Zelda - Navigating old ruts and land mines in M.2

[Zelda09]

Synopsis - WAH struggling with severe depression, medical concerns
threw some giant walls up around Nov 1 and started sleeping alone,
still being kind enough, but refusing affection, very cold. I
experienced a year of disrespect and generalized nastiness from him.
Very heated fight 2 weeks later from then, when I kicked him out of
the house. We went to MC, but he'd given up completely by then, and
tolerated our assignments and dates. Some went very, very well. The
official position was that we were S but working on it. For about four
weeks.

I'd found this board and was trying to hang back and be my best. While
he was in house, things were very warm and cold from him, alternating.

He went on an extended out of state trip for six weeks, and
communicated he'd lost all hope in our M and wished me the best. I
started to panic, wrote the 'come back to our R, I know what I did
wrong' letter no one should ever write, and there's a whole thread
about that. His friend reached out to see what was going on bc H was
reportedly all over the place and not talking about much. I flew up,
we talked enough about the past and reached some understanding with
each other. At end of trip he said he'd think about coming home. We
spoke a week later, and the tone changed. He valued our M enough to
not want to take chances with it, but was still wary of coming home. I
didn't push.

Two weeks later, picked him up at the airport to stay for a night
while he got his bearings back in town. He was fearful, angry,
doubtful. We continued having hard conversations. He stayed and within
a week most of that fear and anger dissipated. He put his ring back
on. Everything very tentative, but he's voiced his commitment many
times since then. Settled out his case, and is looking to get back to
work. We are continuing with counseling.

Now, as title suggests - we are five weeks into our M, take #2. We are
much more careful and respectful with each other, but honestly, it
doesn't feel like a new M. I am still unfortunately coming from many
of the same places, and though my delivery and self control may be
improved, I need to be coming from better places with him.

Goals:

1. Stop seeing him through lenses of my values, and attempting to have
him adopt mine.

Example - H respects his feelings and doesn't try to push through
them. I happen to think that feelings are a terrible reason to do or
not do anything, but what the heck do I know? I've denied mine for so
long. So, a conversation where I'm trying to 'understand where he's
coming from' is still becoming me trying to show him 'better'
attitudes. That stinks, and is a major reason he felt stifled,
controlled, diminished in the first place. It's happened 2x now since
he's been home and though it did not turn into a fight - hardly
instills confidence in him that he came back to a new M. It's hardly a
good encouragement to open up to me.

2. Cultivate love and respect in my attitudes toward him. Stop
dwelling on my hurts or frustrations. It's just not healthy. V had a
great suggestion for me to find a few things I respect about my H
instead and dwell on that. It is important I cultivate good feelings
toward him, and that spirit of unconditional love had a big part in
changing his mind after he left. I need to hold to it.

3. Create more fun, for me, and for both of us. Being boring and
overworked is good for no one here.

4. Support him in his journey to find himself, his work, his purpose
in his life now that he is trying to get his feet under him. This is a
big part of where I will be taking suggestions. I do not want to
continue to attempt mothering, parenting or doing everything for him
as I had been - this was suffocating. I can let him know I am there
for him if he needs anything.

How else can I show him I recognize that I support him and give him
space and 'being interested in him' (something he claimed I wasn't) at
the same time?

[Zelda09]

Weird formatting above, didn't intend for it to read like an open mic poetry session.

[Calibri]

Weird formatting above, didn't intend for it to read like an open mic poetry session.

Bahahha Thanks for that -- I needed it.

Z - do you think you and your H might be open to going to MC again? Perhaps one who focuses on EFT? From what I've read about EFT - it really works on helping break communication patterns and establish healthier ones.

I worry, that you are taking all the burden on making this work, and that you're going to bend until you break. I wonder if having a EFT based MC (or really, a good MC) would be helpful to you both.....of course should ya'll want to pursue that.

[Zelda09]

C, what's EFT? We are still doing MC, but I think you're talking something more specific?

Thanks for the concern. Honestly I feel kind of humbled out by my Hs changes. He asks if we can try conversations later when they get tense. He asks how I think what I've said might make him feel instead of attacking me. He has made a point of being a strong shoulder for me when I'm not doing well. Maybe I don't post about this aspect often enough. Weeks 1-2 he wasn't there, but has really made huge efforts at being cool and level. I think his ADs help a lot too.

I am not feeling spastic or drained as I was. Just cautious that this whole thing isn't feeling as fresh as I was hoping, and that's mostly on me as far as I can tell.

Wait. No, that's not true. The appeasement stuff, that's a big irk that isn't me.

I want to hear more about what you're suggesting tho.

