Hope and lots of it.

[TornUp]

Copy pasting my intro.
Hello,

I am currently physically separated from my wife and two children. We are not legally separated. She indicated she wanted a divorce back in November. We went to a very inexperienced marriage counselor at the local college because it was much more inexpensive. Lets just say out of this whole process of attempting to get back together that was quite possibly the worst decision ever.

I don't know if I am supposed to type everything out here or not. Or just introduce myself/situation. So I will start with that.

I can call/text my wife. I can talk to my kids. I have them almost every weekend. I am attempting the LRT but with kids it is somewhat difficult. Just prior to reading the LRT in the book I had asked my wife out to coffee while the kids are in school. It went ok. We have plans to do it again this friday.

She wants to be friends. She wants an amicable divorce. I have told here many times that I do not. There have been really heated fights about this. One in December was what lead to me not staying in my home any longer. Without details it got ugly fast and I moved in with my mom.

There is so much I don't know if I should write it all down here or submit a new thread for the sake of brevity/congruity.

I have the books, DB and DR, I havent read DB I am currently on step 6 in DR.

So, Should I just start a thread and begin discussion there? Or should I just let the keys fly here?


Well, now that I read the instructions more thoroughly. I'll start my post and be more thorough I suppose.

So, my wife and I met back in the summer of 2006 while I was traveling for work. We had mutual friends and started hanging out. We really liked each others physical company. We had both been through some pretty lame breakups the year prior and didn't want a relationship at all. This made us hanging out casually very easy, no pressure. We hung out and made out in my motel room that evening. We had sex for the first time the following evening. We continued to hang out that entire week, I asked to be assigned there again the following week. I worked away for a week, then returned again to be with her. We were inseparable. I took her with me on a month long trip out of state. Things went really well we hung out every day and night, we went out every day and night. Like most relationships beginnings they were unexpected and wonderful. The sex was frequent, we talked and opened up about our innermost darkest secrets and professed our love.

Fast forward, We returned, I quit my job the next week on the road and came back to her, we moved together to another state for a job. She became pregnant. So we returned to our home state. No job, no real place to stay except parents places. I proposed on our return. She accepted.

This all happened in a matter of 4 months. We were married that January. We had our daughter that June about a year after we first met. We were still in love. Financial stresses weren't an issue, friends and family weren't and issue. We were on top of the world. The baby was a bit stressful. The sleepless nights were stressful on her, we worked together and things were ok. I found some work here and there we moved into her parents house, then after that became too much we moved into our own apartment.

That January despite using birth control pills we found out my son was on the way. I resented this alot because it was already pretty stressful providing for 3 people. But we worked it out, I started working 2 jobs, we got a bigger place.

While this was going on I began going out to drink more frequently. I was in her hometown so all of my friends consisted of her friends and ex boyfriends. My wife was more active than me sexually in her college years. Not excessively so, but enough to make it uncomfortable for me. I never remained friends with ex's ever. When it was done it was done I would only run into them sporadically. It was over. She however is friends with 9 out of 10 of them as well as guys she just had short term physical relationships with. This frustrated me some, and I put my foot down about a couple of them when they said negative things about me. Or they didnt respect that she was in fact now married to me and the mother of our children. I literally said them or me. She respected that and let them be. But not all of them.

At any rate, we moved again, to a bigger place and I had begun drinking to decompress from work and the stress of family life. I literally worked 2 very stressful jobs with very emotional clients and demanding supervisors for little pay 7 days a week. The marriage was ok, except I was drinking frequently and calling in sick to work etc.

At this point she asked me for a divorce she felt neglected with the children. I was at work every day and going out 2 or 3 times a week. Saying Id be home at midnight and staying until closing time. Spending way too much money. I was angry she wanted a divorce because I was very selfish and didn't even bother to acknowledge her concerns. I told her I would fight her tooth and nail on the divorce, since I work and bring home all the money, I would get custody of the kids, take them to my moms house 200 miles away and she would rarely see them if ever that she would be tearing apart the family by acting so irrationally etc. I was very angry about this but we agreed to work on the marriage and i would work on changing. I didn't. she wanted to go to marriage counseling I kept making excuses not to, it cost money we didnt have, i didnt trust counselors.. whatever excuses i could come up with.

