Moments of "giddy"... I'll take 'em!

[fthnluv]

Prior threads:

New here, my fairytale gone wrong

It doesn't feel like a fairytale anymore...

I agree fthnluv about the fallout with the children. In my sitch, H moved away so the aftermath of H's behavior is 100% on my shoulders. Because my girls are older they can detach a bit easier but the undercurrent of their emotions makes them vulnerable at a time when the decisions of the first man in their life represents so much.

So true. It is a lot more work having them far away but we do miss a lot of the drama that can happen in person with the OW or even just H so I'm not sure which is worse. My kids being little makes it harder in some ways as they cannot take care of themselves but I don't have to deal with as much (or as obviously conciously connected to this sitch) stuff with them like you have to with older kids who know what is happening and are trying to make their own way in life. Ugh. It's just no fun.

So I named this thread "Moments of "giddy"" because that is what I have been feeling some over the last couple of days. Now, those moments are fleeting and have only been a few but I'll take 'em! I think I have finally come to the very beginning stages of acceptance (although I am well aware I may and probably will cycle back to the beginning again) that this sitch is going to end in a D. I hate that that is the most likely scenario but I feel, in my heart, that that is what it's going to take to get H to see the truth, eventually.

I find myself thinking about my future and thinking that if H and I reconcile we will (eventually) likely have an even better M (and I loved it prior to this MLC mess!) or God will send me a new M with someone else who is even better than H! When I think about both of those scenarios it makes me a little giddy. I truly trust in God's plan for me and my kids and I believe this will be for our good and His glory.

So, as fleeting and few as they are, I'll take those moments and I hope to build on them until one day I can truly say I am fine and happy again.

[fthnluv]

Had a decent weekend. I'm trying to do more things by myself with the kids than I have in the past. I usually don't take them out to restaurants by myself because they can be hard to get to sit still at their ages but I am trying this some, I can no longer always wait to go out until H comes home. Since the single Mom life could be my life for a while and I'd like to go out for dinner sometimes so I gotta get used to it. Same goes with taking them to church by myself. I'm doing better at not getting frustrated with them poking one another or standing on the pews and such and I know those around me understand that it is hard to do it by yourself. Progress.

Had a chance to do some snooping today when I got an email that H had paid his credit card bill. I was so tempted to call and have the automated system list off all of the charges but I resisted and didn't. Anything I heard would only send me on another wild goose chase or hurt me so I am proud that I was able to resist the temptation again. I've also stayed off FB for the same reason. Too much temptation and no potential gain.

Registered for my first college class for next semester. Since I still haven't gone down and taken the assessments for Math and English I was not able to do any of those classes but I got into an online sociology class so that's a start. Next fall all of my kids will be in school, at least part time, so I will actually be able to attend a class in person too. That's when I'll really begin again.

No new moments of "giddy" but some moments of acceptance and resolve to let God take total control of H and to try to rejoice in all the wonderful things I DO have going for me. Doing my best to be thankful in all of it this Thanksgiving holiday.

[fthnluv]

Had an interesting morning. H called and we talked for over 2 hours, it was a decent conversation. Mostly me talking and him not saying too much. Warning: Most of this is so NOT DBing correctly, but it was honest.

I asked H to call so we can work out plans for him to see the kids this weekend. I asked if he could help me put up the Christmas tree while he was here to get the kids. He said that he was unsure about spending any time around me, that he was afraid we would fight again. I asked what we had to fight about and he said he did not know. Here's where I went off course: I told him that I only foresaw a fight if he lied to me or was disrespectful or threatening our financial and emotional security again as he did last time he was here. I told him that maybe we should talk about a few things before he came here.

I then proceeded to tell him I knew about his new FB profile and that I thought it was insensitive of him to go public with his new GF when we are still married, barely broken up. I told him he looks like an adulterer to the world, he said he does not care what people think of him. I told him that I care because it affects me and the kids as the public thinks of him as part of us still and that it reflects badly on us. He disagrees.

H confirmed, after my directly asking and him trying to beat around the bush, that he and OW are now engaged. No surprise there, I found her engagement ring info when I discovered she existed so I knew it was coming. Confirming it was more about him being forthright than me getting into his business. I want us to be able to talk like we used to and that means we need to minimize secrets between us. H said he plans on remarrying OW when our D is final.

