I have read Sandi's thread on WW / WAW's many times. I do see a lot of similarities in our case, but just can't see an affair, and don't believe one is going on. Maybe I am completely blind. I have a hard time differentiating between a WW and a WAW and what I should do. She says I pushed her away. Do those same rules apply here as they do if she was having an affair? I think not, but maybe I am wrong. 180's for me are: not going out, getting up earlier, I run, I help with household chores, I have done some projects around the house I kept putting off. It is not that I was never home before, I was there every day, but now "it's annoying, because it is not me." She wants space, and I give it to her. I don't tell her I love her, especially when the kids are around, because she can't say it back and I don't want them to blame her. I give her space in the house, but don't make myself unavailable to my kids either. I do live there.
My sister has told me once this started or became apparent to me that she thinks my wife has little to no self esteem (although she is smart, talented, beautiful and I told her as much), she gets it from performing. I can see that point. She has always sang, but performing out is still relatively new (2 years +) for her and she keeps getting better gigs as she builds her reputation. She has also taken on a lot more responsibility at work and is doing very well there too. I am proud of her, but also think this all may be why she wants out. She can financially take care of herself and doesn't need me anymore. Does that make sense?
I have not brought up discussing our relationship with her for a while, I let her come to me. The last time I did was when our counselor asked us to discuss a healing separation before we went back, was it something we wanted to try or not? I told her that "Whenever you are ready we need to talk about it. Let me know when you want to." It turned into a rehash of the same old stuff we always talk about. That was 3 weeks ago and my wife has not gone back to the counselor, though I have kept our appointments. We have another one tomorrow, I hope she comes.
I think affair or not sounds the same. You won't here I don't love you because I love someone else. It will be other things like you pushed me away, you were emotionally unavailable, you didn't support my dreams, we never were in love.
It's hard to give space when you live together, but just make sure you aren't like a little puppy around her, or kiss butt. You can be kind, cordial, receptive without looking too much like the guy that got kicked to the curb and is desperate to win her back. It's a fine line. Do you have friends that you can go do something fun with? Something that isn't old habits like the bar all night? Catch a show, go play darts or pool. Pull a 180 by going out with friends that doesn't involve drinking. Puttering around the house all the time isn't necessary. You are also allowed to have a life outside home
PP, I truly do appreciate that. I have asked myself the same question before. I admit that over 5 years ago, my drinking was a problem and I was falling off the wagon. I went to an accredited outpatient program voluntarily for it. I quit drinking for over a year. While in the program we discussed many things and went over a lot of topics. I heard a lot of things from other patients and applied them. I held nothing back and was honest. My outgoing assessment was good, I guess. They didn't think I was an alcoholic, but cautioned I did need to be careful. I knew that I did and for the most part have been. I vowed never to put my kids through what I went through with my mom, I understood it was my mom's disease, but the genes were there. I need to be careful, but also don't want to live scared my entire life. I rarely went to the bar and most every time was with her. I did drink a beer or have a glass of wine with her several times since the BD, and those times were the few times I felt she actually relaxed some. By no means did we get drunk or even over drink. If we go on a date to a winery (she likes to, and has gone several times without me as well since), what else would she expect other than to have a glass of wine? Maybe they were tests I failed.
My wife is still stuck in the past though. It is the reason I brought it up in the beginning. I don't want to run away from it, but it is really hard to accept that the last five years were so bad that she is done. It is also where I think it might be an excuse rather than the reason. Maybe she just let it simmer under the surface for a long time it finally let go. For her to start questioning things from so long ago seems odd to me. I am not saying I was perfect. I got carried away sometimes, but just have a hard time reconciling it, other than it was a trigger for her.
Maybe letting go has been discussed here and I can't find it, but at this point, this is the hardest thing for me to do. I still love my wife.
Here's my abbreviated backstory. Eight months ago, my wife told me she thought she was done. I was floored. I acknowledge we had some minor, at least to me, issues, but I was floored. I did the wrong begging / pleading routine for a short time and then found this place. I got a life (kind of), did some 180's, reconnected with some old friends (most all of our close friends now are our 'couples' friends who seem to avoid both of us right now), regularly go to church with the kids, etc. I posted here about six months ago after reading these forums daily for a month. I have read DR plus a lot of other books, and followed Sandi's rules to the best of my ability. It didn't work, I think she had already made up her mind and nothing was going to change it. About four months ago, my wife said she wanted to separate, rented an apartment and moved out. We have 3 children (8-12) and co-parenting them, though I spend more time with them than she does. The kids don't like the apartment and hate the situation, but won't tell her because "she'll get mad." We have gone to counseling both as a couple as well as with the kids. The kids also go individually, but hate it.
A month ago, after three months of separation, my wife told me she would like to proceed with a dissolution. She wants out of her apartment (now she hates it) and would like to buy a house, but needs her equity in our house to proceed. One day she doesn't love me anymore. The next, she still does love me, but can't be married to me, though maybe one day we will find each other again. (She told me this within the last week.) That is pretty damn confusing to me and makes it very difficult to let go. I realize there is not much I can do to prevent her present course. She knows I don't want it, that I still love her (I told her that I wouldn't say it anymore, but know I still do). So what else can I do but grant it? I guess I consider it a gift of love to her. Otherwise, I am just invalidating her wishes and desires.
