Let's try this again

[Card29]

Thank you for the kind words on my thread, T

[woundedfool]

Any updates?

[T384]

Wounded - I was beginning to think you forgot about me

Not much new to report around here. We've all been super busy with the holidays and work has been slammed. H is actually in the process of potentially accepting a new job. He was offered a job he had when we were in another part of the state a few years ago. The company has grown and is opening up a few more places closer to us. However, the 'closest' one is by my work (about 120 miles roundtrip) which would lead us both to commuting to the same area. He believes it would only be temporary because they are also looking for a place in our area. I'm indifferent. He used to commute and always complained about it but he would be making 75% more than he is making now which would take a big weight off his shoulders (mine too). I've laid low on this decision -- I told him not to feel pressured into either decision and to make what he feels is best for him and our family and we will support him either way. I did say to make sure he really thinks about both decisions pros and cons instead of just jumping at a large pay increase. We're a little spoiled with his current job, small company, makes his own hours, vacations/days off whenever. He would be losing that with a larger company. So anyway we will see

As far as us .. We are doing well. Short of my last meltdown we haven't had any large issues. He's much better at communicating things with me. I personally think that what has saved us is separate bank accounts and splitting the bills. We used to argue a lot over money and his lack of paying attention to what was due when and how much money we had. So now that he is responsible for his own money I don't have to feel like a mother nagging him about bills. He knows whats due when.

I'm really looking forward to 2015. We are so ready to have all these house projects and some vehicles sold so that we can actually enjoy our days off and do things vs always have a large project to be on top of.


My IC tells me for every negative there should be 5 positives... So I'm trying to wrap my head around this and how I can accomplish that. He suggests more Mc sessions vs IC. He believes H needs to see that just because I don't bring up the past that it doesn't mean I don't struggle with it. And that his actions need to be consistent to prove to me that there is a change in him. I fear my H got off too easy and what is to stop him from this happening again in the future. So that's really a goal for me in MC to figure out how to keep things going in the right direction. I know nobody can predict the future but I certainly do not want to go through this again.

Anyway, we had our annual Christmas photos over the weekend ... It's still strange to me. I feel like those 6 months were a bad dream. It's almost scary how easily things have come back together. everyone that is around us commends us (well me) of how strong I am to just move forward as I have (if they only knew). It still stings to hear people say things like I can't believe it after all he did and how could you forgive him, then my mind starts running into all the things that happened... But then I make a conscious effort to stop those thoughts and remind whomever it is that its a choice we both made and we are a work in progress, the people that love us want us to be happy and those who do not aren't all that important then anyway. When. People ask what's to stop him from doing this again... I try not to go there but simply say I wouldnt know if I didn't try. And I just can't not give it my best shot. I know these are the friends that worry about me because they were there through my dark days during our S and I believe their thoughts come with the best intentions so I try not to feed into it.


Well I'm rambling as always and it's hard to make sense on my phone entirely. I hope everyone is well. I still try and keep up with those 'I know' stories even if I don't comment much. I hope everyone has a happy holiday and know that I am thankful for all of you

[woundedfool]

I've laid low on this decision -- I told him not to feel pressured into either decision and to make what he feels is best for him and our family and we will support him either way.

I think that was a perfect answer, I would not have answered it any different.

My IC tells me for every negative there should be 5 positives...

I like this as a thought, and maybe its why I am not a counselor.... but I would be careful not to get too hung up on the actual ratio, for me 2:1 would be a great direction.

I fear my H got off too easy and what is to stop him from this happening again in the future.

*please note* I am NOT dismissing your feelings, they are quite warranted, and understandable. But I want you to take a quick perspective from him (regarding the "got off too easy"):

You can carry that view, but... what if the view is: I had a really great marriage and great wife, a great family, and I absolutely squandered it away (much like someone hitting the lottery going into bankruptcy). I need to work very hard every day because my angel of a spouse has given me a second chance.

It still stings to hear people say things like I can't believe it after all he did and how could you forgive him,

A very simple (and try not to be confrontational about it) answer is: Well getting a divorce is easy... any moron with $3000.00 can do it. Love, forgiveness and WORK are priceless.

People ask what's to stop him from doing this again...

If you feel like engaging: "Well, whats to stop ME from doing it"?

I hope everyone has a happy holiday and know that I am thankful for all of you

Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas, Joyous Kwanzaa, Festive Festivus!

