To late? help please

[Bilbo79]

So this is my story.
We have been married for 10 years. After our second child, we both put our kids ahead of our marriage. We both were unhappy last year but we never talked about it. I work in the IT field and I started to only pay attention to electronics and was not putting in the effort into our marriage. In January she started to go to the gym a lot and lost about 50 pounds. During this time we were still being intimate a lot. Then on 4/24 she told me that she thought we should separate. To say I was upset would be an understatement. I knew we were in a rough patch but I always thought we would come out of it. We had a long talk and then I did some real soul searching. I realized that I had not been putting in the work and asked for some time to show her how I wanted to be. I did read a lot of good books that helped me, and looking back on it, I believe I was pretty much depressed during that time. Needless to say I did a 180. I started doing most of the house work, getting the girls ready for bed and putting them to bed. I started to really listen to her and I started to work out too. I felt like I was being as good as a husband as I could, but I could still see something was holding her back. she would come home and take a bath and I could hear her just crying in there but she would not talk to me about it. Then on 6/12 she told me that she was having a EA with a guy she meet from the gym. I told her then that I understood why she had done that, that I loved her and wanted to get our marriage back right. I did not change the what I was doing, I was still being the husband I wanted to be. She told me that when she told her mom, that her mom said that our daughters and I would be better off if she just moved away. She was really hurting after the talk with her mom. I took my wife’s side on this and told her that her mom just was upset. She told me that she was going to stop talking to him in July. I am not sure that really ever happened because she guards her phone like it is a bar of gold. So things went on and I really thought we were getting better. We had a really great vacation in September that made me feel really good. She had to go out of town for business training, and all she talked about was how much she missed me and wanted to be back home. Then 10/23 she called me crying, I knew it was not good. She told me that she was meeting the other guy for lunch, and her brother saw her eating with him. They were in the parking lot of an apartment complex. She told me it was only lunch and it was not a big deal. I let her know then that it was not only lunch, that every time she talked to him they only got closer and that I was very hurt by this. I told her I need to know when and where she was meeting him from now on. looking back on it, I think I should have made her make a choice then, him or me. The next week she called and I knew what she was about to say, she was going to have lunch with him. After she told me she asked if it was ok, and I told no that it hurt me. She said if I told her to not go, then she would not, but I think I need this to be her decision to stop. That if I am the one that makes her stop, she will only resent me and leave for that reason. Then the next weekend, I was at the gym and she told me that she had done something stupid. That she had told him that if he got too drunk and need a ride from a function, that she would pick him up. And he did and she left at 12 to pick him up and take him home. Needless to say I was upset, she did not get back until 130 and said they were just talking. I knew that was BS and she finally admitted that they had kissed and that they would kiss on the lunch dates. All this time I have been what I think is a really good husband. We still sleep in the same bed, but have not had sex since 9/29 and have not hooked up since 10/18. I had to go out of town last week and had a lot of time to think. I told her when I got back that after Christmas, I was going to get an apartment, that it was too much for me to take. She got really upset and said she was not going to let me leave. That she loves me and that I was her best friend. The next day it was back to the same. I know she is still talking to him and seeing him for lunch sometimes. I just do not know what to do next. After writing this I look back and see that I should have taken a harder stance on a lot of things but the past is the past.
I really need some advice on what to do. I do really love her and want to be with her but I am tired of feeling so rejected every day.
Thanks for any help that you can give me

[Cadet]

Welcome to the board

Get out and GAL.

DETACH.

Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

[Bilbo79]

when you say DETACH, should I be moving out? it is hard because of my girls. But I am having a lot of trouble eating. I do go to the gym and I did need to lose some weight before this started but now I need to gains some back. I have lost over 60lbs.

[Bilbo79]

I sent her an email today that said she had two choices. stop seeing and talking to him and work on our marriage or I would be moving out after Christmas. after she came down stairs, she sat on my lap crying saying that it made her sad because she knew how much she was hurting me.

[Bilbo79]

I had a heart to heart talk with my W last night. I told her that we both had to make some decisions to make. that I could not continue to live in an open marriage. I already knew that she would ask to wait until after her brothers wedding mid jan.
I told her I would wait until then, but I had already been looking at apartments. we talked for a few more min, then she began to hyperventilate saying the thought of not coming home to me was too much to think about. so I comforted her, telling her it would be ok. I feel like such a push over.

[Bilbo79]

The holidays went good as far as i can tell. There was no mention of OM but I am pretty sure he is not out of the picture. She has not brought it up and I have not said anything.
I told her we could hold off making any decisions until after her brother’s wedding which is not this Saturday but next. I know when I talk to her she will be taken back by the fact that I will not be willing to stay her best friend if we split because of her affair. But I just cannot see how I can. This whole experience has been just really confusion as you know what to me. Just like the past few days she has talked about thing we need to do or she wants to do. And my first thought is always “yeah but I may not be here come February??”. I mean how should I respond to that? Part of me says it is good that she sees a future and I should just go along but the other part is saying what the hell. You have not told me your decision.
I am going to post a little later what I plan on telling her and would love any feedback from you guys.

[HPoirot]

Hello Bilbo79. I'm in a similar sitch to you.

Do you have to move out? As it her her A and her thinking to break up your family... consider her moving out.

Whatever happens, you should stay in your home and in your bed. Can she move to another room or a couch?

