OK, first post! Really glad to have found this resource and forum, after finding so much conflicting nonsense on the internet. Reading these forums for a few weeks has given me a lot of strength in my day to day.
My story in brief: I've known my wife for a little over ten years, and we have been married for 9. We fell madly in love almost immediately on meeting. We were both at crossroads/confused periods in our life, 23 years old without much career direction, and we bonded over a shared outlook of the world. We were best friends and lovers. She got pregnant within a year, which was the impetus for us getting married, which I realize now was the first unstable step in our life together. It wasn't planned and we probably weren't ready, but we figured we were smart, loving and responsible enough to do it, and for the most part we have been, though it has been a stressful road.
Our relationship has been mostly happy and peaceful, with all of our problems burbling beneath the surface. In general, I am a very agreeable person, extremely conflict-avoidant and sensitive to other people's emotions. W is a bit more fiery, opinionated, and used to asserting what she wants and getting her way. She's very easy going, but when it gets down to it, our dynamic is that I make accommodations for her moods, off days, and sometimes impulsive decisions. I am also someone who struggles with depression and anxiety, for which I have taken various ADs over the years and had IC (I am currently doing both). I am more or less open about my depression. My close friends and family know about it, W knows about it and knew about it when she met me. It's my belief that W also struggles with issues like these, in addition to several nagging health problems (stomach pain, joint pain, fatigue) but her approach is to put up a front of strength to those around her. She is very hard to help (unless she needs me to watch the kids all day while she is in bed) and usually diagnoses her own ailments herself. When we first met, she was seeing an IC and taking AD, but stopped soon after we began dating because she didnt like the side effects. Since then, she has sworn off therapy and ADs every time I have brought them up, and has also been less than enthusiastic about me taking them (pointing out the side effects a lot). She is skeptical to western medicine in general; she works as an herbalist at an acupuncture clinic and is far more inclined to alternative healing strategies to her problems, which I support but....I ultimately doubt how much they work.
Anyway: Our situation now is a bit of replay of something that first happened in 2011. After several months of growing distance between us (I was working a pretty crazy schedule, she was back in school, and we had two young boys), I drunkenly made a pass at a friend. Nothing happened beyond that, but it was still a betrayal. A few weeks went by and W did the same thing with OM, a friend of her BFF. We came clean to eachother and promised to work things out, but W very quickly shifted away from that to having an A with OM, which went on, off and on, for the rest of the year. I hung on, us each spending time out of the house, and eventually went on some dates with an LF (at W's urging) but broke that off after a short time. It made me feel good, but was too weird and soon. Soon after, W came back, apologized and recommitted to the M. I was so elated to have her back that I basically accepted her completely and things quickly went back to "normal". Almost immediately, she became pregnant again, which was unplanned and highly unlikely, considering we were using protection (except once I guess). I had fears that a new baby would introduce more stress than our fragile R could handle, but ultimately dove headlong into the whole process, being as supportive and loving as possible (I think I am generally pretty good at this and W would agree).
Beginning this year is where things started to slowly crumble down. Our newborn was now a year old, sleep was hard to come by, we were wracked by schedule and money stress. We had lost our insurance, so I had stopped taking ADs. At first, I thought I adjusted fine, but a few months in I started to realize what a mistake this was. My mood darkened, my anxiety skyrocketed. I'm sure I was not fun to be around, but I did still dedicate myself to taking care of wife and kids and job. I should say that W hates my job, but its always been hard to discern whether she just hates that I have a job that I dont get fulfillment from, that I have a job that doesnt make enough money, OR that I have a job that takes me out of the house, leaving her to be a SAHM. She started a job last fall, which was great for her and I wholly supported, but it added another aspect to our already complex schedule, and took a lot out of her energy wise. She has been a bit of a drinker for several years, but it got much worse this year, drinking wine every afternoon into the night. She said once or twice that she needed help stopping, and I, in my fog of depression, did nothing beyond lamely encouraging her to try to stop. This is one of my greatest regrets. I was too sick myself to see how sick she was.
