The story so far... -STBX involved in A since late December/early January 2015 -I begin versions of LRT in mid-February -STBX moves in with her parents first week of April -I expose A to OM's W in mid-April -STBX threatens to file for D immediately following exposure of A -Holding pattern for now -Pulling farther back from STBX -Established boundary regarding daily contact with children
I will post more later. I'm out GAL'ing...
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
I'm curious what you think the proper response to a wayward initiating physical contact, say a hug, should be.
Never let down your guard. Never think it may be more than what it is. (By "never", I mean as long as she is wayward). I would say to pretend she's a little old lady giving you a hug. You know how you would respond to an elderly grandma's hug. Maybe that will keep you in check.
I would suggest a more nuanced approach. If she pursues physical contact at the outset of an interaction, meeting or greeting, I'd suggest a mildly warm embrace not exceeding her intensity but certainly welcoming enough that if SHE wants to linger in it...let her. Physical contact at the end of such interactions should be just as Sandi mentioned. Brief. Leaving her wanting more and maybe (or maybe not...you are detached so you don't care) missing you more once the interaction is over. When doing the pursue-distancing dance, a detached strategic betrayed spouse will want to initially reward pursuit (by her) and then distance at the end
I am always suspicious of a WW suddenly becoming so friendly with LBH. Most newcomers want to read more into it, when actually it doesn't mean the WW is wanting to R. There are various reasons a WW does this, but rarely is it with the intent of R. When she is authentic about reconciling, it will probably be a slower, and maybe even a more humble approach.
Wayward men are sometimes or often humble whereas wayward wives almost never humbly approach recovery. They usually approach it as them doing you a favor because they still think they are the coolest hottest chick in the Junior class throwing you a bone (the "maybe I'm having second thoughts but I don't know how I could ever be attracted to you again bone"). The skepticism and suspicion IS warranted because they typically aren't ready to decide anything yet. They tepidly pursue you for recovery conversation and if you seem excited about it and/or too demanding about them going "no contact" immediately, they will then distance again with some satisfaction that you seem to remain on the hook as option 1 or option 2 depending on their mood.
In my WW thread, I talked about the subject of detaching and reattracting the WW. I mean no offense, but I have noticed in past times, people who resist DB detaching and says it doesn't work.......or say it is making matters worse, really have a tough time letting the WS go. Detaching is two-fold. It is primarily for the LBS, but it also has a certain amount of drawing power to the WAS. The LBH has to let her go, first. That has to be what she sees and believes. Yes, she may play every trick in the book to show she can still pull the emotional and sexual strings of the LBH, but it is a test. If he doesn't cave, and stays cool, calm, collected, and in charge.......he passes. She'll act pi$$ed about it, but he passes, and she will want him even more.
I agree it's very much for the betrayed spouse but I believe it's much more multi-faceted than just two prongs. You can perhaps "SELL" detachment to a betrayed husband by telling him his wife needs to "see and believe it" and suggest that her then pursuing a detaching betrayed husband as her testing him, such that he actually maintains his "act" of being detached but to actually BE detached, what she "sees and believes" is really of no consequence. She's "attracted" to it because he is distancing from her and she wants to maintain all her options while she decides (a choice she'll probably never make all on her own). He can accomplish that by having a basic understanding of the distancing-pursuing dance without having to completely disengage from her or "give up" (which is how I read "the betrayed husband has to let her go"). I always try to encourage hope because I've seen the absolute worst situations turn around on a dime and recover. IMO, detaching doesn't require giving up; but, it does require beginning the process of rebuilding one's individual life, opening the cage door and objectively abandoning the illusion that the betrayed husband can control the outcome.
Some women are immediately drawn to the H who detaches, and some have to have a good bit of time before they begin getting interested. But as long as he clings to her, waiting around for her waywardness to leave, tolerating her disrespect, trying to be her BFF, etc., I don't believe he will have much more than a limbo relationship with her.
After some time (for example, defacto is well past d-day and separated already. He doesn't have to endure anything close to daily disrespect and NDY was separated and voluntarily moved back home directly on to the battlefield). I believe there is a lot of room for a detached betrayed husband between acting standoffish and having little to nothing to do with the wayward spouse and being clingy, simply standing and enduring while trying to be her BFF. For example, a detached betrayed husband whose wayward wife's primary complaint is that he's was/is a non-emotional stoic robot could BE detached; yet, in a 180 degree manner display feelings and emotions strategically and periodically while interacting with the wayward wife. In fact, the more stoic he actually is the better his temperament likely is to actually play this game in a detached manner. This could help his situation and make this type of husband actually more attractive versus reinforcing his wayward wife's primary complaint by acting in a cold, distant, hug your grandmother, I don't care about you anymore type fashion. It also doesn't mean on other days he can play that game as well. Make no mistake, all these strategies are just varying forms of "how to manipulate my spouse back to the marriage".