I asked if they are planning on having kids, he says they have discussed it but not come to a decision (or at least one he was willing to admit). I pointed out that if he has kids with her it will send a big message to our kids that he wants to live with his "other" kids but that they are not good enough to live with and that if (when) that M implodes it will just be another child support payment that he has to pay and then he will have the mess of having 2 sets of kids on the opposite sides of the country to deal with. He tells me he has and is thinking of all of this. I don't know how true that is but maybe he will think of it now.

I told him that I will not go around telling people that he was cheating on me and that, once they discover his new woman, I will let them assume it is new. I asked him if he thought he owed me an apology about having an affair and he finally apologized and said he was sorry he did it the way that he did but it is clear he is not sorry that he is with her. At one point he told me that I would always consider him cheating with her forever and I told him that in the eyes of God he always will be but that I would have been much more fine with him if he had waited until we actually split to get together with someone else. Of course, I'm not gonna like it, ever, but it would have been much better and more acceptable to the world.

We got into a conversation about how their R started and he confirmed that he started dating her shortly after he met her last November and that she has been told all along that we were separated. She has no idea that he was still married (and acting as such) to me when they got together and until August of this year. This does not surprise me either, I figured he was lying to both of us, but it makes me feel a *tiny* bit better about her as she was not knowingly, pursuing a man who was still "actively" married but instead she was ok with dating a man who was going through a divorce (in her eyes).

I told him that he is kidding himself that he does not see how she factored in to our split. He was actively dating her and at the same time "claiming" to be working on our marriage problems with pastors and counselors. I told him that we may have had a different outcome if she hadn't been in the picture and he actually WAS actively trying to save our marriage. He completely denies this as truth and thinks she is no factor in our D at all. He says he was done as of Dec last year and that she did not change anything. Funny, when asked directly if he wanted a D and if there was another person by me, our pastor and our marriage coach he denied it to us all...

I told him that I missed our friendship and that I miss having someone who cares about me, misses me and loves me. I told him that I worry about how he will take it if/when they split because he has never gone through a split and hurt like I am. I pointed out that he went from having me tell him all the time how much I love him and miss him to her telling him the same thing. Actually those overlapped. He has never had to deal with being dumped by someone he loves and feeling so rejected and lonely. Their R has been built on lies and it is a house of cards that is bound to fall.

At one point I was talking about being friends and he asked me why I would want to be friends with him if he was the guy I said he was (a guy who lies, cheats and leaves his wife and kids and is cool with that) and who I resent and I told him I do because I know the real guy and that he is not him. I told him I know the man he was for the last 23 years and that I know him better than OW ever will and that we have a past and a history that tells me the truth and that God has put it on my heart to hold on to the real him.

I told him that I understand that he is not having an easy time with all of this either, that I know he is wresting with guilt, shame and doubts and is likely having thoughts and dreams he wishes he could not have. He confirmed that it is not easy on him and told me that the life he seems to be living isn't as glamorous as I imagine it to be. I told him I would always be here for him if he needs to or wants to talk.

He told me it is hard to talk because I "brow beat" him which I asked him to clarify and he then told me that I tell him things that he does not want to hear (ie: the cheating, the possible new kids, the lying to me and OW). I told him that he could tell me if he does not want to hear about that but that I will always be honest with him. He said he does not want to hang or be friends with someone like that and I told him that friends should be honest with each other too and that I expect my friends to tell me when I am going down a bad path.

H confirmed that he will be spending Thanksgiving with OW's family and said that he had met her parents before and that they know they are engaged. I would still like to be a fly on that wall! I told him I hope he has a nice time and finds happiness and that I will be here, celebrating with his kids, parents and siblings. Nice contrast there...

After all of this I feel there's not much left to say or work out. I know where he stands, he knows where I stand and what I know and as long as he continues to provide for us and gets more involved with his kids (as much as a MLCer can, that is) we have nothing to argue about. I truly have let him go and I am doing my best to follow God's plan for me. I know He has amazing things in store for me and my kids. I guess I'm still holding on to H some, though, because I do worry about the choices he is making and how they will affect him (and us). Gotta keep working on detachment!