Not shortly thereafter I quit both my jobs for one selling cars, after about a month I got fired for getting a DUII. I went through treatment as required and started a new highly stressful sales job on the phone. I got fired there too. I collected unemployment for a while. Then we moved to the opposite side of the state for a new job.

I worked at that job for a couple years, got promoted a couple of times, things were ok. I began hanging out with old friends I hadnt seen in a long time. These were my old high school friends I used to party with. So I continued doing what I had been doing before only now I wouldnt drink and drive I would stay over if I had been drinking. This became more and more frequent I began going to strip clubs with them.

My wife found out about the strip clubs by reviewing my bank statement. I became angry about this and felt it was an invasion of my privacy etc. I promised I wouldnt do it again. I did. She found out about it. She felt awful but told herself and me it was like an addiction. Sort of justifying my behavior.

I kept drinking, I would call in sick to work hung over. I would call in sick from my friends house. I lied to her many many times. Id lie about where I was what I was doing etc.

I never once cheated on her despite a few opportunities to over the years. I never once hit her, we did have some yelling arguments. She feels that the strip clubs were cheating. Despite my best efforts to argue it isnt cheating she doesn't accept that. Her previous fiancé started going to strip clubs prior to cheating on her.

Things came to a head, she asked again for a divorce. Being the jerk I am/was I quickly said.. fine.. Im not going to be threatened with divorce every time she gets upset about something that we can easily talk out. I took the kids to my moms house about 50 miles from our new place. The following morning she called, we cried on the phone together and decided we would work it out.

I eventually quit that job, then found another. got fired from it. Then took a job at my local bar/restaurant delivering food until I found something else. This basically set me up to be at the bar 4 nights a week. Things werent perfect at home but we still were able to do family things during the day and barely make ends meet.

During this year of time she had 3 family members die. Her dad, her grandpa and her other grandma. She received a large inheritance from her dad that she used to pay off the remainder of her student loans. She recieved another inheritance when her grandma died. She bought a car, got her own phone in her own name and basically planned the divorce out. She asked me to come along to the car lot because i had sold cars and she wanted me to negotiate or something. i never had an opportunity to. i watched her spend 2500 over blue book on her vehicle. she got an android phone even though i wanted her to get an iphone. she was basically rubbing my face in it. i was really annoyed because she had completely stopped listening to me.

at any rate.. fast forward.. she stopped cooking around the house started going out to restaurants all the time. we took a trip to orange county, ca to see her other grandma. that was a fun week. all of us together, her mom her grandma her uncles id never met etc.. the beach.. lots of fun.

we then booked a trip to hawaii for the winter, (this took place in january this year we will get there) she was born there i spent a lot of time in my childhood there. my mom had a time share she couldnt use this year. so my wife bought plane tickets and we had our trip settled.

Things were ok, not perfect, I was still out drinking, she was still nagging me at home. I wasnt helping with household chores at all or really doing much with the kids. Sex was becoming less and less frequent.

She spontaneously decided to take a trip to new mexico on a solo trip. she doesnt have any friends or family there. she just booked it and went. so i was home with the kids confused. she came back.. it was great for her etc..

About a week later she took a trip to her home town, i wanted to go too, told her i would check with my work about taking some time off. that weekend she told me she was leaving the following morning for her home town. telling me she was going to stay with her girlfriend or get a motel room. she stayed one night at her girlfriends house, then stayed at one of her guy friends houses. one she used to have a sexual relationship with. Now.. i need to clarify, I am friends with him and his brother too. we have a lot of mutual friends as well. I really do not believe she had an affair with the guy. But its not without its stress on the relationship. I was upset at first but decided ok.. going apeshit about this isnt going to fix anything so i just sucked it up and said.. well she saved a couple hundred on a motel room. when we would visit just the two of us.. we would frequently stay at his house too.. it wasnt too out of the norm.. just.. inappropriate without me being present.

so about a month after that happened. i was tired of being nagged and complained at.. and asked her for a divorce. that we should stop pretending.. this is miserable. the sex had pretty much stopped and when we did have it.. it was mechanical, "lets get this over with" kind of sex.

She told me that she wanted to work on things. I lit up from ear to ear and literally said.. hell yeah.. thats awesome.. i was elated.. i wanted things to be better too. it sucked.