[T384]

Thanks wounded-

Yes 5:1 can be a little overwhelming. I'm aiming at more positives than negatives for now. I don't know where we are honestly. It seems H is done 'pursuing' me. I knew that full force wouldn't last forever but I didn't think it would do a 180. He seems back to his 'old self'. Comments about just being stressed at work. I would swear I was in a time warp. I feel I have done a lot to change my reactions and approaches to things we I deal with wrong in the past. But I'm still here with pretty much the same person. I feel so defeated. I feel like a WAW. I'm just having a bad day but I do feel down.

I want the man that showed me affection and could have a conversation more than just yes. I had attributed the last couple weeks to holiday and work stress but even on vacation it's more of the same. Trying to DB myself out of this one. I told H he seems annoyed with me at times and that he doesn't want to seem to carry on a conversation. He said he doesn't believe that. So I'll agree to disagree at this point. Come on MC

Ugh I am such a work in progress. This may sound selfish but since I feel like I can be honest here ... He should be busting his ass for this R! I'm trying to do my work of telling him my feelings and how I feel that I'm not a priority to him lately. I am trying to experiment with what works and I have not been very fruitful lately.

Anyway ... Thanks to whomever is listening. Happy New Year to everyone!

[Maybell]

T, I'm listening, but I don't know what to say. So I'll just send you a hug and say one way or another 2015 will be your year.

[T384]

Thanks Maybell. I'm hoping 2015 will be a great year for everyone here! I follow your sitch I just don't feel like a vet with much insight

Any advice is welcomed as always for me

D abatement is coming up the end of January. I will have to make my decision. My answer without the cool off before you answer period would be I am leaning towards D. It's not what I want but I want to be with someone that shows he loves me not just because he wanted me back

[Ile Guy]

T... End of jan is a long way off...As a guy, Maybe he is waiting to see if you fall into your old self again... encourage him to go out and reconnect... NO SEX!!! that will only confuse the issue. and no pressures. Just hang out and create an environment that he wants to be around. You have 4 weeks... No more melt downs.. try to reconnect and let him take notice that you are changing the environment. He knows you love him.... don't be needy... make those 180's and keep up the PMA. remember, there will be setbacks... but he already chose you once and there is even less reasons now that he wont again!!! just reconnect and tackle the issues afterwards....

Good luck.. we're in your corner on this.

Prayers out to you and for him..

[Train]

Hey, T!!!

Really, super dumb question down below, but I haven't seen you spell it out, so I'll ask:

Have you and your H gone on a date lately? Just the two of you? (It can be your idea, too, even though I know you wish he'd take the initiative and you likely feel he owes that to you. And fwiw, I AGREE.) But here's my BIGGER question: On one of these dates, have you relaxed and actually ASKED for what you want and need from him right now?

I'm gonna ramble here ...

We are expected to meet our partner's needs. But sometimes, we're just shooting in the dark at what those needs truly are. A lot of times, we even show love to our spouses in the way WE would best receive love. And we do that sometimes at our own demise. Love is felt and experienced differently for different people, and especially, research (and experience) suggests, between the sexes. I also feel there's a big "hole" that exists between what we read for busting a divorce and what we need to piece a M back together and to sustain love in a relationship - and especially one that has been ripped apart at one point by adultery. For instance, while trying to bust our divorces - or bust our spouses' affairs - we are *supposed* to act independent and carefree. But when Piecing begins, to act independent and carefree is actually careless ... and even detrimental. All a sudden, we need to be a team. And we need to show a little vulnerability. (At the same time, you should ALWAYS remember that you are okay alone. That is a GOOD thing for you to know. You are the cake. He is the frosting.)

But I digress ...

I think you're spot-on with a lot of things. You always have been. And I'll agree with many others that your H may be watching *you* and your patterns ... and maybe he DOES feel inferior to you. And that's not cool in a man's world. But at least based on what you're saying, you ARE trying to love and admire him ... and to forgive him. And - man! - do I KNOW how difficult that is!!

And *of course* you feel this is all unfair! (It IS.) You're the one who was cheated on! You're the one who was abandoned by the man who swore he would love, honor, cherish and protect you FOREVER! And he did the complete OPPOSITE. Honey, it's hard telling how long that wound will take to heal. Certainly not in 6 months, though. Have patience with yourself.

But here's the thing: While it's going to take time, it's also going to take TWO of you stepping up to the plate at the same time. And, T, I'll just be real: unfortunately, some people just don't step up to bat no matter *what* those of us wanting our M to work do. But you have to at least tell your H - specifically - what you need and want from him. *If* he's going to fail, you both need to VERBALLY set the parameters *now* of what "failure" looks like ... if that makes sense.

