So to make a long story short- H & I had an avoid-avoid type relationship... So no fighting, we stuffed it or acted out in other ways. I withdrew, he pursued. For many years. He thought I was done w/ him & having an affair but he never pushed to find anything out.
Fast forward to February. I find out he has been cheating on me for about 4 months w/ someone he supervises at work. I confront & our marriage problems are then put out there (what he thought, why I withdrew, etc). He said he was "putting it on hold" but I saw no changes in him, just myself. 2 weeks later I discover the relationship is still on. I confront, he comes home from work & his tune has changed. He allows me complete access, passwords, he answers all my questions, & offers to go to counseling. (He is clearly worried I will leave.)
We do marriage counseling ... About 20 hours. Feel pretty good about things but I am still working through some affair things (not always in a healthy way). Then bam- he is on my computer & sees a convo w/ my sister where I make fun of him (to make myself feel better about an affair issue) & where I confessed a crazy suspicion I'd had when my H was having the affair (due to his weird behavior) about him doing something damaging to our kids (it was not actually anything he had done & I did point this out, it was just a passing fear that I'd checked into back when all that was going on). So this really messed him up. He was more mad than I have ever seen him & it was intense for weeks.
Fast forward. It's been 5 weeks. He has not been so mad for the past 2 weeks or so & sending mixed signals (putting his arm around me in bed & later saying he had been sleeping) But I still have no access, he is acting suspiciously (hiding phone while typing), etc. I begin to feel like he is playing games. It is no longer about me hurting him.
So I put a voice activated recording device in the car. Sure enough- he is communicating with her via either text, email, or some messenger. So far what has been said is not lovey dovey... Just sharing information (like a confrontation we had, him saying he is getting tired of me, him asking about something she said in response to some apology he sent her).
So I am glad to have this information, even if it has caused me to lose sleep. I was very much playing the repentant spouse role & he was keeping that going so that he could do what he wanted. I feel like I am better able to look at this situation objectively.
I will continue recording to see if it is a full blown affair but I already feel like he has taken things too far. Is it considered an affair to restart communication w/ the person you had an affair with before? I am leaning towards yes.
I have always said I would leave if he has another affair.
Another complication- we have a vacation coming up in 2.5 weeks... A 16 day vacation!
I would love advice from the vets!
T: 14 M: 12 D: 9 S: 6 BD: 2/18/15 (H affair) Working on marriage: 3/12/15-6/11/15 Broken Trust (my error): 6/11/15 H ring off: 7/6/15; Comm w/ OW confirmed 7/13/15 H wants to work on fixing things: 7/21/15
When they do that, you should call them out on it, saying plainly that YOU will be taking their secrecy and lack of transparency as an indication that they are still in contact, or want to be able to be if they desire, and you will be proceeding with your own decision-making accordingly.
Starsky
Makes total sense. But figuring out what that decision-making part is... very difficult.
Very true. But just like in geopolitics, it's often more important for your adversary to know that "all options are on the table," than it is for you yourself to really have to know exactly WHICH option you're going to take, or how or when. Us humans really are path-of-least-resistance creatures (especially us men!); when we know that you're not going anywhere, and aren't going to require of us any painful change, we tend to continue on our same path -- even when it's a destructive one.
In all my years here, I've never seen a single successful affair-bust or divorce-bust where the wayward spouse didn't first feel a credible fear of losing the betrayed spouse.
Starsky
Should I email this to my H? Should I draw the line that any relationship outside of work w/ the OW is not acceptable to me?
T: 14 M: 12 D: 9 S: 6 BD: 2/18/15 (H affair) Working on marriage: 3/12/15-6/11/15 Broken Trust (my error): 6/11/15 H ring off: 7/6/15; Comm w/ OW confirmed 7/13/15 H wants to work on fixing things: 7/21/15
Very true. But just like in geopolitics, it's often more important for your adversary to know that "all options are on the table," than it is for you yourself to really have to know exactly WHICH option you're going to take, or how or when. Us humans really are path-of-least-resistance creatures (especially us men!); when we know that you're not going anywhere, and aren't going to require of us any painful change, we tend to continue on our same path -- even when it's a destructive one.
In all my years here, I've never seen a single successful affair-bust or divorce-bust where the wayward spouse didn't first feel a credible fear of losing the betrayed spouse.
Starsky
T: 14 M: 12 D: 9 S: 6 BD: 2/18/15 (H affair) Working on marriage: 3/12/15-6/11/15 Broken Trust (my error): 6/11/15 H ring off: 7/6/15; Comm w/ OW confirmed 7/13/15 H wants to work on fixing things: 7/21/15
I'm glad you summoned up the courage to find out definitively what's going on, but I'm a little confused. How does a voice-activated recorder turn up communication via "text, email, or some messenger" ??
Just a word of caution, check the laws in your jurisdiction about recording someone who doesn't have knowledge they're being recorded. In whose name is your husband's car title? Also, NEVER put your own voice on there. You'd be surprised how many betrayed spouses put their own voice on the recorder at the beginning, with the ol' "testing, 1-2-3, testing . . . " thing. Instead, use "tongue clicks" or "finger snaps" or some other noise if you want to verify that the VAR is recording. That way, if he finds it, you can claim you have no idea how it got there.
Should I email this to my H? Should I draw the line that any relationship outside of work w/ the OW is not acceptable to me?
No, no emails. Get DEFINITIVE, 100% proof first, and then confront him in person (rehearsing ahead of time, out loud while alone if you have to), and then you can follow THAT up with an email to clarify any points you feel need clarifying after the confrontation, or add anything you forgot to address.
And yes, continued contact with an affair partner without the consent of the betrayed spouse is absolutely a continuation of the affair. It's a betrayal.