So we talked about marriage counselors. it never really happened. about a month went by. she took the kids to the coast for the weekend while i stayed back and worked. on short notice again.

she came back and told me she wanted a divorce. i was dumbfounded.. i thought she wanted to work things out. she says she was afraid at how i would react and was afraid i would take the kids again. so at first.. i was like.. ok... does this mean im single now.. she said "you can go mess around if you like" i didnt know how to take it.. but i did know it really hurt her that i had taken the kids away previously.. i assumed this would all blow over. she was just upset about me going out and drinking.. just another bump in the road of marriage.

She wouldnt cuddle me on the couch. she wouldnt have sex with me.. etc.. i finally realized she was completely serious this time. and now she had money behind her and i was completely broke. all that lame controlling macho crap i had done previously had backfired on me in a big way.

I begged, i pleaded, I cried. I yelled, i picked fights with her. we argued. nothing i could say or do would sway her decision it was set in stone. we made it a point not to involve the kids in any of this until it was the right time. to this day the kids only know that i live at grandmas house.

So thanksgiving came, she wasnt sure if she should come to my moms house. i insisted she should with the kids too. it came and went. it was fine. then more begging and pleading at home on my part, more insistence that she wanted a divorce and her decision was final. more pleading.. more depression etc.. I asked her to go to marriage counseling. on the premise that we had both spent a lot of money being apart from each other, its only fair that we spend some money trying to fix things. she agreed.

We went to the counselor at a local college because it was cheaper. grad students under supervision do all the therapy. So we sat down, and i was asked why i wanted to stay married. I explained that i felt used, that i was angry, why i was angry, that she was the mother of my children, that i wanted to work things out and i felt it was really [censored] up for her to ditch our family instead of working on things. because we had never worked on things before.. we just ignored them and let them blow over until mediocrity came back. the counselor then interupted me and said "that whole time you didnt say anything about her" and then asked my wife what she wanted my wife promptly said "i want a divorce" so the counselor said well this doesnt work unless both people are into it so we should probably focuse on breakup counseling. i was pissed. really pissed. i wasnt yelling but my voice was audibly louder. we set up an apointment for the following week.

we fought in the car on the way back to pick up my son from day care. we fought more when we got home. then things were ok at home.. sort of.. we sort of got along. we went again the next week. we were split up this time, i went in first, my wife waited in the waiting room. everything i said in that room was heard in the waiting room. my wife heard everything. i was speaking in confidence. i found out after the session. we had like one fight that week, returned the next week and informed them of what had happened. they appologized profusely.. but.. well.. it didnt help at that point. i felt defeated and setup.. i admitted that i had to now start working on rebuilding our friendship because the marriage is over i couldnt repair it alone. we told the counselor about our trip to hawaii, the college broke for winter break. we didnt go back again.

we fought again off and on, i finally realized there wasnt alot i could do. i threatened to kill myself. she called my bluff basically called my mom saying she couldnt handle it with me anymore and ive been living at my moms since.

Christmas was just after this. she allowed me to come stay the night on the couch so i could be there for the kids on christmas morning. she came to my moms house on christmas.. it went well.. considering.

2 weeks after christmas we went to hawaii. she asked for a seperate trundle bed to sleep on, i said.. look we can just be awesome and have a good time, she doesnt need to worry about anything happening in the bed she doesnt want to happen.

i went on a sailing trip for my birthday, she stayed at the hotel. the next day we went to waimea canyon. i asked my wife to take a photo of us together. things had been going ok when we were around each other. she refused. i had realized she had removed me from facebook after i moved to my moms house. i was upset but i didnt want to make a public scene. I felt like she was deleting me from her life, i asked her if her friends even knew we were there together.. it turns out she was just self conscious about the photo itself. i really over reacted.

so i walked away.. went back to the car. she got in the car.. we got into a fight of sorts.. i begged i pleaded.. i yelled.. i accused.. everything i could come up with.. i cried.. etc.. we eventually switched seats because she was afraid i would pull off the road into the canyon or something.. i kept at it from the passenger seat for a while. we were both really upset and drove back to the resort in silence after we both said we would get the next flight home. when we got back i asked if we could just take a time out.. and regroup in a couple hours so we didnt ruin the whole trip.