Oh, and I REALLY, REALLY want to go back and make my FB profile public so that OW can just "happen" to see it and see all my posts over the last 2 years and see that we have been a couple this whole time. But, I know that I only want that so that she will get mad, feel betrayed, and dump him. Part of me wants to do it SO BAD but the other says that he would know right away why I did it and it would just cause so many problems with him and I that it wouldn't be worth it. Of course, another part of me says that if she dumps him because of it he would be alone and maybe better able to process this whole MLC thing without the blindness that the OW provides...

I'm ready, I know I made a lot of mistakes. Let me have it where I need it!

[fthnluv]

So, a lot has happened since I last posted. Gonna try to catch up here.

This is just so hard to wrap my head around. I spoke to my pastor yesterday and he told me not to try to understand it (or look back at the past and what I could have done or what he did or did not do and the different outcomes that may have happened) and that it is pure "craziness" in his head that we will never make sense of. He kept reminding me that I am beating my head against a wall in trying to change it or even figure it out.

Found out that H's income increased 3-8 times (yes, you read that right!) from the monthly amount he was collecting starting the month he filed for divorce. Not sure what I can do, if anything, about that. He says I am not entitled to it, only to the standard of living that I had with him. Not sure if that is true or if he held off on some income (he's in the construction field and can hold payment) until after he filed knowing that it would be his separate property. Not sure what I can prove anyway. It seems awfully suspicious. I need to talk to my lawyer about it (have appointment next week). It just feels so wrong that I stood by him for 23 years in hard and lean times and now that he is making a lot of money he drops me like a hot potato for a 23 year old and thinks I have no right to the fruits of his increase we have worked so hard and waited so long for.

Also found out today that he IS NOT coming to Christmas eve and Christmas day at his parents as previously discussed or planned. This does not surprise me, I sort of prepared myself for it but it still hurts so deeply, for both me and the kids. He will be with his new fiance and her family on the other side of the country.

I have a meeting with my counselor and lawyer and NOW my H and the OW next Thursday, the 11th. It will be H and OW, then the counselor, then the attorney as far as order of "meetings" go. I wish it was H and OW at the end but it might work out better this way because I won't have a ton or ammunition to shoot at them from the other meetings.

I am so frustrated because it is clear that he is moving at warp speed and there's next to nothing I can do about any of it (maybe delay their marriage by stalling divorce but I doubt that's a good move) I can't stop him from letting the kids meet her. I wish I could. I will fight, legally, to stop overnights with her if I need to.

I keep telling myself that this is going to get worse before it gets better but it keeps just getting worse and worse at warp speed and the only thing left that would be more devastating would be a new baby for them, which I am preparing for and dread the fallout, emotionally for my kids and how that will make them feel about him living with that baby but not with them.

Praying that I catch a break and feel God's mighty hand leading me again soon. I thought I felt that way yesterday and that He was confirming my stand once again but today is just so far removed from that it is easy to forget the feelings of hope I had yesterday.

Today I have had mixed emotions. I have feelings of "is this really what you want from me God?" and fleeting ones of "why do I even want him back?". I imagine this is normal too. Until I feel called strongly by God to do something different I am standing. It's just apparently going to be the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.

[123Gwen]

Why are you meeting with H and OW? Can you do that with a counselor or attorney present? I am worried you are still processing so much that you may not be detached enough yet. H is counting on your emotions to validate his decisions right now. It may sound silly but can you agree ahead of time on agenda items and stick to the list? I keep thinking a meeting with H and OW is exactly what is best for them and not you.

If you must meet with them please see if maybe you can do this at your counselor's or pastor's office. This way you have a buffer and a witness. Obviously you'll have to meet her but the holidays are a tough time. It would be better if you could just get through the month at normal speed.

The other thing that you may want to rethink is your promise to legitimize H's timeline of events. I agree that airing dirty laundry is never the best way to handle things. Your kids are young and vilifying their father is not the answer but to say you'll keep his secret to everyone, even if they ask is not respecting your marriage. It is also being dishonest. It also makes him feel valid in his version of events. You told him how you value honesty and then said you'd protect his lie. That is a mixed message.

Fth, hang in there and know you have lots of people here supporting you.

[Lifes Twists]

Fun,

I agree, why are you meeting with H and OW? I wouldn't, period. If you have to make sure you have one or more third parties present. This just smells of a set up on the part of H and OW. Think about the things they could accuse you of if it is only them and you.

