Trying to find my way

[Meghan]

Hi everyone – I discovered this forum a few weeks ago. I’ve read so many threads and have found them to be really helpful, and I’m hoping that some of you might be able to help guide me through some of this process. I’ve written this out in a lot of detail – I’m sorry it’s so long, but I hope that it’s helpful.

My husband (36) and I (34) have been together for 10 years and married for 4. We met online and lived in different countries. I was initially engaged to someone who was emotionally abusive. It took me a year to end that relationship, which was very hard on him. While dating we had long trips back and forth. When we were married, he moved here to be with me. He dropped the bomb almost four months ago. We’re in couples counseling now, and I have a long-term individual counselor too. The main issues:

The first main issue he brought up was the lack of sex. I haven’t really been interested in sex since we were married. He brought this up a few times over the years and feels that I wasn’t interested in fixing it. I’d approached my doctor many times, but was always told that it was stress (a birth control change recently helped things). This was something that I should have pushed harder to fix, but I suspect I was assuming he wouldn’t leave. He expanded on this a few days later and said that he felt like we didn’t have emotional intimacy and that everything I do is selfish and self-focused and that I like having him around to take care of me rather than to have him as a true partner. He therefore also doesn’t trust that any changes that I’ve made are about wanting him to be happy rather than just trying to save the marriage because I get something out of it and am afraid to lose him. Because of the lack of sex, emotional connection, and effort to fix things, he feels that I left the relationship years ago.

It’s also become clear that he feels like all he’s done is sacrifice and change since we were married in order to accommodate me. He moved here to be with me and is upset because he now doesn’t have a job or friends, is away from his family and the big city, put on weight, and feels worthless. I do agree that there are big sacrifices there, but he suggested we get married the same day that he found out he’d been laid off, couldn’t claim unemployment benefits, and realized he only had a month’s worth of expenses to live on. Until recently, in the four years he’s lived here he applied for 6 (I think) jobs and turned down – with a “blessing” that I wasn’t thrilled about giving – the two jobs he was offered. He also hasn’t really tried to make any friends.

The other issue is work, responsibility, and caretaking. Since our wedding, I’ve been focused first on finishing a grad degree and then on work and he feels that I haven’t held our marriage as a priority. I’d agree that I’ve been overly focused on my work – I’m the breadwinner, I don’t make a lot of money, and my job is precarious. This is one of my biggest anxiety triggers. Plus, since I have an anxiety disorder, there have been many times where he’s helped me with planning or sorting out work-related issues and he’s said he’s felt more like my assistant and therapist than my partner. I really do appreciate the help with dealing with work concerns – I’ve thanked him profusely for that over the years – and he’s been really good about taking care of me by giving lots of hugs, cuddles, and back rubs, which I adore and will admit that I haven’t always been so good about returning. But I’ve also been frustrated for a long time now because while he does more housework than he used to (some of his changes are doing a lot of the dishes, all of the laundry, cleaning the toilet and sinks, and baking), I do most of the rest myself. I’ve felt very overwhelmed and there is resentment (which I did tell him about) about how much I feel like I’m responsible for, which also probably hasn’t helped with sex or intimacy.

A few other details: due to his excessive snoring, since we were married he’s slept in the bed in the bedroom and I’ve slept on a futon in the living room. This didn’t help with the sex, especially when we keep different schedules – it’s not uncommon for him to stay up until 2 or 3 and then sleep in until 1 or 2 the next day. He also has a chronic illness that is not life-threatening but is rather difficult to manage.

Overall, he feels like the last four years have been all about his sacrifices – moving here, no sex, no work, no friends, listening to my issues, taking care of me, taking on extra housework, and changing himself to meet my needs, and he’s deeply unhappy and not sure if he can get over the resentment. From my end, it feels like he blames me for everything – the sex, certainly, but also being here, having no friends or job, and generally putting his life on hold.

On top of all this, when he dropped the bomb, he told me that he’d been talking to someone online. They started talking in January, I think. He kept her a secret until he dropped the bomb, but now talks to her online a lot. She’s 18. I don’t think there’s anything deeply inappropriate going on anymore, but this was hard to see for a long time, particularly since the bomb dropping and first mention of her were the same conversation which also coincided with him starting to lose weight, apply for jobs, and spend more time away from me (all of which screamed EA). He said in counseling that she makes him feel worthwhile and that he needs someone on “his side” who supports him.

I’ve done a lot of things wrong in the three months before finding this site. I’m scared it’s too late to fix things. When H. dropped the bomb, he told me the issue was sex and closeness, so I offered sex and more time together. The irony is that when this all went down, I’d finally gotten on new birth control and was actually starting to really feel in the mood again. He said he wasn’t emotionally attracted to me, and so I backed off, and it didn’t take long after that for me to stop touching, hugging, or kissing him, since he’d stopped doing those things and it felt like I was forcing things. I also stopped saying “I love you”. I’ve gotten upset a lot since then, though. I’ve asked what should be changed, and only got “I don’t know” as the answer. We argued about his online friend once every two weeks for probably two months because I was feeling insecure and like she was an issue more than a symptom. We also argued when I pointed out that he wasn’t the only one making sacrifices. When he talked about going away for a week or two to visit family, I told him I was scared that he wouldn’t come back, which made him angry because I was focused on me and he felt guilty. I promised change, which I’ve been working on, but he said in counseling that he’s had a hard time seeing it because of the arguments.