i walked around the resort, walked the beach.. etc.. calmed down.. called my mom.. told her what had happened. then eventually went back to the room, asked the wife if she wanted to get something to eat. she asked if i wanted her to stay. i did. the rest of the trip was pretty cool. we got along.. it was awkward a bit.. but we saw the sites and went all over the place doing cool stuff. i had a pretty good time. she seemed to as well. we talked about everything but the relationship. it was pretty much all good. no arguments.. all was well, except we werent together we were just there together. we went swimming, and all kinds of other stuff together every day.

so we flew back, and since we had been sleeping in the same bed. i asked when we got back if i could sleep next to her.. she refused. i just accepted it and slept on the couch.

since then.. i came across divorce busters.. and others. i paid for an ebook that was garbage. it basically says 30 days go dark, work on yourself. but it had a good intro video and was considerably cheaper than coaching packages offered here and other places. total waste of 40 bucks, this forums stickies has more info than that entire ebook.

I watched some videos on the subject, read all kinds of things on reconciliation, and decided i wasnt going to give up. I had quit smoking after 20 years. I had stopped drinking to excess during this whole situation since december. those are big changes for me. huge in fact. i did them for her to show her i could change. Ive kept them up for the most part. I havent smoked in over 2 months now. I go to the gym semi regularly. ive been going to counseling for myself on a weekly basis.

i call most nights to talk to the kids. sometimes i used this as an excuse to talk to my wife. ive had them all but one weekend since christmas. and they stayed with my mom while we were in hawaii.

i was going to move in with my uncle near my kids so i could work and be there for my wife if she needed me. as soon as i entered my uncle was drunk and wanted to tell me how things were.. he was pissed and started yelling at me.. told me he had to pamper my ass.. etc.. i tried to stop him saying .. hey if i want to talk about any of it.. ill ask, if he wants to talk about any of it just ask.. but right now.. i dont want to talk about it. i just wanted to go to bed. he kept harping on me.. i grabbed my things and left. i called my wife told her what had happened and crashed on the couch. she later politely asked me to leave. so i did.

now ive been at my moms house, im looking for work, my wife has said she wants to move to where her mom is when school gets out this summer about 75 miles south of my moms house.
ive interviewed for work there, ive interviewed elsewhere.. im getting "we will let you know" my confidence is shot. i fake it pretty well.. but its just not there. i almost always land jobs right on the interview. now im not. i dont know what to do about that. my stepdad is pressuring me to get up off my ass.. and i am. its just i can only drive to an interview if i have an interview to go to. ive been applying for work in industries i havent worked.. getting desperate.. im an adult i shouldnt live at my moms house.

at any rate.... here we are.. the weekend before last it snowed. i asked my wife if i could come over for the weekend and play in the snow with the kids.. (it snows about once every 5 years here its a big deal) so i stayed up there for the weekend.. i helped out around the house.. took out the trash, cooked food, woke up with the kids.. did some laundry, cleaned out my dresser, my closet with my stuff. etc.. made good use of my time while we were snowed in. i cleaned out some of the garage. thats an emotional roller coaster.. lots of memories in there. old trips.. etc. i let her know it was tough going through stuff.

she went through stuff with me.. she had a much better time with it all. old memories and what not.. oh.. ihavent seen that forever etc...

last week i asked her to have coffee with me while the kids were in school before i went to counseling. she did, we talked a bit, it started out with me just keeping my trap shut and waiting for her to talk. she was angry about how i had called my daughter stupid at one point a while back. we talked about other things.. namely some health problems shes dealing with. she has hypothyroid.. which manifests in all kinds of weird ways and is hard to diagnose.. she is skeptical about me having a sudden interest in it and her well being. i just didnt believe her before because i thought she was just lazy.. it turns out.. all of her symptoms are real symptoms of hypothyroidism. not having energy is extremely common among being irritable and angry frequently lack of libido.. and so on .. i have egg all over my face.. we were dealing with all of this and didnt know it at all. now we know.. and it hurts bad. shes scared.. and shes basically alone with it all. but it was a good talk overall. i broke it off early so as not to take a dark turn and end up in an argument or fight. we went through both kids valentines day parties.. i didnt get her flowers i bought "my daughter flowers" that was ok.. then after school i asked if i could stay over on sunday night before presidents day.. so we could watch walking dead together like we used to and take the kids to do something on presidents day. she said no. i was a little angry.. so i stepped outside.. called my mom.. talked to her a bit.. came back in .. asked to talk to the wife. told her i was angry about the situation.. and thats all i wanted to talk about.. i was about to leave.

