Oh, Susana! (3)

[susana4]

Last thread locked so I am onto my third...

History

12/3/2014 H dropped bomb - completely out of blue. He said he'd been in denial and didn't realise he was unhappy, but he no longer felt like himself and hadn't brought it up because of fear of conflict. Immediately moves to separate bedroom, carries on doing my laundry, watching TV together, etc. - in short, being really nice.
Confusing!

December Lots of tears. Begging. Pleading. Then we go abroad for Xmas with my family and he acts almost normal - cuddles, hand holding, tickle fights. He says:
*I still love you.
*I'm attracted to you.
*I don't want to be with anyone else.
Lots of confusion.

January 2015 H goes to parents for New Years. I soul search. I discover DBing. He comes home and I stop all R talks, all begging, drop out of MC.
Start to feel a bit less confused.

Now H and I are living together in rental until my visa and job situation is sorted (prob will be March or April). He is absolutely certain he wants to proceed with S and D, at least as far as I know. We have absolutely NO R talks these days.

My old threads--

Susana - Intro & 180 questions - I try to enforce a boundary and fail, and accidentally backslide. I go out more and dress up. H starts tickle fights. I question whether there's an OW and start and stop snooping. My 180 is no arguing and I succeed apart from one time. H begins to introspect and challenge his people pleasing. H grows more distant.

Susana (2) Learning to Detach - I GAL some more, and question whether I went too far. I become friendlier. H and I do an activity together. H grows closer, more touching and hugs. I stop talking to H about my problems, and he shares more about his. H introspects more and questions his fear of conflict. I start on ADs, and struggle with them.


Challenges in our M/What led us here...
*My criticisms led to H changing himself because of people pleasing/fear of conflict. (He eventually felt he wasn’t himself and couldn't be himself, and be with me.)
*H fear of conflict - we argued too much
*H never told me any concerns/complains until BD, because “didn’t want to have problems in our M”. Didn’t have healthy model of M growing up, and was taken from his father at 4 and moved to another country. Witnessed domestic abuse between mother & stepfather and was subject of emotional abuse. Has never had IC, doesn’t want to and thinks he’s not affected by past.
*Spent too much time together/H felt smothered, I needed quality time but wasn't getting the quality/connection, just quantity
*H felt responsible for my emotions (engulfed?) and like he needed to fix them. I went through 6-8 months of moderate to severe anxiety and depression due to work - he claims this wasn't related, but I think it created an unhealthy cycle where he tried to fix it, I leaned on him for support (instead of getting medical/psych support) and eventually he felt he wasn't good enough because he couldn't fix it.

My 180s
*Stop criticising completely. Give compliments and gratitude (WOA).
*Don't be reactive or engage in arguments. (Give myself 5 minutes at least to calm down.)
*Stop fixing things, don't give advice (just validate)
*Work on my anxiety & depression - IC and ADs

Missing any 180s I should be doing?

My current challenge: Learning to detach...

[Complex]

The thing about D talk is that H needs to do EVERYTHING. Because it's his choice. But same old, it's a huge step and even if WAS is determined they are hesitant till the last moment ...which usually buys us time.
And even after filing there's usually several months. But like I said we need a LOT of time for WAS to notice changes and to fall back in love with us...if they ever will

[susana4]

Still having a rough day here due to transitioning onto ADs. It's causing me to be more down, but I keep reminding myself it's just temporary.

Keep going over stuff in my head and I'm feeling so guilty today. H must have felt like I didn't love him as he was and he couldn't be himself around me...and that realisation feels awful... I know it's not entirely my fault, because he molded himself because of his people pleasing, but my criticisms definitely didn't help.

I know I need not to focus on the future but it's all rattling around in my head today and I keep going over the guilt.

[Calibri]

Hi Susana,

I have a H who is a complete people pleaser. In fact, with the exception of one of your bullet points (#4) - is what my H would complain about me/our R word for word.

It sounds like he doesn't know who he is. Most people pleasers don't (all though some may disagree). I understand the guilt. But what I've been learning is that I can't take on the guilt for other people's choices. I can only work on the guilt/feelings associated with my own.

Good luck to you.

[susana4]

Hi Susana,

I have a H who is a complete people pleaser. In fact, with the exception of one of your bullet points (#4) - is what my H would complain about me/our R word for word.

Oh man Calibri, I just started reading your sitch (your first few posts) and it sounds SO much like my H. So much! Well, without the sudden anger issues (wtf?!). But everything else, yes - the sudden flip, seemingly happy and then out of NOWHERE saying he wasn't, saying he couldn't be himself, didn't know who he was etc.

Also, H never said I was controlling but I have started to realise I was. Something you wrote that really hit home with me -- " with all the crappy things that have happened to me, I want to control the things in my life. My eff'd up thinking: If I can control it - then nothing bad will happen to me again."
Oh yes...definitely think that way too. And it really doesn't make sense.

It sounds like he doesn't know who he is.

^^^^This. I think this is the root of it. Not saying there aren't other issues on both sides, but this is the big problem.

Just after BD he told me he was jealous because I was so self-aware (ironic because BD made me question everything I thought I knew about myself and my life), and he "knows nothing about himself." He said he doesn't know his feelings or opinions on ANY topic. I find that mind boggling! And also sad.