My thoughts on your husbands sudden increase in income and its effect is this. Have you and he filed financial affidavits yet? If he did and it does not reflect this sudden increase in income then he has lied to the court. Until you are actually divorced and have an agreement in place changes in his income can affect what he will pay. I would turn your lawyer loose on this since it will increase the amount of child support you get as well as spousal support. Given the way he has acted, I would go for it.

Back to meeting with your H and OW. Given the increase in his income, his trying to hide it, etc, again think about what he could accuse you of and how OW will back him up if you meet with them alone. They could leave the meeting and call the police and say you threatened him or even assaulted him or her.

[fthnluv]

Why are you meeting with H and OW? Can you do that with a counselor or attorney present? I am worried you are still processing so much that you may not be detached enough yet. H is counting on your emotions to validate his decisions right now. It may sound silly but can you agree ahead of time on agenda items and stick to the list? I keep thinking a meeting with H and OW is exactly what is best for them and not you.

You have great insight here. It IS what's best for them and not necessarily for me. I am CHOOSING to meet her because she wants to meet me and I had proposed (in writing up our financial/custody negotiations) that no romantic parties be introduced to our children until they meet the other parent first. Not to "approve" that person but just to have a conversation and sort of get on the same page with someone who is clearly going to be a part of my kids lives, whether I want that or not. I did NOT expect this to be happening only 3 months post breakup. I feel like if I choose not to meet her now I may not be given that opportunity again before H introduces the kids (because in his negotiation back to me he did not agree with this condition, not sure why he is ok with it now).

As for the list, yes, I think I can do that and I think it is something I SHOULD do. At the very least I will write out what I think I want to say so that I have processed some of it before meeting her/them. I am also trying to figure out the possible right person to come with me. Most of his family side with me so they would not be the best to bring, my family seems too close and like that wouldn't work well, friends seem like they would be an awkward choice to bring. I am considering my Pastor, if he thinks it is a good idea. Debating about whether or not to tell H beforehand if I decide to bring someone or not.

Of course, the bigger issue at this meeting would be me keeping my mouth shut and not saying things like "Did you know we were still sexual up to this summer?" "Did you know he just broke it off with me in August?" "How do you think that God will bless your union considering it was one built on lies and adultery? How do you think you and your living situation affects the kids view of right vs wrong in a relationship?". Keep in mind that I (we) are pretty religious people so I realize that some people don't agree with some of this. It's where I am coming from.

The other thing that you may want to rethink is your promise to legitimize H's timeline of events. I agree that airing dirty laundry is never the best way to handle things. Your kids are young and vilifying their father is not the answer but to say you'll keep his secret to everyone, even if they ask is not respecting your marriage. It is also being dishonest. It also makes him feel valid in his version of events. You told him how you value honesty and then said you'd protect his lie. That is a mixed message.

I'm not sure I was clear here. I WILL NOT lie to anyone about his affair. IF someone were to discover it I would let them assume it was new. If asked directly I will tell the truth (debating about this with my Dad and sister as they will likely never forgive him if they know). It's not so much that I want to hide it or be dishonest, it's that I am not going to go around saying "Yes, H left me and the kids and has taken up and gotten engaged to a 23 year old", instead I will say that he has decided to D and tells me he has been unhappy for a long time and if asked if there is someone else I will say, yes, he is now engaged to someone else. They can do the math and figure probability if they want.

This just smells of a set up on the part of H and OW. Think about the things they could accuse you of if it is only them and you.

I hadn't considered that. I should bring someone, it's just a matter of who would be the best choice.

My thoughts on your husbands sudden increase in income and its effect is this. Have you and he filed financial affidavits yet?

No, not yet. We are trying to work as much as we can out together, behind the scenes to avoid lawyer fees. I may have to go the route of hiring a forensic accountant but I really don't want to if I can help it. The thing that ticks me off is that he does not want support to be based on this increased income (he's ok with the child support being tied to his income amount) and I feel like it was partly my efforts that even got him to this place. Also, I find myself wondering if I can simply own a portion of his business instead, that way I would reap the benefits of it. Valuation of his business is hard because it has no assets, all income is based solely on HIS efforts.

[fthnluv]

Wow! So much to catch up on here! Is has been an interesting 4 months, with much change, to say the least.

