I have been lurking for the past month or so, and I have finally decided to share my story. My wife and I have been married for almost 15 years. We have 3 wonderful children, D11, S10, and S7. I am a "great dad" (her words), but could have been a better husband. To cut to the chase, our biggest and most common fight was when I would go out with friends drinking, sometimes too often and sometimes to excess. I do not consider myself an alcoholic, but realize that I at times drank too much. My group of friends were what I would consider heavy social drinkers and I was one of them. It may sound dumb, but I never realized how much I hurt her. My wife would get mad at me, and I took it as that, she was mad. I never understood that she was also hurt, felt abandoned, felt disrespected, etc. To top it all off, she now thinks I cheated on her with one of our friends. I didn't, but know I didn't do myself any favors by being out late. We live in a small town and rumors spread. Now there is one about me. I have heard things about her, which I know are not true, but when you have friends of the opposite sex, it allows the opportunity for them to start. It blows. Unfortunately for me, it took her telling me she was done before I finally opened my eyes. So for the past two months I have been trying to save my marriage, one day at a time. I know I have made mistakes along the way (reasoning, taking too much, even pleading). So although I have read everything on Cadets welcome reply, the Divorce Remedy, as well as a lot of other outside things, I am coming to you for help and support.
I think one area where I am stuck is that my situation is a little different than most I have read. A lot of what my wife tells me are things that would tell me she is having an affair. ILYBIANILWY, she needs space, she is very private with her phone, etc. Maybe I am just completely blind, but there is just not the opportunity for it. The secrecy more involves the advise she is getting from a small group of friends, with what I would call a ringleader pushing her to end it. This ringleader has been "friends" with my wife ever since we got married (my wife moved to my hometown when we got married), but that friendship had eroded until this winter. They started talking a lot more and that is when our downhill fall started. She does not like me nor I her. So my problem isn't another man, maybe my wife is considered wayward, but it is a different kind of waywardness.
I've been "investigated" which is where the rumor arose. I have been accused of being a gambling addict, a sex addict, among other things. I am not. I brought this up at marriage counseling at one point and she said she doesn't remember saying that. She did. The minimal amount of things that I am aware this "investigation" has turned up is from years ago and untrue, misremembered, or already known. For instance, my SIL was asked if I was ever inappropriate. Her response was no, but one time 10 or 11 years ago I sent her an email that said "I had a dream about you last night." She called my brother who confronted me and I told him, "Don't worry about it" or "wouldn't you like to know." I didn't remember it and neither did he, but I went back and found the email. It's subject was 'Thinking about you' and the message did say 'I had a dream about you last night'. Also attached were 5 pictures of my wife and I giving our two month old son a bath. My SIL was nine months pregnant at the time with their first child. I don't remember sending it, could have maybe worded it better, but I don't see how it could be any more innocent. I forwarded it to everybody, but never heard one thing about it after. At least this instance I still had proof.
At the same time, I don't want to minimize my faults in getting our marriage to the place it is now. I know I bear the brunt of the blame for where we are at. I own that and have been working on myself immensely. I was never one to look for outside help. I kept my emotions to myself. My wife did suggest marriage counseling in December which I foolishly refused. I wish I had. I was selfish in my desire to go out drinking with the boys. I usually never went until everyone was in bed so I wasn't taking time from my family. Flawed thinking I know, but I can't change it. I made mistakes. I am not perfect. One of the counselors I went to told me, "You guys F'd up the past, un-F the future." I am ready and able for that, but right now she can't let go of the past.