I just got DB a week ago (DR is in the mail), and found this forum two weeks before that, so I have made additional changes recently, particularly around 180s and GAL. I haven’t complained about much of anything. He’s started telling me about his online friend and asking if he can talk to her sometimes when we’re watching TV, and I’ve been saying yes and asking about her in a neutral way. I haven’t talked about the future at all, although he’s mentioned it a few times recently. I initiate conversations much less than I used to, and I’ve stopped being the first one to say hi, whether face-to-face or over IM or text. I’ve stopped asking for any help with work problems, although I have been mentioning some after the fact so he knows I’ve handled things (bad idea?). When he asks to talk with me about something he’s working on, I listen a lot more carefully than I used to, always put down my computer or phone, and ask relevant questions. I’ve been a bit less frugal and paying for more treats without mentioning the budget. I think I’ve acted at least neutral if not supportive of his trip. When he complains about something, I validate his experience. I’ve started a new anxiety program with my IC. I’ve realized that I’ve been staying home a lot because he hasn’t been going out and I feel badly. Now I go out a lot more, see friends, and I’ve taken up some new activities and joined some new groups – yoga, running, cycling, group meditation, and gaming. That said, we do still do some things together like we used to. I run with him when I’m home and I’ll go for a walk with him if he invites me. We still talk and joke around, eat dinner together, and watch TV in the evenings. I’m not sure if these are things that should be changed.

I think I badly messed things up in counseling today, though. He was talking about his resentment about feeling like he was pulling the emotional weight and taking care of me and not getting a lot in return and how he doesn’t know if he can get past that, because everything I do feels forced now, and he doesn’t want to have to tell me what to do. I validated and agreed with his assessment, but when the counselor asked, I also pointed out that I felt like I was doing a lot in different ways – work, finances, and household things. H. got upset at that, and claimed that he’d tried to lighten my burden by applying for jobs and doing more housework. I made the point that neither of us felt like the one was doing enough in certain areas for the other. He was angry about that because they're not the same thing (which I agree with), and now he also feels like I made this all about me again, and that I’m only focused on my needs and trying to save the relationship only because I get something out of it.

I guess I’m not sure what else I should be working on or doing now. I’m certainly going to keep up with the 180s and GAL. He’s going to visit family in a week, which will overlap with his birthday. He said in counseling that it might make him miss me, or that it might clarify the alternatives (which I took to mean ending the relationship). As a result, I’m feeling really, really terrified, particularly after today’s counseling session, that he will feel that life away from me is better because he sees me as the source of many if not all of his problems and hasn’t seen much change yet. I wish I had more time to show him changes before he leaves, or that I’d started them sooner, and I’m not sure what I should be saying or doing in the meantime, particularly in light of today’s screw up. Any suggestions about handling either the trip specifically or the situation in general would be most appreciated.

[Meghan]

Today had been rough so far. After yesterday's double-whammy of MC and IC, I didn't sleep well and find myself wallowing today. I should get out for a run. Luckily I have plans with a friend tonight.

I could use some advice about how DB can work with counselling, if anyone has thoughts. I'm an emotional person to start with, and it's really difficult to not cry during MC sessions, no matter how much I prepare. This doesn't feel like good DB practice.

I'm also not sure what to do when the counsellor asks a direct question. For instance, in yesterday's session (mentioned towards the end of my last post), H. got upset when I was asked about about some of my issues in our marriage, and I mentioned me being the breadwinner and feeling like I had a lot of housework to do. He gets defensive and feels like this puts the focus on me and invalidates his feelings, even though I acknowledged that he's done far more of the emotional caregiving than I have and that I didn't meet his needs. I don't bring this up outside of counselling anymore, but should I avoid talking about it there, too, as part of my DB?

[Meghan]

After yesterday's counselling experience, I'm concerned that I haven't validated H.'s experience of a sexless marriage enough, and that I'm lacking the tools to start fixing it.

I've been reading a lot recently about what a sexless marriage feels like for men, and I feel awful. I didn't realise how deep the rejection goes, or how much sex drives intimacy. I really didn't mean to hurt him, but I did. I failed to take his concerns seriously enough or to understand the full weight of them when he's brought them to me before. I don't know how to convey this to him in words, or even if I should, since I know that changes are more important than just saying something, and I've said it before. I'm torn - I don't want to just let it go and let him feel like I haven't been hearing him because I raised my concerns in counselling yesterday, but I also don't want to keep pushing relationship talks on him, especially since he doesn't talk about it other than in counselling.