In late July, she went out several nights in a row, in a manner that was a bit unusual. I started to suspect something was going on, and when she didnt come home one night until 5am, i looked at her open FB page and saw a message with a guy referencing them hanging out. Soon after, we went on a "date" which turned into her asking me for an open relationship. Everything after that is basically textbook. "ILYBINILWY, we are better off apart, we bring eachother down, i need to choose my path independent of you, i have never been single, its not about the OM, he was just the catalyst, we shouldnt stay in an unhappy M just for the kids, a M is just a piece of paper, I am not attracted to you and see you as a friend". All kinds of things that she never would have said a year ago, and if I had ever said to her she would completely melt down. While she put a lot of our relationship issues on me and my depression, she didnt have a lot of specific reasons for leaving, beyond vaguely accusing me of not supporting her emotionally and spiritually. I made all kinds of mistakes at first: begged and pleaded, announced all kinds of plans to work on things, called her BFF and sister and mom (I am close with all 3), acted hurt and devastated every time i saw her, etc.
Since then I have slowly been trying to get in control. She doesnt really have the $$ to move out, though she says she wants to, and has been looking at apartments. I opened a separate bank account, a move that she found threatening, but honestly I'm glad I did. One of her complaints is that she has always had to bear the stress of our finances, and now I am doing that, and its already felt like a confidence boost (and I think she is secretly relieved). I asked her to move out to somewhere temporary for now, as kindof a trial separation, which was hard to do as I dont want this to happen at all, but felt the need to make what shes asking for feel more real to her, as for several weeks now she has just been coming and going as she pleases, rather obviously pursuing OM, and seeming oblivious to how our poor kids are handling this (which is not well). She refuses to leave until she is ready. I went through a few weeks of obsessing with WTH is going on in her mind but now I am easing off of that.
Since discovering DB, I've realized that Ive been following some of the steps already, and have doubled my efforts on all the rest. My GAL plans are exercise, yoga, meditation, quitting smoking, and maybe joining a pickup hockey league. In just two weeks, I feel its much easier to be around her, and we have gone close to a week without any kind of discussion of the S, beyond some money Qs, which I have tried to handle calmly. She even called me "honey" twice the other day. I know this will be a long road, but I feel better now than i did just weeks ago. Any advice for the LBS dealing with a depressed, alcoholic, generally foggy/befuddled WAW? I love her with all my heart, though I have faced down a reality of detaching her from my life. Sad sad sad.
M: 33 W: 33 M: 9 T: 10 3 S's: 8, 6 and 1.5 BD: 8/3/14 Living together
Whoa that was long. I can be pretty verbose, ill have to work on it. Luckily it is something my wife likes about me (I think?)
Some more quick facts about my sitch:
We are currently sleeping in different rooms. I moved into our office which has a futon for guests. Its also our dumping ground for to-be-folded laundry (which often never gets folded), and the other day I went through everything and put everything away for me and the kids, except her stuff which I put in two huge baskets which are now in her room. that felt good! in general, we are slackers when it comes to upkeep of the house. i have always been more of the chore doer, but i am no means a neat freak. W however, is pretty slack in this category, and I realize that I have built up a lot of resentment about this over the years. My 180 is to start doing all of the things I have slacked on doing around the house. But not necessarily for her.
My wife spends many nights out of the house now. I never really did, but I am now 100% not pressuring her or asking her about where she's going, only when she will return. She seems to be in disbelief that this is strange to the kids, to have her gone many nights, and for full days on the weekends, but I am not "using them" against her at the moment. There doesnt seem to be a good way to talk about what she is doing without pushing a button, so I am just detaching and being there for the kids.
I took my ring off for about a week as a kindof symbolic acceptance of whats going on. But it felt awful. I kept feeling for it and then being flooded with emotions. When I went to double check that it was still where I left it (in a random tchotchke drawer), it had HERS nesting inside of it. Hers hadnt been there when I'd put it in the drawer. That coincidence, that she had found the drawer I put the ring in without asking me, somehow...had some kind of heavy significance to it. When I went to put my ring back on, I tied a small piece of red string around her ring. I will now keep mine on until this is over.
Since actively starting to follow the DB "rules", I have seen some positives. W has noticed that my mood is up. On Sunday when she came home - at 4pm - I mentioned that the boys and I had pancakes for breakfast. "You went out?" "No, I made them" "Wow, I'm impressed!" Ive never been much in the kitchen and she has mentioned that over the years.