[Calibri]

From Wikipedia:

Emotionally focused therapy (EFT), also known as emotion-focused therapy and process-experiential therapy, is a usually short-term (8–20 sessions) structured psychotherapy approach to working with individuals, couples, or families. It includes elements of Gestalt therapy, person-centered therapy, constructivist therapy, systemic therapy, and attachment theory.[1]

Emotionally focused therapy proposes that human emotions have an innately adaptive potential that, if activated, can help clients change problematic emotional states or unwanted self-experiences. Emotions themselves do not inhibit the therapeutic process, but people's incapability to manage emotions and use them well is seen as the problem. Emotions are connected to our most essential needs.[2] Therefore, the focus on emotions is a common factor among various systems of psychotherapy; one prominent therapist has said: "The term emotion-focused therapy will, I believe, be used in the future, in its integrative sense, to characterize all therapies that are emotion-focused, be they psychodynamic, cognitive-behavioral, systemic, or humanistic."

There's a really good book: Hold Me Tight that focuses on EFT therapy and I've read halfway through it - and recognized alot of my relationship within in. Should H and I ever go to MC again.......we've both agreed to go this route based on the research we've done.

[Zelda09]

Very nice, thanks.

Do I read that you're still in communication with your H?
Are you doing well?

[Calibri]

No prob. Hope it helps.

Communication with H is spotty. But yes. Mr. "I want to be Divorced via my mommy" sure isn't doing anything to move down that road. There's a lot going on in our sitch, but I'm not comfortable posting anything right now because of H's privacy. Some issues have come up that are very private and while he would likely never know about it being posted, I don't want to disrespect him by putting it out there. So. I'm still reading and checking in with people - but I'm not at a place where I feel comfortable posting.

Some days are good. Other days not so much. It's not a linear process. Which pisses me off because I want it to be a linear process.

Thanks for asking!

[gan]

Great start to a new thread, Zelda. Here's hoping there are no scandals in king ice scream this time round I'll think on the "supporting him in his growth" question.

Sorry to hijack but - Calibri - thanks for the update. I too have been wondering about you. Glad to read that there is a little interaction between you and H. Completely understand the privacy thing. I wish you the strength to work through it all.

[susana4]

Hey Z!

I have a few thoughts on your goals:

1. I think maybe I mentioned this to you before, but have a look at Al Turtle's iceberg theory if you haven't yet. Basically, it's that "everyone makes sense all of the time". The idea is that other people ALWAYS act logically. It just may seem illogical to us because we don't know everything that's going on in their heads, their history, etc. So, in my interpretation: our way isn't "better". They are doing exactly what they should be. There's no point in us telling them what to do, because we don't have all the information, only they do. There will always be a part of them unknown to us. And without knowing it, how can we presume to know what's best for them?

I don't always succeed but this is my new theory I try to hold in my head when interacting with H (and others). It's helping me a lot.

2. I like V's suggestion. What if you got a notebook and wrote down 1 thing you admire every day for the next week? Kind of like a gratitude journal. An admiration journal. might make it more concrete.

4.
How else can I show him I recognize that I support him and give him
space and 'being interested in him' (something he claimed I wasn't) at
the same time?
Have you asked him how he wants to be supported in this journey? What did he say?

I think a big part will be mastering goal no. 1. Not seeing through the lens of your values. Let him navigate this himself.

I think the big question here is: Are you genuinely interested?
If so, find a way to express it (e.g. active listening). If not - this is somewhere to dig deep and figure out why.

[Zelda09]

1 - excellent stuff. I know I made a lot of headway connecting with him during our S with this on mind - assuming it was my job to figure out the sense he was making instead of his job to prove it to me.

Disclaimer - due to human nature pitfall, I was a lot more motivated to see things this way.

Must, must keep this attitude. The payoff is worth it. Connection feels good, period.

4. Ew, hard question.

He said to me a few weeks ago, just let me know if I need anything you're there.

We are also combatting something else - if I ask questions, he tends to get his back up like I don't trust him to take care of stuff. 2x in one week he's been all like, "one of these days you will just trust me and I will keep pushing back until then." I end up feeling disrespected and blown off - I mean I'm a partner, not a little kid. I told him this, he says fair enough. If I say, where are we going...what does he gain from being all mysterious about a mundane part of our day? It's a control battle as far as I can tell. I'm trying to look at this fun new behavior that

a) it came from past feelings of me not trusting him - I didn't trust him to find the 'correct' solutions

b) asserting independence and forcing me to be deferent?

So any interest I express in much of anything kind of gets met with this defensive my -life, my- problems attitude even tho he is ALL over supporting me, wanting to be included in re-financing stuff, my new ventures this month...

Gah.

And then for the rest of your question, Susana - here's a big chunk of honesty - I am genuinely interested in my H and his points of view, interests. I'd be a lot more respectful of them if they sounded remotely like mine. And happier to hear them if they didn't fire me up so much.

H philosophy...it can be so d*** painful to listen to sometimes. He's a lovely man and I love him dearly but if most men are from mars, he's been taking residence up on Pluto for a while.

Eh. That's on me, not him. See #1. That kind of open-accepting mindset takes A LOT of energy.