If you've done that? Then good for you. And I think it's entirely unfair and unacceptable that he isn't at least trying to be *consistent* in providing it to you. Especially this soon out of the gate. In other words, I can feel your frustration in very real ways if you've told him what you need to help you through this and he is outright not providing that to you consistently. And if that's the case, I'm so sorry you're going through that. It isn't fair.

It sounds like you're trying really hard and you continue to work on your side of the street; that's all anyone can ask of you. But do I think that at this stage your H should be stepping up and giving you the things you've told him will help you move past this nightmare? Um, yes. ABSOLUTELY. IMO, as long as you are working to be the W he needs, he should be working TWICE as hard to reassure YOU that he's faithful and committed to your R.

Let me be clear: You both need to be prepared to wake up every day, for the rest of your lives, deliberately choosing to meet each others' needs. (That's where the "work" comes in.) But if your H is having a hard time doing it now? Okay, have patience with him, absolutely. But not at your own demise. If he were still a WAS, then I'd say: Hang in there until you're done. But to come back and say he wants to work on your M ... and then actively avoid doing the very things you've told him you'd need him to do to help you work through this ... is just careless.

So back to my question: Have you gone out with him lately? STRIKE the conversations of money or kids. Schedule date-nights that are specifically free of conversations about affairs, jobs, kids or money. (Scary, eh? Because if you're anything like me, you're thinking: "Okay, Train. Then WHAT will we talk about?!?" It's a challenge, believe me. But TRY it!) This is about you two. Finding your spark again. Focusing on the two people who CREATED a family. (You had to love each other before you created your kids; you HAD to have something you talked about before kids and finances came into play ...)

And - more importantly - have you told him what you NEED? Have you asked for that, point-blank?

If you haven't, it's far past time, sweetie.

[T384]

Train, I am so happy to hear from you

Thank you so much for taking the time to post. I am on my phone as always and will try to touch on all the great questions you pose

So A : date night. No we have not. Funny you say that. I recently brought up to H. You haven't planned a date night for us recently (in a joking tone but not really joking) he said he knows we are both busy with work and the holidays and he was waiting for those to pass. I told him as our MC told us I thought it was important for us to have date nights doing anything as long as it involved just the two of us. He really went out of his way for the first few months. We even took weekends away. We haven't had one since the beginning of November, unless you count wrapping presents lol

I think where we are really hurting is MC. We haven't been together in awhile. He is not at fault for that it is 90% on me ... He told me he will go whenever I can go that I just need to make the appt based on my schedule and he will be there. So I really need to change that and make an appt for us to start going regularly together

So as far as telling H what I need. I am great at telling him what bothers me but not great at offering a solution always. I can tell him how he makes me feel but not how he can change it ... For example as I wrote before I told him I felt I annoy him. He gives me yes no ok short answers. He lacks physical touch besides sex. I mean I get a kiss before and after work but no physical touch when we are out and about like he was for the first few months. I'm not saying I'm into full PDA because I am not but I do like when he holds my hand for no reason, wraps his arms around me, or just touches me. I haven't said too much on that subject either.

Piecing for me has been so much harder for me. Like
You said you have to go from being independent to a team. And not only a team but rebuilding something that was broken especially with trust issues and a precious A. I fear I let H back in too easily. Financially we really couldn't afford to sustain two households (yes I'm making excuses) but he had already ran himself into so much debt. Again I know it's his problem but our MC was fully supportive of him moving back in as we discussed it a lot. However our R was seamless. My family welcomed him with open arms. He never really struggled much so I dont know if he appreciates our M or me as much as he would had he had to work harder. Oh well ... Coulda woulda shoulda right


Him feeling inferior to me has always been an issue. I am very independent and strong willed. It may not have sounded that way during my posts in our S but I really am! I am take charge and H is more laid back. I now make more money than him. I think that is a big issue too. Luckily financial arguments havenf been an issue but I am paying much more of the bills than he is due to his pay cut and accumulated debt. Then I get to thinking... Seriously! I'm paying more for you to live here so you can pay off your debt from when
You were with OW! Totally unfair ... But it's the choice I made.

So I need to be clear about what I NEED not just what bothers me. I need you to do XYZ not ABC bothers me.

And really what on earth do we talk about?!? I sat there wondering that tonight. What do people talk about that don't have children and responsibilities! I haven't brought up the A/D/S since my last meltdown in the beginning of October. We talk a lot about the boys and our house projects and work.

So anyway thank you Train ... I am sorry this is probably all jumbled as usually. I can't keep a clear concise thought to save my life. I hope all is well in your neck of the woods and with your daughter