On Saturday, W left town all day to take her first session of a master herbalist class. When she came back that night, we sat and talked about it for 20 minutes. She was very exhilarated by the class, and I listened and engaged with her, asking questions and validating her. It was great to see her so happy about something and I told her this. Her reply was "Now we need to find something like this for YOU to do!" Then she left for the night "to celebrate".
A random breakthrough yesterday. If you can follow this, i applaud you. My Ws AP from her '11 affair is now in a relationship with her BFF. Its somewhat mind-boggling to me but I have accepted it, and I never see him. Until yesterday! I made plans to take S's to the zoo after school and so did BFF and W's old AP. I said "F it" and went anyway. And AP apologized to me! It was quite a moment and I thanked him. He said he wished he had listened to him (I finally gave in and called OM, which I know is usually a no-no), and that it was the greatest mistake he's ever made. BFF called me later to say we had both done a good job and that she was impressed, and that she had talked to W and she was also impressed. I guess that gives a sign that I am a forgiving person, or a bigger person, not sure.
Today she woke up with bad stomach pains, and struggled to get out the door to go to work. It's here where I struggle most with DBing. On the one hand, I feel like I need to leave her to handle her own struggles, so she knows what being "independent" truly means. On the other hand, I have always taken care of her, and I wonder if one thing she's wanted to change is for me to be more "present" and thoughtful in how I take care of her. So I thought for awhile, and decided to bring her some gatorade and rice crackers at work, before I went to work. I dropped them off and she was absolutely beaming, got up and gave me a big warm hug. I'm not taking anything away from it. It honestly just felt good to do something nice for her. I know what she needs to feel better more than anyone else.
thats it for now, i promise less rambling in the future!
M: 33 W: 33 M: 9 T: 10 3 S's: 8, 6 and 1.5 BD: 8/3/14 Living together
I feel like I am at a better place now than I was for the first few weeks. Of course, we had lots of conversations then, some of which I directed, others where she did most of the talking. In some of them, she seemed confused or overwhelmed by her decision, but ultimately she got more and more decisive. Its the things she said in these convos that have really stuck with me. We are better off as friends? She's not attracted to me? (this one hurt, I havent changed in appearance in any way from the day we met, really...so this must be an intangible attraction that has disappeared)
I fluctuate between believing all of the things she's said and seeing her mood and actions as just shutting down the possibility of rekindling these things, and then this other feeling that she's just taking some extreme "vacation" from her responsibilities as a wife and mother. She's slowly been detaching from those responsibilities, and this seems like a radical extension of that. She claims (and two other friends of hers who have approached me have also agreed) that the OM is not a major factor, and I want to believe that. I dont think she's falling for him, but using him for an escape. I wonder if one day the reality of how much this is going to change her life will hit her, and she will want to work. A lot of the advice I get from family and friends is that she is acting very selfish and escapist, and they question if she could ever sincerely atone and reverse what she's doing. I dont know. But I do know that I'm at a greater place of acceptance of life without her than I was six weeks ago.
The biggest block, right now, is her default response to this situation is just "if we split, life will go on". Her parents divorced when she was 10, and they handled it relatively well, it sounds like. Though I have been told that she took it really badly for several years, she now acts as if it was the best for her and her sister and parents. There's this total denial that any of this will cause trauma. I come from a family that is still intact, so I have the exact opposite stance, and when we talk about R (which we havent now, for about 2 weeks, thank god), she just says we have irreconcilable differences about marriage. But she never told me any of these "differences" before now! Frustrating.
M: 33 W: 33 M: 9 T: 10 3 S's: 8, 6 and 1.5 BD: 8/3/14 Living together
Last night after we all got home from oldest S' open house at school, she said she was leaving to do some work for her new course. My thinking now is that she will use " needing to get some work done" as a reason to leave whenever she wants. I put the kids to bed on my own. Later I texted her that we need a few things from the store for the kids tomorrow morning, and she responds that she might stay out (which means that she will stay out) and that she'll bring them home with her when she comes home to help get me get them to school. This morning she texts that she has a bad fever and can't make the drive. I now have to take both boys to school solo and bring the baby with me. And we don't have the lunch stuff we need.
This is where I struggle. I have a hard time laying down boundaries as it creates friction, and I'm trying to just leave her to the consequences of her own decisions. But this is something else. And it's her friction!