she said she wanted to file paperwork soon. shes said this before.. but so far i havent seen any paperwork. shes says shes afraid about how ill react when it shows up. i told her again.. for the umpteeth time now that i dont want a divorce. we had talked previously about doing the parenting class regardless of the paperwork to help out the kids with the situation as its taking a toll on them. theyre pretty much still in the dark. but it turns out.. you have to file to do that class. so.. thats on the back burner currently. but i stopped that conversation early before it became a fight or whatever.. left it on a good note.. and came back to my moms house.

the apartment lease is up in march so we needed to resign a new lease or go month to month, my wife didnt want me on the new documents, and i signed off not realizing what that would do. but now.. i cant be at the apartment if she doesnt want me there, whereas previously i could come and go as i pleased.

so now 95% of my stuff is out of the house. i finally found db and dr. ive been trying to reconnect previously.. we dont really fight now when we talk and its been that way for a few weeks.

whats working is letting her talk when we talk, doing more listening. we can talk about television shows we watch.

im scared, pretty emotional.. im trying the LRT, the kids called me last night which was pretty awesome.. its not me calling them every time now. Tomorrow i go up for the science fair, we're going out for coffee friday morning before i go to counseling and pick up the kids for the weekend.

i have a solutions journal.. im scared. im angry. im hurt. im devastated. i feel so incredibly guilty for all the things i did wrong. I am changing to make my life better. Im trying to be patient. my wife and i can talk.. which is huge.. but we just cant talk about.. the relationship openly.. or resolving anything about it.

A few things she has indicated over the various talks/arguments/fights we've had is she doesnt trust me anymore, its too little too late, that she needs stability. and that she wants to file paperwork asap, she feels like its something she absolutely needs to get done so she can move on with her life etc.. She has told me she is being pretty cold because she feels like if she is nice to me that i will take that as a sign of possible reconciliation. She pointed out i was doing a 180, when i had only read about it briefly but i had decided to have a more positive mental attitude overall because the guilt and depression and pain were so much to bear i had to do something else.

So here I am.. thats where im at. I have done the goals and rewritten them. im making little steps there is progress. we have laughed a few times together recently which hasnt happened in a while.

so now that ive done everything someone shouldnt do when they want to reconcile. im hoping and praying that i can do everything i can to reconcile now. I love her and many things about her. she isnt perfect neither am i, i want our family back together and im ready to put in the work to put it all together. im changing things i dont like about myself, im getting help.. i know this is alot.. ive written a good amount of stuff here. ive been waiting until i had the time to type it all out..

and yeah.. thanks for reading. i realized despite being pretty thorough ive left out some stuff too. so if you have any questions just let me know.

[TornUp]

So this morning went pretty well. We met up at her place while the kids were in school, then went out for coffee. We talked and joked around a bit it was alright. I made a conscious effort to let her talk, and guide the conversation without talking about myself too much. I feel I could improve in that regard but it all went well.

Then I went to my counseling session that went better than the previous few sessions. It actually went significantly better. So I was doing pretty well there.

I got back, hung out with my son for a bit while my wife took a nap on the couch. We played some video games and waited for my daughters school bus. Then we packed them up and now we're at my moms house for the weekend.

So far so good.

My mom apparently wants to talk to my wife and I've kind of had her hold off on this for a while. My mom indicated to me that she wanted to talk to her again, so i told my wife to call my mom sometime, as my mom wanted to talk to her. So theyre going to hang out sometime next week.

Now a while ago I wanted my mom to basically go in as a puppet and do my bidding, talk to her on my behalf, convince my wife that divorce isnt the right way to go.. etc.. but now.. after doing alot of reading, soul searching, crying, talking, listening.. etc.. I told her to just go talk to her, do alot of listening and talk about whatever they want but please don't put any pressure on her.

I dont know. Im not sure my mom getting involved is such a good idea or not. but my mom and my wife get along pretty well. so... with all the hope ive got i hope it works out well.

[TornUp]

New 180 added.

She got a cat. She already has a cat. Its FIV positive.. basically cat aids.. So it cannot be around other cats unless they're FIV as well.