Our situation right now is the same as it was 2 months ago. BD was April 25th. We still live in the same house, sleep in the same bed, parent our kids together. There is no sex. My wife says she does not love me. We both went to marriage counseling together twice and I have gone alone twice. I have seen two different IC's. Detaching is hard, but I have tried very hard to. I have done some 180's. I think they started for her but now realize they are for me. I am happier with myself than I have been, maybe ever. I have changed. She sees it and acknowledges it, but thinks it's fake and that I am just "playing a game." At one point she wanted to separate and maybe still does. I told her that I did not want that, but would grant if she needed it because I loved her. It was her choice, not mine. I can't make her stay, but I am also not leaving. I am fighting for our marriage. Maybe it's too late. When we talk she tells me she "can't keep doing this." I agree. So what are our choices? I did ask for the courtesy of her letting me know if she was going to file for divorce. I do not want to be blindsided by it. She told me she does not want to file for divorce. Every time we talk it devolves into the same old thing. I try not to let it, but she can't let it go. I understand it will take time, and for now I have been granted it. All I can do is keep working on myself and be patient.
So here I am today, with all of my flaws, hoping for for a chance at reconciliation. I don't know if I will get it, but I want to be able to say I did everything I could to get it. I love her.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Elk - I read through your post, and while you repeatedly talk about owning your faults, the only thing you actually lost as a fault is maybe drinking too much too often. I'm guessing you going out or staying out too late a few extra times is not the only problem.
So what have you identified as trouble points? What are you 180ing if this is the only issue?
What you are doing is not working, it always ends up join the same place as you say. So try a different approach. Revise what your goal is. This has to be consistent change for her to be convinced and there e has only been a couple of months since BD - so it is too early to expect that.
it sounds like you are pursuing. maybe the best thing for you to do is nothing. it is not something which you are going resolve right now. so stop trying to. it just goes nowhere, and possibly makes things worse.
keep up the 180s. you are still visible, she will see the changes, keep them up, don't advertise them to her. I hope one of them is NOT going out drinking with your buddies.
M: 6 T: 12 Kids: 2,4 BD: Jan 2015 S: Feb 2015 EA/PA confirmed: Feb2015/Mar2015
Our situations sound similar. I was not as much of a heavy drinker as a heavy pot smoker, but the drinking was in there too. As of today, I haven't touched either in 156 days. Whether you identify yourself as an alcoholic or not (I didn't), it was made abundantly clear to me when my W left that people without a problem don't usually have their spouses leave over it.
Truthfully my friend, the drinking and smoking were not the problem, what they were covering up and my unwillingness to address those deeper issues were what was the real challenge. It took months of sobriety before those issues started to bubble to the surface but now that I know what they are and can really work on them as opposed to just staying abstinent from substances, I'm getting some where.
Check out an AA meeting. They're free. Just go and listen. See if people's stories resonate with yours. If drinking was important enough to ignore your W's request for counseling over, it's covering something pretty deep.
My 2 c anyway.
Sorry you're here, keep posting.
PP
M 39 W 36 T5 M3 BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day Served 9/15 D finalized 6/17
Drinking too much and too often is my biggest fault. I was at my worst 5 or 6 years ago, but I still would go out from time to time now (sometimes once every couple months, sometimes 2 weeks in a row). It slowly eroded her. It was a cyclical problem. I did not do it all the time, but when I did, it ended in an argument. I felt I should be allowed to go out with my friends, and she did not appreciate we did it at the bar til all hours of the night. More recent, though it quit ending in an argument, but I was not going out or drinking as much, and attributed it to that.
As our marriage deteriorated, which was a gradual deterioration, we both distanced ourselves from each other. I sensed her distancing, so I did too in response. As I felt more insecure in our relationship, I became controlling. I started snooping. The trust between both of us faded. I felt I was losing her, but did everything wrong. She essentially gave up, and instead dove into her escape, which is playing the piano, guitar and singing. She performs at local wineries and festivals and is very talented. I enjoy listening to her sing and being her "roadie". I did have a problem when every weekend she had a gig. I am not saying I didn't support her, because I did, I just felt that we needed time to do other things as a family in addition. Every other weekend worked. She backed off of her bookings, but I know she resented it. This also led to invitations for her to join bands which I was strongly against. She was already spending a lot of time working on her solo music, to add playing in a band with band practice and then performances was something I was against. She realized the time commitment and logistics of it, but I think still wanted it. It also carried over into our home life. On days she didn't work, I would come home, the house was a mess, and she was in playing the piano or guitar. It frustrated me and I did not hide it.