M: 33 W: 33 M: 9 T: 10 3 S's: 8, 6 and 1.5 BD: 8/3/14 Living together
I've read lots of good advice here, such as replacing the word "doormat" with "devoted husband/father". This experience has really kicked my rear to pick up in the areas that I have slacked so that I can do 100% of this job on my own, if need be. That feels good, and I have confidence. But I still feel like a doormat. If I laid down in front of the door on her way out, she would walk right over me.
I spend time every day working to identify my role in this, and I have faith in the process, that it will take a long time for her to observe my changes. But I wonder if it will even matter to her. All I want to do right now is present her the most stable option, and a better version of me. But I fear that ultimately she won't want to do the work to earn ME back, and I just have to come to terms with that.
M: 33 W: 33 M: 9 T: 10 3 S's: 8, 6 and 1.5 BD: 8/3/14 Living together
This is where I struggle with detaching. No word from her since the 7am text. Is she still sick? Did she call out of work and spend the morning sleeping in OMs bed? Is she just hungover? I'm able to carry on normally but these thoughts are on my mind. It just feels wrong to not know where/how she is. The thing is, since she never came home, I have the car she needs to pick up the baby later. So she'll have to contact me to arrange to get it from me. I'm tempted to check in and remind her of that but she has to remember so I'll just wait.
M: 33 W: 33 M: 9 T: 10 3 S's: 8, 6 and 1.5 BD: 8/3/14 Living together
Well, she ended up texting to get the key around 2pm. Came by my work at 3 and seemed really out of it, and said she must have caught a virus. I really have no idea what is up and what is down with her health at this point. Between the general lack of energy she's had for months (years really), an enlarged thyroid (which emerged right around the time of BD), her drinking (which she is now hiding from me more or less completely, it feels like shes leaving the house to drink, but i really dont know), and her generally weakened immune system, I have NO idea what to make of her condition on any given day. And yes, I can only assume that she didnt go to work at all yesterday, and spent the morning resting in OMs bed. This isnt even hurtful to me at this point, its just profoundly strange and sad.
This is where I need BD advice. On the one hand, I am focusing on what I need to do to provide for the kids and myself without her help (I couldnt even rely on her to pick up cereal and juice boxes yesterday), and I feel like I'm making positive strides towards that. I can do it without her. On the other, I feel like she really needs to address whatever it is that is wrong with her, in order to be my partner in parenting, much less my partner in marriage. It feels like any statements I make to her about this are pursuing and pressuring, and also will probably only elicit a negative reaction from her.
It feels like were in a cartoon and we've both run off of the cliff, and neither one of us wants to look down and realize that we aren't standing on anything. Do I just let her fall?
M: 33 W: 33 M: 9 T: 10 3 S's: 8, 6 and 1.5 BD: 8/3/14 Living together
Also, she was supposed to have her initial intake appointment for a one-on-one session with a MC, with the plan that we would then go together after I had a one-on-one (I am already seeing an IC at the same facility, and she will pass me off to the couples specialist at that point). On Sunday she mentioned the appointment, but since then, nothing. She said nothing about it on Tuesday, not even "oh I went to the intake, it was fine". I'm assuming she didn't go.
M: 33 W: 33 M: 9 T: 10 3 S's: 8, 6 and 1.5 BD: 8/3/14 Living together
Thanks NewLeaf. I was starting to wonder! I think I ramble too much.
So far I havent done anything on that. Realistically, I really dont have a ton of free time. That might be the farthest off 180. I live in WI, and I usually skate a lot on the lakes in town when it gets colder. Might just stick to that for now, and finding a pickup game. I have been going to the gym, which has had immediate effects on my mood.
I havent read the books. I'd like to. But I'm wary of bringing them into my house! Even though we're in separate rooms, i feel like my wife and I still live on top of eachother. I'd have a hard time hiding them. Might hit up the library on an off day.
M: 33 W: 33 M: 9 T: 10 3 S's: 8, 6 and 1.5 BD: 8/3/14 Living together
- I mentioned that the boys and I had pancakes for breakfast. "You went out?" "No, I made them" "Wow, I'm impressed!" Ive never been much in the kitchen and she has mentioned that over the years.