My biggest problem is our interactions with each other. Sometimes they are good, others she is short and distant. I have tried to remain on a relatively even keel with all of them (a couple times she got to me). If our kids weren't involved, it would be a lot easier. Unfortunately , or maybe fortunately, I see her almost every day because of the kids (sporting events, activities, etc.) I don't want to disrupt my kids lives anymore than they already have been. We work pretty good together coordinating their schedules, but when I see her or spend a little bit of time with her, I miss her more. It tears me apart. So I guess the question I have is this. How do you let go when you still love your partner and still have almost daily interactions with them? I am stumped and its killing me.
I merged your post in with your previous thread, please stick to one thread until 100 posts.
Have you read all the homework in my first post? Including the resource threads?
She seems to be following the script with confusion. Note that confusion is the greatest at the start of this, and at the end.
I understand you still love her, however you need to protect yourself and your children. She thinks that divorce is the magic bullet that will give her happiness. The more you stand in the way of her quest for happiness the longer this takes, you need to "let go" and as you said do it because you love her. Let her do the work for the divorce. Don't help her do it.
Why do you say that following "the rules" didn't work? Are you suggesting that you're done following them? What is your plan instead? How did she react when you said toil always love her?
How is your GAL going?
It doesn't sound like you are terribly detached? How is that going?
A month ago, after three months of separation, my wife told me she would like to proceed with a dissolution. She wants out of her apartment (now she hates it) and would like to buy a house, but needs her equity in our house to proceed.
You need to talk to an attorney but don't tell her about it. Get the info you need so you can start preparing yourself for that possibility should it arise. An L can advise on things like not moving out of your house or doing things that indicate abandonment, etc. Protect yourself.
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One day she doesn't love me anymore. The next, she still does love me, but can't be married to me, though maybe one day we will find each other again. (She told me this within the last week.) That is pretty damn confusing to me and makes it very difficult to let go.
It's meaningless. She may be confused herself. She may be trying to justify things to herself. She may be soft-selling it to you so that you will go along with what she wants. Or all of the above, and more. The fact that she's all over the place should tell you you need to simply disregard it. She's confused. There may indeed be another man. Be prepared for anything. One saying around here: Believe nothing you hear and only have of what you see from her.
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I realize there is not much I can do to prevent her present course.
It's one thing to realize it. It's quite another to practice the consequences of that understanding. You can only control you. Focus on yourself and become the kind of H only a fool would leave. Worst case...you end up in the best place possible for yourself and your kids.
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So what else can I do but grant it?
You have no real choice in the matter. She can force it through the courts regardless of your wishes. It's not about you granting it. It's about you backing off and letting her do all the work (while you still talk to a L to find out what you need to do to protect yourself and your interests legally).
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I guess I consider it a gift of love to her. Otherwise, I am just invalidating her wishes and desires.
Why think of it in emotional and relationship terms at all? There is no magic phrase or perspective that will change her mind or make her happy with you. If she serves you with papers it has nothing to do with gifts of love or anything else. It has to do with you taking care of legal business and protecting yourself. She no longer is someone you can trust who has your best interests at heart. She is focused on hers.
If you have to say something, you might say something like, "I don't want a D or think it's the answer here but if that's what you choose I accept the consequences of that decision." And leave it at that.
The only thing to be done is for you to GAL and detach, release her to her choices and move forward in your own life with your kids in a way that's best for you without her. She likely won't choose to come back if you're pursuing her or she's entangled with you. You have to let her keep moving so that she gains some distance and perspective. Maybe she looks back at what she's leaving and decides she likes what she sees and changes her mind. Maybe she doesn't and continues with the D anyway. Letting her go helps release you from the pain of attachment to her. I know it hurts like hell right now. It will for a while, but it will get better if you don't obsess and dwell on it, if you focus on yourself. Not only by realizing things, but by putting into practice what actually works. I've been there, been going through it myself, so I understand. Unfortunately, there are no shortcuts here. But there is a healthy path through it.
You let go by focusing on yourself, doing things for you, doing things with and for your kids. Even if she changes her mind it will likely be weeks and still months even. You have to have a life in the meantime so that you're not just sitting around pining over her. It svcks, but it is what it is.
Detachment. Ugh, hard one for me, and seeing her everyday certainly doesn't help. I have read everything, multiple times. While I don't agree with everything I read, I typically gain something from just about everything and roll it into my own opinion/application. I see an counselor, who whether he is just blowing smoke or not, applauds me on my efforts, first to save my marriage and then on how I've grown through this process. The knowledge I've gained about my perspective on life and who I want to be has been awesome. I am truly thankful for that.
Also, I have spoken with a lawyer. There is not much she wants other than her share of equity in the house. She does not want a divorce, but rather a dissolution, which is a lot less expensive and moves along much quicker. I have though about just not agreeing to it and making her file for divorce. I just don't want this to be any messier for the kids than it already is, so again following my own thoughts, with the advice of just about everyone else I've talked to, just give it to her. Make it quick and as painless as possible. I tend to agree with this. The problem is and where I am at right now is that I almost wish I could just go completely dark. No contact. I can't because of the kids, so I see her and am just like "#$%#". I think it might be my last hurdle, but also my hardest. It is at least to date.
I agree with your friends here. Do not do the work of getting the divorce or dissolution. If W wants it, she needs to do the work to get it. No need to make it easier for her. You are not standing in her way, but don't do the work either.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
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