btw, I wouldn't recommend you be available for the first (or necessarily even the second) day/time she wants to meet with you. You're busy GALing, remember? "OK, that's fine but tomorrow night isn't good for me. How about we meet for lunch on Friday?" (purposely offering something 2-3 days in the future, showing you are PERFECTLY okay if you two don't talk before then).
Just a suggestion. Idea is to NOT be sitting around waiting at her beckon call.
Thanks, Starsky- it’s a strange dichotomy for me- I’m definitely eager to have the conversation with her, but am not necessarily eager to reconcile. More accurately, if she is 100% up front and honest, I will have an interest, but there has been so much deceit, minimizing, etc. that if I get bullsh**ed again I’m likely to just walk away from the conversation. Is it unrealistic to expect 100% honesty during the first conversation? I know she’s not going to be pouring her heart out coming clean on all her past transgressions, but on the other hand if she continues her game of minimizing and tries to tell me the A ended months ago I just might lose it. Just don’t know if I’m being realistic to expect sudden, complete honesty, or if it is more of a process with her needing some time (not a lot- maybe a few conversations) to be totally up front with me. At this point I feel BS= D/S, but don’t want to overreact as I’ve come this far.
Me: 45 W:43 M: 15, T:21 2 Kids- S-14, D-12 A Started: 10/2013 Discovered as EA: 6/2014, as PA: 7/2014 A changing, not ending Start DB'ing 9/2014 Same house, same bed
I'm probably the wrong guy to ask on this, as I'm a bit of a "high test score" (or is it "low"?? ) on this subject. I decided for myself that continued DECEIT just didn't work for me. Not on the big stuff. So I re-confronted my wife with the evidence that I had (and bluffed some of the rest), and told her I was no longer willing to sit there and be made to be the bad guy while she lied to our adult daughters and to her own parents, and making it like *I* was the crazy one.
I gave her 5 minutes to decide.
I just told her that even if our marriage was going to end, that we had to co-parent effectively together, and that we'd ALWAYS taught our kids that LYING IN OUR FAMILY wasn't tolerated . . . so why were we doing it now?
But I was ready to let the chips fall where they may.
Starsky, I am hijacking this thread. If you could perhaps look at my thread and gv me your thoughts. I am going to make an ultimatum in next few days. My ww.is jekyll and Hyde. A few good days a few bad ones. This past weekend when she took off for a "catch up on work " for the night I had a conversation with her. Used your line about this isn't a motel, your a mother of 3 young children start acting like one or go find somewhere else to live. She ended up coming home for night so I let it die. She did have a lot of work to do and took off at noon said she was going to hotel for 3 hrs to get work done. I didn't say a word and invited some of our friends over to watch fb.games. She came home Sunday as nice as could be came into my room and put eye drops in my eyes from allergies and was pleasant trying small talk. Nice as could be today calling and texting me small talk. I responded to a few and didn't return calls since she didn't leave a message. It seems she gets angry conversation s when maybe she is on way to see om. I am going to talk to her in next few days when she is in a good mood. I am calmly going to say yes we have some problems, but the big problem is the A. I can't or won't pretend it's not going on. If you won't stop it you need to find another place to live. It's a poor example to our kids.I can't live with you and your lies any longer. And don't want the kids to live like this anymore. I have enabled this to go on way to long. If you feel like this is the future you want I won't stop you, however I will do everything in my power to protect myself and the kids from your actions and won't hide it from anyone.
M 54 W 48 T 19 M 17 D 12 Twin S 6 Twin S 6 Ilybnilwy 1/26/14 A discovered 2/3/14 D filed 7/25/14 Sumons served 8/14/14
Sent a gentle “mediators are available these dates” email to W- she took a while to respond and came back with “Let's talk this weekend. I would like to think we will not need them.
Quote:
Well, even though there was no progress this weekend
So... She said Let's talk this weekend and then didn't talk. That means she really doesn't want to talk about it. You then continue on by reminding her of mediation and then she says this....