The other problem is that I don't know what to actually do. He said in counselling that he could make a list of things that he wants or wanted - sex, back rubs, head scratches, kisses - but that he doesn't want them from me right now. He feels like any efforts I make aren't genuine - he seems them as me trying to fix the marriage because I'm scared and not to make him happy, and is having issues with me changing now rather than years ago. He also feels resentful that I and the counsellor have asked what to change, because he feels like he's put in the work already and shouldn't have to tell me what to do, I should just work to make things better. Where do I start for something like this? What kind of changes can I show him to get the ball rolling on fixing the sexlessness?

[Cristy]

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Cristy Harland
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[Meghan]

Last night I went out with a friend who didn't know about the situation. I told her, and got some good feedback, but I'm still feeling awful.

I wake up every day feeling lost, panicked, sick, and close to tears. I'm trying to hide if from H., and I think I'm succeeding most of the time, but I still don't feel detached and all the awful feelings are still there.

Leading up to his trip, things feel worse and worse. I'm terrified that he'll come back only to tell me that things can't be fixed and that he's leaving. I'm obsessed over the fear that saying something about my issues with the relationship in counseling has made him feel worse about our situation and will have an effect on his choice. I think all the time about what I can do right now that will make him want to work on things, and the fact that I only have really five days to show him anything. After our last counseling session, he said nothing had changed and he didn't have any more hope, even after weeks of DBing, so how will five days change anything before he goes.

I'm keeping up with my DB changes, but I feel like there's more I could or should be doing. Suggestions?

[Meghan]

Another thing I've been wondering about is new or more counseling, particularly if H. comes back and says there's no hope.

I'm reluctant because he's already said he doesn't feel he should have to put in any work. But we keep going to counseling, talking about our concerns, and he gets upset because my crying makes him feel guilty, or he feels angry because even when I validate his concerns, I then get asked about mine by the counselor, and he doesn't seem able to acknowledge any responsibility now or heal my perspective.

Is there any merit in seeking out a solutions based therapy counselor and offering that up as an option when he comes back?

Because he wants me to fix the intimacy and sex issues but doesn't want even basic touching right now, is there any value in finding a sex therapist and going on my own? Or proposing that we go together? Is this the kind of thing that might be seen as taking initiative and responsibility and acknowledging my part in this, or is it pursuing?

[Meghan]

Journaling: I spent more of the morning than I'd like to admit reading the forums here, and found some hopefully helpful threads on sexless marriages. I feel like I'm really starting to understand where he's been coming from and why he's so hurt, but I'm still not sure what to do about.

The logical 180 would be to touch and kiss him, since these are forms of intimacy he's specifically mentioned missing out on and that I didn't give him enough of. They're also things I haven't done in months because he stopped. They felt inauthentic to H., and he perceived them as me getting something from him - giving him a hug was seen as more about what I wanted - giving a hug - than what he wanted - presumably receiving a hug?

But, these are also things that he says he doesn't want from me know. I'm not sure what changes I should be making to show change when the things that would be different and that he claims to have wanted are off the table right now.

[Meghan]

Journaling: Today has been rough. H. woke up in what seemed like a bad mood - quiet and a bit snappy. I had to work today, and I work from home, so I was around for most of it. I tried to at least hide my feelings, and think I succeeded, but I spent most of the afternoon feeling like I was going to cry or throw up.

I find myself having an increasingly hard time letting go of past mistakes. I'm hugely focused on the past - this is partly wishing I had taken his concerns more seriously years ago, and partly the more immediate past. I feel like I really ruined DB again by answering the counselor and telling about my own resentments, and also by mentioning that I was scared about H. going on this trip where he feels like he'll figure out if there's any hope or not.

I really need to GAL more than I am. It's so easy to be here and wallow and make myself miserable, which isn't in the least bit helpful.

[Ben2010]

So from a guys perspective, if youre willing to have sex with him, I think you should try a couple things. No matter how mad I was or not wanting to be around some girl, if she walked around the house or cooking in a thong or something, I would want to. My W has done that to me plenty of times. Sits down on the couch, magically has to pick something up and stays bent over for a minute. Of course she will act like that is not what she is up to, but it is. Maybe taking a shower and walking around naked for a minute might work.

There has to be some sort of go-to move for you to make him want to have sex with you even if he is mad. You said that youre in the mood more now anyway, so it isnt completely for him. I dunno just some thoughts there.

[Meghan]

Thanks for the feedback, Ben.

I've proposed sex verbally, but I haven't really tried much in the way of sustained nakedness or wandering around in my underwear - he's seen me naked briefly when I've gotten out of the shower or when I change, but I guess I've been afraid to do more because I don't know what the reaction will be. I'll give it a try and see how it goes, though - I like your subtle approach.

My concern is that he says he's physically attracted to me and that I look great, but that he's not emotionally attracted because he's so hurt. He's also said he feels like he doesn't want to give me sex now that I want it because it's all about my needs and keeping the relationship rather than taking care of him and I didn't deal with this earlier, which is certainly true. He doesn't want to be with me unless he feels I want it, too - I do want it, but I've hurt him so badly that he can't see or trust that it's real.