Our three kids are very active as well. We are constantly running them somewhere. I have coached baseball for 7 or 8 years. Our daughter is very active in gymnastics and needs run to practice 3 times a week a half hour away. I work full time 6 days a week. My wife cut back to one day a week while our kids were at home, but once they all got to school, she has been working more and is almost full time now. I make a point to meet her for lunch whenever I can swing it, usually at least once a month. We went out to dinner, we got babysitters, we did things together. But for her there was always a "cloud" over us. I didn't see it. I had fun with her and cherished our time together alone. I loved our time together as a family, too, but knew we needed to do things together as a couple.
So now, there is no good in our marriage in her eyes, only bad. She can't or won't acknowledge it. Maybe it was 15 years of hell for her. She has dealt with depression in the past, and was on medicine for a while, which she quit because it caused her to gain weight. I would suspect she is still dealing with it, but I have not brought it up. Anything I say is "manipulative". We have poor communication. We never resolved our past issues. Stupidly I thought we had though. She kept them pent up until they finally erupted. She is very resentful and bitter. Her heart is hardened towards me. Since, I have tried changing the way I communicate with her. I do validate her feelings, I speak in a calm voice. I don't want to brush it under the rug. We need to address it and try to fix it. Maybe we can't, but we won't know until we try. She asked to before and I wasn't receptive, and now she doesn't want to try. I hope in time she will.
Thank you. I appreciate it and accept it. I have not been going out. I have drank a beer or had a glass of wine a couple of times with her, though. She tells me, whether it is true or not, that drinking is not the problem. The problem is when I go out and stay out until the bar closes and come home drunk. I know that and regret some of my choices.
I have gone to AA as well as Al Anon, though not recently. My mom is an alcoholic, who was sober for about 15 years until she fell of the rocker last summer. While I was in high school she was at her worst until now. Passed out at home drunk all the time. I know I still have unresolved issues there. Thus, I have always been conscious of my drinking, but sometimes failed with it. I got drunk sometimes. It has never left my mind though to be aware of it. You are right when you say that it has affected my family, so it is a problem. I don't deny that. My dad is attends Al Anon meetings weekly and he has asked if I would like to go with him sometime. I would like to, but also have a responsibility to my kids and their teams I coach right now. But I certainly don't dismiss or ignore it either. It has been there all my life.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Remember not to believe everything you hear from her. The WAW will always paint a really bleak picture and really stress what ruined it for her, and maybe in a way it did, but there is more to the story.
I wonder if either A) the taste of freedom associated with her music and the prospect of being in a band was the push for this B) If there isn't an outright affair, perhaps there is an interest, perhaps from someone appreciating her musical aspirations. Any chance of an affair, at least an emotional one?
Try to avoid any more talk about the relationship. If the opportunity arises, feel free to validate her feelings and her musical aspirations. If she's playing, just go a quick "sounds good" and move on.
She tells me, whether it is true or not, that drinking is not the problem. The problem is when I go out and stay out until the bar closes and come home drunk. I know that and regret some of my choices.
As I said, I'm relatively new to sobriety. But that statement above is a goldmine from your wife. The drinking is the problem. It's how it's manifesting that's upsetting her the most.
Imagine if she had said, "Your gambling is not the problem, it's when you go out and stay till the casino closes and come home broke."
Gambling would be the problem.
I was asked a powerful question when I reached out to a mentor 4 days after my W left and told him I wanted to get sober. "What's the worst thing that can come from a life without pot or alcohol? What's the worst thing that's come from a life with them?"
Day 1 for me officially began the next day. You've got a familial history and patterns working against you Elk with alcohol. I'll ask you the same two questions,
"What's the worst thing that can come from a life without alcohol?"
"What's the worst thing that's come so far from a life with it?"
Your decision, but the root of a lot of your challenges is staring you right in the face in my opinion. Getting rid of that root may not solve your marital issue, but it sure as hell isn't going to hurt it either.
M 39 W 36 T5 M3 BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day Served 9/15 D finalized 6/17