Ordinarily I would've told her shes dumb for making such a shitty decision. She has a habit of adopting pets and returning them. Her mother and sister are both pet hoarders. (they run a puppy mill out of their house its disgusting and the reason my mother in law cannot have my children over and a major reason why we moved across the state so we could have family around them)

She returned a dog that cost like 500 bucks plus supplies and food and I had to take out.. because she didnt realize you cant leave a dog in the car when you run into a store to grab a quick drink.

She already has a cat that requires a lot of attention.. very needy cat. not very independent at all.

anyhow.. i just supported her, said.. thats awesome.. now the other cat will have a friend!

=)

[TornUp]

update, so i had a great time with the kids this weekend. I messaged my wife several times via facebook.. which i seldom ever did at all... a little out of the ordinary for me. i just sent her photos of the kids playing/helping in the garden, then at the kids museum we went to doing fun stuff.

i dont know.. shes been responsive.. but distant. not negative.. but not exactly welcoming.. still kind of tip toeing.. but certainly a massive step in a positive direction.

so i took the kids home.. hung out for a bit.. chit chatted about some logistical stuff this week.. like father daughter dance next week. her upcoming medical appointments etc.. and then things kind of died out... i started to feel awkward and uncomfortable, so i gave the kids hugs and said good bye.

on the drive home i realized i didnt have anything to do at all for the entire evening. i mean i could do laundry.. or go to the gym.. so i decided to push my luck a little bit, I called my wife and asked her if she wanted to go out and do something. She suggested bowling. So we took the kids bowling, had a great time.. then went out for dinner at our favorite restaurant. this was awesome! i kept my cool. but i was lit up like a christmas tree. this never ever ever would have happened even a couple weeks ago.

So after getting back we talked briefly about her installing/playing the scrabble game with me on her phone.. because ive been having fun with it. she indicated she tried to get me to play it before but i cold shouldered her. i kind of shrugged and said.. yeah.. ive made a lot of jerk moves. she shrugged and said .... yeah.. and that was that.. i hugged the kids and said good bye.

this is big progress.. lots of goal indicators flying. we're talking, we're doing stuff together.. albeit with the kids.. we're having a good time. we're sort of agreeing to play a game together. theyre all little things.. but its a lot different than it has been.

i guess she had spoken to my mom, theyre going to go out on wednesday and talk a bit. i told my mom.. look i have all kinds of things for you to read, all kinds of things for you to say.. but at the end of the day.. i dont want you to strain any relationship you have with her. just listen, say whatever you want. do your thing.. if it comes across as contrived it hurts everyone.

:::fingers crossed::: :::positive mental attitude:::

[TornUp]

3 steps forward 2 steps back.

My wife asked for space again tonight. I had been messaging her on Facebook because i thought things were going well enough to continue pursuing.

We had a long talk about everything. She is afraid I will act again like i did during the marriage and how i acted when she insisted on divorce. She doesnt trust me. Shes afraid of me. She really wants a divorce and shes ready to start pushing paperwork but she is afraid of how i will respond.

I don't know what I should do. I really opened up to her alot when we talked on the phone. I told her about the aa meetings ive been going to, the counseling. what ive been talking about at the counseling sessions.

I knew better than to follow the steps of the LRT. Im going to follow them to a T now. I need to GAL. I feel awful.

Im really disappointed in myself right now. =/

[AnotherStander]

Wow, well there’s a lot there to go through! First, I do not get the sense that you’ve truly owned up to what you did wrong in the M, and I’ve got to say that you’ve done a LOT wrong. Typically in a WAS situation there were some minor things the LBS did wrong and a lot of it is just something the WAS is going through, but I think in your case you forced your W out through your actions. I think it’s important to bring this to your attention because you have got to change SUBSTANTIALLY if there’s to be any hope for your M. So let’s start with a few of your comments:

“She became pregnant. So we returned to our home state. No job, no real place to stay except parents places. I proposed on our return. She accepted.”

Women want financial stability and they want a place of their own. Living with her parents with no job was setting yourself up for failure from the very beginning.

“That January despite using birth control pills we found out my son was on the way. I resented this alot because it was already pretty stressful providing for 3 people.”

YOU resented it? Do you even care what your W thought about it? Maybe she wasn’t too thrilled either.