Quote:
Well, even though there was no progress this weekend, there at least seems to be a change in attitude. Since W did not raise R talk over the weekend, I sent her an email to firm up the Mediation dates- her response was "I want to talk. I want to turn this mess that I caused around." Then she offered up tomorrow evening.
When someone REALLY means they want to talk about something as serious as losing their marriage, they usually don't come across like they want to talk at a time in the future... We know this is true about your wife because she WENT OVER TO OM'S house and LOST IT so badly that he called you.. Notice she didn't call him on the phone and tell him "I'll come over later and throw things and break it off with you" She HAD to do it NOW... Ask yourself why?
She is putting you off because she isn't convinced you mean business.... since she isn't convinced you mean business it causes her to keep thinking about the OM and not saving the marriage...
There are two things that tug at people's emotions and cause them to panic.. 1.) wanting something they can't have.. 2) Losing something that they may not be able to get back...
Number 1 is what is causing her to keep thinking about OM. Number 2 is how to gently move her to be thinking about you and the marriage and forget about Number 1...
Your BEST way to handle this is to tell HER.. "I have decided that there really isn't anything to talk about"
This takes all the pressure off of her to talk.. She of course will then WANT to talk......
THEN... You use the "I FEEL" statements....
You: I see no reason to talk because I now realize after all that has happened that I don't know how I "FEEL" about YOU anymore and I think that with everything that has happened maybe (use the word maybe because it really doesn't say much but then again says a lot)mediation is for the best....
Understand??? You tell her you DO NOT want to talk.. and then tell her why you don't want to talk.. The interesting thing is that all the while you are telling her you don't want to talk, is that you both WILL be actually having the "TALK"... She will keep telling you "why" you should talk because now YOU don't want to talk.. The talk will happen right then and there as long as you keep telling her there is nothing to talk about... and then give her the reasons there is nothing to talk about.. she then DEFENDS her reasons for the talk.. all the while filling you in on what she is going to do.....
In other words.. You ARE having the talk while neither one of you realizes it... (get it?) Trying to force someone to talk doesn't work.. Sometimes not bringing up wanting to talk doesn't work as you found out this weekend when you didn't bring it up and waited on her to bring it up again... Now you are again in the same position waiting on her... and we also know that forcing or pressuring them to talk doesn't work.. So what's your next option to get the talk to happen???
Your answer is... change tactics.. Tell her there is NOTHING to talk about and you think this is for the best... She then has 2 choices... TALK or go to mediation..
SEE how that works? And you haven't come across as the one "wanting to talk".....
If you just keep telling her there is nothing to talk about and you don't know how you feel, it will automatically produce a talk....... It will cause her to WANT to talk.. The talk will actually happen during this time...
Just tell her "I have decided there really is nothing to talk about because I don't know how I FEEL about things anymore and maybe this is for the best...
A talk will then occur... (Of course.. make sure you tell her that you have decided there is really nothing to talk about when you are face to face and have a little time to talk because it could lead to a long talk.)
IF she is serious about wanting to save the marriage then she WILL have the talk with you when you convince her that you are now not sure what you want... Just sayin....
Well, just had the R talk and I think I'm more confused than ever.
W focused on our historical problems and stated grave uncertainty that we can save the M, but that we should try for three more months and see where we are.
When I asked what changed, she stated that the A was over but without making and real admissions that it A continued other than saying that before now "she was only half in" and thought she could manage the situation(fixing M problems while continuing A)but she now knows how everything outside the M hurt it and has to not be a part of it going forward. Lots of talk about her IC and how its just screwed up her head and made her confused by focusing on the past and why she is where she is versus focusing on what she wants her life to be (she needs a results oriented coach). W says we should try to work on R for three months and see what happens-she's also unsure M may work out, but three months gets us through the holidays (for the kids) and allows us to feel we gave it our best shot.
I gave the "gee I'm unsure" "how can I trust" "this is the fourth time you've told me A is over" etc. and she just shrugged her shoulders and said she understands my point. I really harped on truth as the foundation for any future relationship and she just agreed.
No hint of being desperate or fearful M may end- she seemed more hurt and confused than anything else.