I'm glad you summoned up the courage to find out definitively what's going on, but I'm a little confused. How does a voice-activated recorder turn up communication via "text, email, or some messenger" ??
Just a word of caution, check the laws in your jurisdiction about recording someone who doesn't have knowledge they're being recorded. In whose name is your husband's car title? Also, NEVER put your own voice on there. You'd be surprised how many betrayed spouses put their own voice on the recorder at the beginning, with the ol' "testing, 1-2-3, testing . . . " thing. Instead, use "tongue clicks" or "finger snaps" or some other noise if you want to verify that the VAR is recording. That way, if he finds it, you can claim you have no idea how it got there.
Starsky
He uses voice to text while driving. So he speaks & his phone types.
Not sure about laws... I know we live in a no fault state so infideltiy has no bearing on the divorce proceedings. I do not have my voice on the recorder. I believe the car is also in my name but would have to double check.
T: 14 M: 12 D: 9 S: 6 BD: 2/18/15 (H affair) Working on marriage: 3/12/15-6/11/15 Broken Trust (my error): 6/11/15 H ring off: 7/6/15; Comm w/ OW confirmed 7/13/15 H wants to work on fixing things: 7/21/15
Should I email this to my H? Should I draw the line that any relationship outside of work w/ the OW is not acceptable to me?
No, no emails. Get DEFINITIVE, 100% proof first, and then confront him in person (rehearsing ahead of time, out loud while alone if you have to), and then you can follow THAT up with an email to clarify any points you feel need clarifying after the confrontation, or add anything you forgot to address.
And yes, continued contact with an affair partner without the consent of the betrayed spouse is absolutely a continuation of the affair. It's a betrayal.
Starsky
Proof of an actual affair? I have proof that they are in communication but I don't want to reveal my recordings in case it goes further & I can get more info. So I guess I am not sure how to proceed meanwhile. He is picking up on something ... Last night when I got into bed I had my phone on & he quickly moved towards me to get to where he could see what I was doing on my phone & said "what are you doing??" I was just looking at fb so I said- "looking at fb... Is that interesting?"
I really feel like he has me where he wants me... He is able to go back to his private ways, have a relationship w/ this other woman (I think friends now but he probably hopes to work his way back in), & keep the family unit in tact. And he has me in a position of me screwing up... So he feels like he can do whatever he wants.
I am a stay at home mom ... So this makes it easier for him to depend on my staying put.
T: 14 M: 12 D: 9 S: 6 BD: 2/18/15 (H affair) Working on marriage: 3/12/15-6/11/15 Broken Trust (my error): 6/11/15 H ring off: 7/6/15; Comm w/ OW confirmed 7/13/15 H wants to work on fixing things: 7/21/15
I really feel like he has me where he wants me... He is able to go back to his private ways, have a relationship w/ this other woman (I think friends now but he probably hopes to work his way back in), & keep the family unit in tact. And he has me in a position of me screwing up... So he feels like he can do whatever he wants.
I am a stay at home mom ... So this makes it easier for him to depend on my staying put.
As a SAHM myself, I can tell you, hope, that this is a self-created prison.
You're trying to jump into your H's mind and figure out what he's thinking and feeling. And at the end of the day, what he's thinking and feeling really doesn't matter much.
But this is precisely where I'd start trying to do some 180s.
If you feel trapped, like your H has you where he wants you, what would be a 180?
Here's a good one: Plan a girls' night with some friends. Make sure you have a babysitter lined up. Ask H first if he can be available to watch the kids. If he asks you where you're going, smile and say, "Just out with some friends." Never offer more information than that.
Dress in a new outfit. Wear a new perfume. Look drop-dead gorgeous. Be confident. If H asks you when you'll be home, simply tell him not to wait up.
You may feel this will backfire. And it may seem like it does at first because he's probably going to pull out all the stops to "retaliate" or to regain what he perceives as "control" of the situation.
Don't go out of your way to make your H think you're having an A - or anything of that nature - just show him you are going to continue living your life ... and enjoying it ... no matter what he does.
As Starsky says: People - especially men - value most that which is difficult to obtain.
Take your own power back. Because THAT is attractive.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
I believe the car is also in my name but would have to double check.
In most states, you have the right to monitor where YOUR car is at all times, so if you're on the title, you're probably okay here. I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once though!
I have proof that they are in communication but I don't want to reveal my recordings in case it goes further & I can get more info.
Good instincts. NEVER give up the source of your intel, if you can at all avoid it. Simply ask him to tell you the truth, and if he lies to you, say "I know all about you and _______, and that it's still going on (don't say "still talking," or "still texting"), so please STOP IT. We both know you're lying to me right now, and it's incredibly disrespectful to me and to our marriage and to our family."
If he lies again, end the conversation, saying "When you're ready to be truthful with me, we can talk. I think you at least owe me that much."
(I even played the card of "We've always taught our children that 'FAMILIES DON'T LIE TO EACH OTHER,' and I'm not going to start now. I can't stop you from having an affair -- you're a grown woman and that's your choice. But I WILL not live in an open marriage, and I WILL not tolerate you lying to me and to our adult children about what you're doing, and making ME out like I'm the crazy one here. It's time to STOP THE DECEIT -- either you tell them the truth, or I will."
And I gave her all of 5 minutes to decide.)
Sorry, I'm rambling. I mainly meant to say to NEVER give up the source how you know -- just that you know. There is great power in him not knowing what you know, and what you DON'T know, and he will then have to assume you know EVERYTHING. If he presses you on what you think you know, or how you know it, just say "I'm not going to tell you that, and frankly I don't think I owe you any answers in that regard. You are the one that has the explaining to do, and if you continue to lie to my face about it, I will end the conversation each and every time."
