was pulling away from me at the time and blamed her. I also let her know that I had nothing against her and cared very much for her still. And that I still loved him very much. She gave me a big hug and we talked a bit about my situation. She apologized to me, as well.
I feel even lighter getting rid of that burden. Progress for me emotionally.
Skiing tomorrow.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Ciluzen - you are making some excellent progress! Having on to bad feelings just does more to harm you than it does others - but you've discovered they do notice.
This was a really good thing you did - you definitely showed that you're made of good stuff!
Thank you again, Ancaire. You seem to be making some great moves and changes, as well. What's that saying? Change or die?
I understand now when people say "your old marriage is dead". I know mine is. It needed to die.
But so did the old me. I was unhappy. I just was existing, complaining, and following H around or, worse, watching him have fun while I withdrew and pouted, then attacked him out of jealousy because he was having fun without me.
Change or die. I had to let that me die. I'm working on rebirth right now. Its hard, but getting easier. Each little challenge, each little step towards unburdening or growth. I can feel those wings growing. I can feel the lightness.
My hope is that H at some point notices it too. That does matter to me. It should. I'd like a new marriage, as well. But I'm not in control of that.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Had a great day skiing...had to come home and get straight into the bath so that I can hopefully walk tomorrow, LOL. Met up with a new friend and skied with her a bit, and saw a few others that I knew. Lots of morning ski runs by myself, though. Snuck in a few big challenges, conquered them, and overcame my fears. Big self confidence boosters today.
I gave up on H coming over for the tax stuff, but my cell phone kept going off while I was in the tub. When I finally got out and checked, it was H and he was almost to the house. He had left the hill a bit later and still wanted to do tax stuff.
Long story short we ended up talking, laughing, behaving "as if". He noticed I had pulled pork in the crock pot so I offered to pack up some of that and some black bean soup I made. He said, "that would be great, but I don't mind eating some here". So we had dinner together. He dug through our wine rack and even poured us each a glass of wine.
No R talk. Just catching up.
I never ran into him at the mountain, but one of the mountain staff let him know he saw me. So we both talked about our day there (him more than me). I let him tell me stories and share ideas. Used my new listening skills; validated when I could, listened well, and asked questions to clarify points. Go me!
He kept bringing up things, movies we both had seen years ago, inside jokes, news items, etc. and saying, "no one gets the joke/ reference when I say that, except you." A few times he referenced things I've told him (health stuff) that I always thought he ignored out of spite, and told me how he does/ doesn't do that now because I had told him about it. Like he can now accept that advice and wanted me to know it. I just smiled or laughed each time or made some neutral comment...with a smile. It was a very pleasant end to a very fun but tiring day.
Once again, no expectations. But for the first time, it wasn't hard to not bring up R.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
ciluzen - That was a really positive exchange! You are really doing such a phenomenal job in your situation. Now, the goal is to just keep building from these positive interactions, keeping expectations low (like you're doing) and monitoring which actions you take get the best results.
Thanks for sharing! It really is good to know about positive happenings.