My gut tells me she is still processing loss of OM and not in a place to think clearly about M- she isn't ready for M to end but doesn't seem to be doing what she needs to save it because her head is such a mess right now.
Now I owe her a response (will wait a day or two) from my "I'll think about it" stance but my gut tells me she is not ready to offer transparency or NC.
I'm so spent not sure I want to open myself up to being hurt again, either.
Lots to think about how I move this forward.
Last edited by Bart42; 10/07/1410:32 PM.
Me: 45 W:43 M: 15, T:21 2 Kids- S-14, D-12 A Started: 10/2013 Discovered as EA: 6/2014, as PA: 7/2014 A changing, not ending Start DB'ing 9/2014 Same house, same bed
Yep, pretty much sums up my thinking right now. A few hours after R talk W joins the family on the couch and wedges herself between D and me so that our bodies touch-nothing special, but the first real effort either one of us has made in a month to connect.
I don't feel she is stringing me along to cake eat- I believe the A has ended (at least for now) but that she is as unsure as I am that M can work. Problem is her doubts are based on our historical issues and my doubts are based on the deceit that surrounded the A and that she will lie to me again at the drop of a hat if she feels it's more convenient for her.
DR says keep doing what works, which would be detaching and GAL but I'm just so torn- I will of course keep up the PMA and being the strong confident H that she would be a fool to let go, but I feel like unless we both start working on the R we are headed to D. Question is do I "break", show her that I can be the type of man who she can love/trust and who can provide a safe environment (throuh compassionate actions and working on the R, not by words) rather than being dim/dark or do I keep up the hard line "I want a D unless you can promise me Transparency" which frankly, is a commitment she is going to break if she wants to anyway?
Somebody on another thread said you can demand all the passwords/NC/ transparency you want but unless WAS is ready to provide it there is always a way around it- I feel like W wants to come back, but is unsure it is the right move or a safe place for her, and it now may be up to me to show her that it is. How I give her what she needs in order to see hope for us while setting boundries I can live with is my big delimma right now.
Me: 45 W:43 M: 15, T:21 2 Kids- S-14, D-12 A Started: 10/2013 Discovered as EA: 6/2014, as PA: 7/2014 A changing, not ending Start DB'ing 9/2014 Same house, same bed
Trying to do this without a promise of no-contact (and preferably, a NC letter sent) and full transparency is only going to lead to heartbreak.
I realize that both are essential components if we are to save the M. In a brief conversation with W today I stated I will not be able to move forward without NC and transparency. She agreed. What I am struggling with is what each should look like in our circumstance. NC we are mostly aligned on as W says neither her nor OM wants contact. Problem is W seeing OM in group settings that she is comfortable with and I am not (like in a group class together at her gym). I think she will send the NC letter if I ask. On the transparency front, I feel that W may grudgingly agree to some form of it but I fear she will not be committed to it and as I stated earlier, even if she gives me every password its not that hard to hide things if she wants to. That said, I recognize a big benefit of transparency is the fear of being discovered and how that helps motivate WAS to stay on the right path.
So I feel transparency is the real catch-22: what I really need is her to open up and want me to have access or at least be committed to granting me access because she understands and believes (even if she doesn't want to) that it is a necessary element to rebuilding trust. Problem is to get her to feel safe and that she can open her life up to me without fear requires solving many of the issues that led our M problems- the fact that I can be a cold, judgmental, critical hardass who will "grill" and "interrogate" her about everything and that she is a very closed person who really doesn't let any family or friends in.
So round and round this goes in my head.
Last edited by Bart42; 10/08/1405:08 PM.
Me: 45 W:43 M: 15, T:21 2 Kids- S-14, D-12 A Started: 10/2013 Discovered as EA: 6/2014, as PA: 7/2014 A changing, not ending Start DB'ing 9/2014 Same house, same bed
) on this subject. I decided for myself that continued DECEIT just didn't work for me. Not on the big stuff. So I re-confronted my wife with the evidence that I had (and bluffed some of the rest), and told her I was no longer willing to sit there and be made to be the bad guy while she lied to our adult daughters and to her own parents, and making it like *I* was the crazy one.