“While this was going on I began going out to drink more frequently.”

“I had begun drinking to decompress from work and the stress of family life.”

“The marriage was ok, except I was drinking frequently and calling in sick to work etc.”

“after about a month I got fired for getting a DUII”

“So I continued doing what I had been doing before only now I wouldnt drink and drive I would stay over if I had been drinking.”

“I kept drinking, I would call in sick to work hung over. I would call in sick from my friends house.”

Clearly alcohol abuse is a big problem with you, and I promise it was a big factor in the failing of your M. What are you doing about it? You do understand that when you’re calling in sick to work and having to spend the night elsewhere frequently because you’re too far gone to drive then you are very likely an alcoholic? Those are big red warning flags of alcoholism.

“I told her I would fight her tooth and nail on the divorce, since I work and bring home all the money, I would get custody of the kids, take them to my moms house 200 miles away and she would rarely see them if ever that she would be tearing apart the family by acting so irrationally etc.”

That’s emotionally abusive behavior.

“My wife found out about the strip clubs by reviewing my bank statement. I became angry about this and felt it was an invasion of my privacy etc.”

Invasion of your privacy????? What about sneaking around going out to strip clubs when your W has ALREADY told you that you’re spending too much money? Do you see who is in the wrong here?

“I never once cheated on her despite a few opportunities to over the years.”

Sure you did, going to strip clubs without her knowledge when you KNEW she wouldn’t approve was a violation of her trust and faithfulness. THAT is CHEATING.

“I never once hit her, we did have some yelling arguments.”

Hitting is physical abuse. You have been mentally and emotionally abusive to your W through your reckless behavior, and now you want to justify it by saying you never hit her. The lack of physical abuse in no way excuses other types of abuse.

“She feels that the strip clubs were cheating. Despite my best efforts to argue it isnt cheating she doesn't accept that.”

She is right, you are wrong.

“Being the jerk I am/was I quickly said.. fine.. Im not going to be threatened with divorce every time she gets upset about something that we can easily talk out.”

Do you think you can “easily talk out” physical and emotional abuse and alcohol problems as serious as yours? Plus your complete inability to hold down a job for any length of time. I really don’t think you see the seriousness of this.

“she got an android phone even though i wanted her to get an iphone. she was basically rubbing my face in it.”

Was she? Or was she finally doing what SHE wanted to do and not letting you control and manipulate her anymore?

“Things were ok, not perfect, I was still out drinking, she was still nagging me at home. I wasnt helping with household chores at all or really doing much with the kids. Sex was becoming less and less frequent.”

Things were NOT OK. I mean seriously, read that line! How can you say things were OK and then follow it up with the rest of that? You’ve got to take yourself out of denial and start facing the reality of what you’ve done!

“so about a month after that happened. i was tired of being nagged and complained at.. and asked her for a divorce.”

Her “nagging” was her attempt to wake you up before it was too late.

“i was dumbfounded.. i thought she wanted to work things out.”

She DID, but you by your own admission did NOTHING but keep drinking, keep checking out of the M, and keep waiting for HER to change her mind. But why would she? What reason have you EVER given her to want back in the M?

“So we sat down, and i was asked why i wanted to stay married. I explained that i felt used, that i was angry, why i was angry, that she was the mother of my children, that i wanted to work things out and i felt it was really [censored] up for her to ditch our family instead of working on things.”

I’m going to stop with your quotes here because I think the above is the real crux of your problem. YOU are in complete and total DENIAL of what YOU have done wrong. Based on your entire post, your W actually sounds like a good person. She tried over and over again to make it work with you. You on the other hand did NOTHING to change the many terrible things you have done in the M! She will never come back until YOU fix YOU. And you have a LOT of work to do. Start by reading DR, and start attending Alcoholics Anonymous ASAP. Because this:

“had stopped drinking to excess during this whole situation since December”

That is a very dangerous statement. You stopped drinking to “excess”? I think with your track history you need to stop drinking PERIOD. If you’re not willing to do that to save yourself and perhaps your M, then you might as well go file for D yourself. You also need to get a job ASAP. Why would she be attracted to a guy that has no job, lives with his mom and drinks (but not to “excess”, ha) You’ve got to quit sponging off of others and take control of your life. Get a job, get a place to live, support your kids emotionally and FINANCIALLY, quit drinking, go to AA, keep going to IC. Make yourself into the spouse only a fool would leave, then maybe your W might be attracted back to you again. She doesn’t want to go back to the old M and you shouldn’t either. Your goal is to build a NEW relationship with her.