Also, stop being her friend now. Stop doing nice things for her. Stop initiating conversations. Be distant. Read Sandi's list. Detaching begins with living your life without your W, even if she's in the house with you which is difficult.

If you have joint bank accounts, consider starting to separate your accounts.

And don't bring up OM or have any more R talks with her.

If she comes crying to you... don't reassure her that things will be OK. I did that a lot. It feels good in the moment to be supportive... but she doesn't look at you that way right now. She will continue her A and get the benefits of her R with you unless you start to show her that her behavior does not work for you.

Also, put spaces between your paragraphs in your posts. And make your paragraphs no more than 2 or 3 shorter sentences. That makes them much easier to read and you will get more responses.

Good luck.

[u-turn]

Hey Bilbo,
I see that often too - it seems like complete denial. They want it all and even make plans for the future. Maybe this open marriage just might work out - sheesh.

My W was still talking about future plans, family trips, and things she want to do to the house, and I am thinking (why would we even discuss this because this passes up all of the other steps that need to happen).

Once the discussion was opened up, that all changed. I did tell her that I wanted her to leave and that I would not live like this any more. Now - I don't think things have really changed between us, but she knows that I am serious and sticking to it. I have shown her this by not acting like her bff any more and she knows why without saying anything and showing that I am moving forward with my future.

She tries to suck me back into that same old bff role (this would be all well and good if it was real and part of true h/w roles - and searching for this is my weakness.)

Not saying any of that is relevant in your situation, just what's happening in mine (and it does seem similar)

My intention is to not move out, but it may come to that.

[Cadet]

DONT MOVE OUT

It is the single biggest mistake you can make.

They have written books about it!

[25yearsmlc]

Dear Bilbo,

Sorry you are here but it is the best place to be, for a lousy reason.

So, Have you read either of the books that explain the approach we take here?

You really MUST read at least one of them, either "Divorce Busting" or the later edition, "Divorce Remedy".

Then what you read here will make more sense AND you'll grasp the concepts and techniques we use, a lot more.

IF you won't read a single book to save your marriage, ask yourself what other chances to change or improve you may have resisted and why...

what would SHE SAY if she were here, and we asked her what was missing inside the marriage?

If ANY of her perceptions are valid and if you wish to improve yourself and become the man you were meant to become,

then begin digging deep within yourself, in those areas...

The holidays went good as far as i can tell. There was no mention of OM but I am pretty sure he is not out of the picture. She has not brought it up and I have not said anything.

I told her we could hold off making any decisions until after her brother’s wedding which is not this Saturday but next.

Stop bringing up ANY of this^^. Remember what your goal is,

and then **ACT in accordance with your goal

AND NOT in accordance with how you FEEL at that moment.


I know when I talk to her she will be taken back by the fact that I will not be willing to stay her best friend if we split because of her affair. But I just cannot see how I can.

You need NOT decide any of this^^ right now. Don't borrow trouble from tomorrow. But protect your legal interests IF & WHEN the time comes.


This whole experience has been just really confusion as you know what to me. Just like the past few days she has talked about thing we need to do or she wants to do. And my first thought is always “yeah but I may not be here come February??”.

SHE is confused. Period.

I mean how should I respond to that? Part of me says it is good that she sees a future and I should just go along but the other part is saying what the hell. You have not told me your decision.

What she is saying, in effect, is that she does NOT know what her decision will be. Because you know, she's confused. A part of her clearly wants to stay married, or she'd be gone by now. I'd say nothing.

Don't force her to cement a choice when it's not going to go your way. Do NOT CORNER her. The more you challenge her choices - the more you force her to defend them.

You are very close to giving her an ultimatum. If you had carefully read Either of the DB books, you would know that is a BAD IDEA.

Instead of worrying SO MUCH about OM, BECOME the better choice. Work on yourself and stop obsessing about OM or putting your focus on her or him. Just your own work. You knew there were troubles in the marriage for which you are at least partly responsible.

No WAS returns to a marriage they left, UNLESS they believe that the

marriage will be better/different than before...

How are you Demonstrating that it would be better?


Only issue an ultimatum if you are 100% certain you will be alright with her choice AND the follow up action you must then take.

However, I don't think you are near ready for either of those^^...


I am going to post a little later what I plan on telling her and would love any feedback from you guys.

Here are some "Rules" that are really GUIDELINES b/c everyone's situation is different AND evolving. What works for a few months may need to change later, etc. Sandi assembled these some time ago.

I highlighted several, but really they probably all apply.

For you, I suggest really reflecting on #'s 5, 17, 20 & 39.

This will a jumpstart and a "plan" of sorts, which you must read and process. AND PLEASE do yourself a favor,

Read a DB book...asap.

"40 Rules" for Div Busting Newbies (I copied & laminated this to carry around for several months until it really sank in.)


1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

***17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.


*****20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patience on your behalf.

21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell). Sometimes the right thing to say is nothing.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

38. Know that in time, you really will be happy again, regardless of your spouse’s choices. Know this, believe it, and let it show.

39.*** Do not believe that showing your spouse your pain and misery proves your love for them. It just makes it harder to be around you.

40. Don’t worry about how the past is viewed. What matters is this day and “from this day forward.”

Learn to let go of the past and what you cannot control. It’s a lot to let go of, but it is incredibly freeing.

Keep on keeping on, don't give up, and keep posting here. We are all rooting for you.