H brought OW to meet me on 12/11/14. He apparently wanted us to meet so that we could "be friends". Ugh. That meeting lasted 1.5 hours and I made sure she knew the truth about everything and how he had been deceiving her too by continuing the relationship with me while he dated/lived with her on the other coast, unbeknownst to me. He gave me permission to speak freely, claiming he had told her everything already (and it seemed he had come clean to her with much of it) but I revealed some things that I don't believe she knew. I asked that she not be introduced to the kids for 6+ months longer, for their emotional well being. He said he would think about it. He left ticked off I think and from that date forward his attitude and behavior towards me has only gotten much, much worse.

H came home to be with the kids for a bit before Christmas but went back to be with OW and her family for Christmas itself. He has then come back about once a month to see the kids. Starting in January he began to always bring the OW with him and (against my wishes) introduced the kids to her and told them he is marrying her and never wants to be with me again. He does have some clarity, my S8 once was talking to him about being his "best man" in the wedding to OW and H pointed out that S8 can't be because the best man should want the bride and the groom to be married and S8 does not want him to marry OW. At least he recognizes that.

In January he decided to cut the support he had been giving me by 40% effective immediately and told me, take it or leave it and I'll fight you in court and you'll get less. He now calls this our "agreement" which I have pointed out was an ultimatum, not an agreement. I have talked to both my D attorney and my child support attorney (D is in one state, child support in another) and they advised to take the deal he is offering. We are nearing the end of working all that out, just wording and minor tweaks left. However, he has recently really entered monster mode so I can see him blowing up at some little change and taking the deal off the table and stopping paying me any day now. I am praying that he recognizes it as his only way to get his divorce soon and he agrees. I don't want to fight him, from a financial and emotional perspective, but if we do I likely won't do much worse (and possibly could do a bit better) than his current offer. He is hell bent on divorcing and doing it soon (even sending me nasty emails that say it all must be finalized by May) and if I fight he will likely be fighting me for another 6+ months at least. He thinks he holds all the cards because he has the $ but I hold all the cards on staying married, at least for a bit, if I want to play them. I have a feeling that he and OW have a summer wedding in the works which would be why he would be in such a rush to get this done.

This change in income forced me to move out of the only home the kids have known and to a much smaller place. I am ok with that change but still getting used to the decrease in the quality of the home. I keep reminding myself that my home is not my idol. We are safe and healthy here. I also had to have surgery shortly after our move. Thankfully my parents were here to help with the kids because H could not have cared less and certainly didn't offer to take care of the kids while I recovered.

I hadn't seen him at all since Dec (he has his Mom do child exchanges) until last week. We did the child exchange due to a Dr appt for D5 and I thought it went well. I was kind and gracious and proud of the way I handled seeing them and them with my children. D5 did cry a lot as she did not want me to leave and I was able to talk to her kindly and pray with her in front of them (while they tried to make small talk with each other and turn up the radio to drown out her sobs) and I was proud of the way I handled it. H then sent me an email the day before I was to get the kids back and told me his Mom would do the exchange because it had been "unnecessarily hard" on the kids (wow! You mean these kids are hurting because of YOUR choices???) and, in addition, he did not want to see or talk to me again for any reason for the "foreseeable future". Umm.... did I do something to deserve this? No, absolutely NOTHING has happened between us (besides him monstering about weekly via email which I always respond to kindly) so I can only assume he does not like the feelings of conviction and guilt he feels when he sees or talks to me.

H has also now rented a house in a nearby town. Not sure if he just wants it to have when he is here 1 week a month so that he does not have to stay with his Mom or if he is setting up to better increase his chances of joint physical custody of the kids. I would actually welcome that, because I think the kids need their Dad in their lives. I wish I could stop the damage that the too-soon introduction of the OW is doing but there is absolutely nothing I can do about that according to my attorney. Ugh.

His latest monster actions are to send a photo home with D5 of he and OW kissing (God helped me not to scream and shout and text and email about how downright cruel and inappropriate that was and to stop using our kids as weapons to hurt me. I simply sent that photo along with other stuff with his Mom and told her I cannot have it in my house. The cruelty speaks for itself.) and then to send me an email telling me not to cash his latest check because it will not clear. Funny, he just had enough money to take OW out of the country for her (22nd!!!) birthday the week before last and enough money to rent and furnish his new place here but he didn't save enough to pay me his obligation. Unfortunately there's nothing I can do about that because nothing is ordered by the court yet.

Good times...