In the meantime, quit arguing with her about the D. You can’t stop it and fighting it is just going to create more resentment. Read Sandi2's 37 Rules every day and live those rules. Good luck.

[TornUp]

Thanks for your input, I've been going to meetings in fact I'm waiting in the parking lot for one right now. There's quite a bit of misunderstanding in your quoted replies but that's really my fault. I initially just kind of wrote everything down to get it all in one place. I will clarify some when I get some more time available. Some of that should clear things up for you.

[TornUp]

So, I figured I would update a bit. Been sober for 45 days. Doing regular daily meetings, participating a lot. Probably going to have a job starting on Tuesday. Nothing is certain until its certain.

We coordinate/talk frequently.. but as far as talking about anything relationship wise.. its very rare. It is mostly positive when we do. She is noticing changes and is a bit skeptical, especially when I go a bit over the top. Almost all communication is logistics related, recently its also become financial as its tax time. We get to pay some pretty hefty taxes this year. In short, I believe I handled this issue very well, I am a bit peeved that I get almost all the financial burden of this but if that is what it takes. I am willing. Small price to pay to return to my family in the grander scheme of things.

Last week she took the kids on a road trip to see some friends and family across the state. i was tasked with going to their home to feed the cat and empty the litter box. mother in law was to visit upon their return. i left flowers for the mother in law. Upon return I was thanked for them by my wife. =)

Today we made plans to watch my younger brother perform in a play together next weekend.. not like an official date.. but we are having my mother watch the kids.

Things are improving slowly and ever slightly. I could certainly be in denial but a month ago none of this would have happened. She wouldn't have agreed to go along with me alone to anything.

I've found the counseling sessions to be mostly useless as Alcoholics Anonymous affords me much better opportunities to learn much more about myself and learn from others. The bonus being its free. The rewards are priceless frequent and numerous.

So, I'm hoping and praying a lot. I'm doing a lot of actions as well. I honestly don't know if everything will get fixed. I try to maintain a positive attitude towards everything and spend less time focusing on the situation to let it handle itself.

[TornUp]

update, while cleaning out the garage and moving a lot of tools into storage for my dad she started getting upset with me... then i got upset with her... then it became.. come on lets get back together... why why not.. etc.... begging and pleading...

i got told very specifically that even if i win the nobel prize she would never come back. i told her that i had been going to counseling and aa just for her.. how awesome she is etc.. she told me she doesnt really hate me.. that she likes me.. she just cant trust me anymore.. and doesnt want the marriage.. that shes had friends whos husbands had just moved on and theyre doing just fine...

(funny how ive never heard of these friends and have no idea who they are, as none of our mutual friends are in marriages.. and most of her friends cannot even hold down a relationship at all)

so... yesterday i finished moving stuff out of the garage.. we had dinner together with the kids... it all went smoothly.

i was feeling pretty shitty and ended up making an appointment to see a psychologist/therapist/counselor. did a mental health evaluation last night. and then i have the kids for the rest of the weekend.

i dont really know what to do at this point... im supposed to be giving her space but also working on improving the relationship. i want to be really nice to her... but i also want to be really mean at the same time. im still hurt and angry.. but i have actually changed my perspective on things a lot. im supposed to let go..

i dont know how to just let go.. i want to believe that if i do something different or try harder or say the right thing.. that the right thing will happen.. but i seem to be doing nothing right..

im at the point and i shared this with a few other people. that.. I'm not all that interested in changing anything if it doesnt net me the results i want.. like if i eat right and go to the gym.. ill see physical results that i want.. with this relationship/reconciliation.. i may never see the results i want. im just supposed to accept things and detach.

its frustrating.. and maddening.

[MrBond]

"i told her that i had been going to counseling and aa just for her"

Wrong. You're supposed to be doing it for yourself.

"I'm not all that interested in changing anything if it doesnt net me the results i want."

Then you're going to fail. Simple as that. You're only changing to trick her into coming back. Then once she comes back you're going back to acting the way you always have when she left because your changes weren't real.

Tell me, would you like to be with someone like that? Why would she?