Are there guarantees DBing? A lot of guys have asked this question. Did you have a guarantee she would ever go a date or marry you......before you took the plunge to ask? Do we have anything in life that is a guarantee? There are some differences of opinions in some areas in DBing, but one of the first things Michele teaches is about detaching. The problem for most people is they misunderstand the concept. That, and they are too afraid of it. No book or program can give guarantees, b/c people are going to mess up. They will do things in the wrong time frame, wait too late before finally doing what should have been done first thing, etc. (Look at how many people will not take the advice they get, then come back and want help getting out of a worse mess). And then there is the wayward, who is in rebellion, so no........nothing is guaranteed.
Detachment is guaranteed to increase your odds of success. Success, here, is measured as either a recovered mutually satisfying loving marriage (not just staying married) OR a successful healthier divorce. Detachment can't fix stupid.
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
I hope your wife is trying to schedule a conversation with you to discuss your relationship. Those things we discussed yesterday can certainly enter any such conversations but remember to listen, mostly and then ask questions. Answer her questions with questions. Do not be afraid to share your emotions and feelings in an authentic manner without being needy.
I certainly don't think it's time to go dark on her and I agree with Starsky that checking in every now and then checking on whether the affair is continuing or not is a good thing. You can't fight a battle without intel but, at this point, the battlefield doesn't change much that you need to check everyday.
You may also consider giving up your source. If you confirm contact and then she has a conversation wherein she denies it. Tell her she's being hurtful when she continues to lie to you and then you COULD tell her exactly what you know and how you know it. Sure she (and OM) could take extra precautions and you will lose that avenue of snooping but so what. She'll then know that she's lost all credibility with you so any future statements that she makes promising "no contact" will be suspect and she'll need to go the extra mile providing you verifiable "no contact". You'll lose the source, but be free from the internal struggle of knowing that information is right there and you can't help feeling the urge to check it constantly (if the verizon refresh button was an actually button on my computer, it would have worn off back in the day). What good is intelligence information if you can't use it? If she lies...calmly and in a detached manner tell her it's hurtful when she lies. If she persists tell her what you know. She may actually come clean about the limited number of calls you did see and tell you how they were basically closure contact wherein they were making sure they were both OK and OM was making sure your wife got her stories straight (as OM lies his butt off to his betrayed wife).
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
Journaling: Another solid day. I put together a team of ringers and we took home 2nd place at trivia tonight. Definitely had a fun time.
STBX called around lunchtime and D4 left a voicemail for me, saying how excited she was to spend the night at my house. I had a smile on my face ear to ear. STBX then sent me two video TMs of kids from an indoor playground. I enjoyed both immensely but didn't reply to either of these TMs.
In the evening, STBX called so that I could speak with the kids. We chatted cordially about the kids and the day she had with them. Then STBX asked if she could drop the kids off early tomorrow so that I could open up my birthday presents. I paused and nonchalantly agreed. It appears that STBX made an effort to celebrate my birthday tomorrow. I think my approach will be to remain friendly, confident, and appreciative. I will express my gratitude yet keep busy. I plan to be engaged but not magnetized to STBX.
Any other ideas or suggestions?
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
Oh, I forgot to tell an amusing story from last night. When STBX called so I could talk with kids, she told me to come outside. I was confused at first. She repeated it. I replied, "Oh, I'm not at home."
Apparently, STBX were near my house and wanted me to come outside to say hello. I think it's funny that she just assumes I'm sitting at home, with nothing to do. Good thing I wasn't LOL!
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
Quick morning update: STBX sent a video TM early this morning to wish me a happy birthday. The video of S1 made me smile however I didn't respond.
Then, about two hours later, STBX FaceTimed me at work but I didn't answer. She then followed up with a TM to let me know the kids wanted to wish me a happy birthday. I responded that it was okay for the kids to call.
A few minutes later, STBX FaceTimed for the kids to say happy birthday. STBX then pointed phone towards herself to wish me a happy birthday also. I thanked her for having the kids call. She also mentioned she was bringing the kids over early tonight for my birthday. I said that would be great and I would see them tonight.
I have no idea if STBX intends to stay for a bit tonight but my hunch says that she will. I need to be ready for a possible extended interaction with her. I think the best approach would be to stay busy with the kids and with dinner and just be happy go lucky.
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
Defacto - what was your motivation from ignoring her first couple attempts? The only reason I ask, is that I think in some situations it is acceptable to respond.
Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2 M - 8/2008 W is not happy - 1/2014 W wants D - 9/2014 W moved out - 11/2014 D filed - 1/23/2015 D'ed - 2/25/2015 Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2 M - 8/2008 W is not happy - 1/2014 W wants D - 9/2014 W moved out - 11/2014 D filed - 1/23/2015 D'ed - 2/25/2015 Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
Defacto - what was your motivation from ignoring her first couple attempts? The only reason I ask, is that I think in some situations it is acceptable to respond.
Mahhhty, Thanks!
I did contemplate responding but then I considered that I would see everyone tonight anyway. Honestly, I didn't want STBX to feel that this was just another normal birthday for me and that everything was hunky dory. I was undecided so I went with do nothing. Plus, I wanted to be consistent with the boundary. The fact that I was thinking about how STBX would feel if I didn't respond just confirmed for me how attached I still am.
But it's a moot point now because of talking with the kids later in the morning.
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