So I totally get what his journey is. And I hope he makes it to a place where he knows himself better. But it does really suck.

Most people pleasers don't (all though some may disagree). I understand the guilt. But what I've been learning is that I can't take on the guilt for other people's choices. I can only work on the guilt/feelings associated with my own.

Good luck to you.

Thank you.

[Calibri]

Just after BD he told me he was jealous because I was so self-aware (ironic because BD made me question everything I thought I knew about myself and my life), and he "knows nothing about himself." He said he doesn't know his feelings or opinions on ANY topic. I find that mind boggling! And also sad.

I've heard that before as well. H has told me several times he was envious of me and how I handled things. That I was, "so self assured, and didn't take anyone's [censored] and wanted to be more like me." The irony of it all -- those are now things that he "hates" about me.

So I totally get what his journey is. And I hope he makes it to a place where he knows himself better. But it does really suck.

I would caution you about "getting what the journey is" - because often as you go down this path -- you'll discover that the journey is not at all what you think it may be. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't -- but I've learned that the moment you think you have it nailed down, it blows up in your face. Again.

Not to be a debbie downer -- just trying to provide some advice. :-)

Stay positive and keep up with the AD's. They helped a lot during the first of my sitch.

[Mozza]

Brief hijack

Calibri - Nice to see you back. I see your thread #3 has locked. Will you open #4, even though you feel there is nothing to say? Something to keep us updated, something for those who are looking for you? Thanks.

/hijack

Susana4 - I've just read your few last posts and I agree that your sitch and that of Calibri have a lot in common. Hope you can support each other.

[Zelda09]

Hi Susana,

I can relate. My H gives things and does things for people to make them like him. He idolizes my strength and ambition, yet resents me for it, even yesterday was complaining "you're so effing independent..." He doesn't feel like I accept him for who he is, but he won't define who that person is. Is looking for others to teach him about him, care about his point of view, nurture him, create stability (his words, not mine. Nothing I imagine adults actually expect of one another). But if you ask him what he thinks, he skillfully avoids doing anything but speaking in a father knows best tone of voice about everyone else's motivations and feelings. He said he didn't have room to be himself. Was always feeling like he was a disappointment. Was so stressed out around me.

There's a dynamic common for a lot of us on this board I think. Seems like most of us LBS are self described critical, controlling, over bearing as our spouses might have been underbearing. Ganb8te's thread on Rosenberg's giraffe ears was a huge turning point for me - and in Rosenberg's YouTube videos I also saw my H in his example of a "yes-saying Jackal" - the people pleaser who suddenly bolts bc he's stuffed his own feelings away for too long. In many of our situations, we experienced abuse and brought all our great coping skills to repeat familiar feeling dynamics. I realized thru DB and IC introspection I'd become a version of my father I hated, to exercise all that judgement upon my H, bc it felt safe to be on the other end of that instead of victim to it. I think that many 'strong' women, me, my friends with similar childhoods, become so strong we forget how to be vulnerable, how to say we need or want help - with anything!

This is some of the hardest stuff I think anyone can go through. You sound like you are doing all you can, and it's cliche, but everyone here gets stronger (and wiser hopefully) bc it ain't killing us! Hugs. Wishing you as much peace and happiness as you can find this week!

[susana4]

Just after BD he told me he was jealous because I was so self-aware (ironic because BD made me question everything I thought I knew about myself and my life), and he "knows nothing about himself." He said he doesn't know his feelings or opinions on ANY topic. I find that mind boggling! And also sad.

I've heard that before as well. H has told me several times he was envious of me and how I handled things. That I was, "so self assured, and didn't take anyone's [censored] and wanted to be more like me." The irony of it all -- those are now things that he "hates" about me.

I sometimes wonder if what attracts you in the first place is what ends up causing problems later. H tells me he was attracted to me because I was passionate - now he says I had too many strong opinions. But on the flip side, I always loved how laidback H is. Never imagined it would bite me in the a$$ like it has.

So I totally get what his journey is. And I hope he makes it to a place where he knows himself better. But it does really suck.

I would caution you about "getting what the journey is" - because often as you go down this path -- you'll discover that the journey is not at all what you think it may be. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't -- but I've learned that the moment you think you have it nailed down, it blows up in your face. Again.

Not to be a debbie downer -- just trying to provide some advice. :-)

Stay positive and keep up with the AD's. They helped a lot during the first of my sitch.

Thanks, I appreciate the advice and insight from someone in a similar sitch! I meant that I think I know what journey he intends to go on - one of finding out who he is. Whether he'll make it, or how that journey will unfold, I have no idea. And my own journey? No effing clue. Trying now to let go of my need to control, and ride it out. This is so hard.

Thanks, good to know the ADs helped you!

[susana4]

Brief hijack

Calibri - Nice to see you back. I see your thread #3 has locked. Will you open #4, even though you feel there is nothing to say? Something to keep us updated, something for those who are looking for you? Thanks.

/hijack

Susana4 - I've just read your few last posts and I agree that your sitch and that of Calibri have a lot in common. Hope you can support each other.

Definitely seems it - I'm reading Calibri's old threads now to catch up on the sitch!