I'm in, wife's out

[trc2009]

Thank you all in advance for anything you can help me with.

My wife and I have been married for 4 1/2 years, been together 6 years. My wife got pregnant with our son after only six months of dating. I was 27, she was 21. So there was a pretty distinct age difference at first (although as you get older it seems to come together).

We got married 6 months after our son was born. When my son was about 1-year old, my wife was unhappy with her job. We talked about her staying home with him and maybe babysitting some friends kids because it would be much more practical than paying a fortune for daycare and for her to get out of a job she was unhappy with.

Fast forward a year after that and she get pregnant with our daughter. They are now 5 & 2. Now, my wife was very independent before we met. She really wasn't one to settle down and wasn't sure if she ever wanted kids. But when she got pregnant with our son, it made the decision for her. That being said, she's a very good mother and I'm a very good father.

It seemed after my wife had our daughter, she became very distant & cold. Generally not very happy. I don't know if it was postpartum, her lack of self since she was letting me take care of her and she had no career, or maybe something else. But things changed in 2012. We still had sex regularly (albiet not as often....maybe 1-2 times week).

Things started to get petty. By that, it seemed like we bickered a lot. Both of us constantly were annoyed with each other. We didn't fight much, but when we did it was a blowup.

In early January, she finally sat down and said she wasn't happy, has had one foot out the door, and if things didn't get better it would probably lead to divorce.

Well, for about the next four weeks, I did EVERYTHING wrong. I got suspicious. Thought maybe there was something else. I flat out checked our phone records, internet history, etc. There were a few contacts that bothered me and I called her out on it. Well, it was really nothing and I was wrong. But of course it made her mad and thought that I was invading her privacy. I had never done anything like that before in our marriage. But to her, it was a violation of our trust. She was already one foot out the door and with this she doesn't believe she can really trust me again. Obviously there were things that happened over the last couple of years I did wrong too that were violations of trust.

But there was no cheating. I did not hit her (although I did throw something at a wall during one of our fights). And we've never really had any "money" issues that were hidden from her. THREE THINGS IMO THAT ARE HARD TO OVERCOME.

But in January, we fought constantly. Mainly because of my insecurity and fear that she was going to leave the marriage. Finally, we both got tired of it and in late-January we decided we needed to separate to cool off and see how we felt.

She started going to an individual counselor about some of her issues (mainly her inability of not being about to get past things that I have said and done. She holds onto grudges forever. There are other personal things as well that I'm not comfortable sharing.). But she suggested we see a marriage counselor. That was on Friday of last week.

I felt like this was a very appropriate step because after a month of endless fighting, it really slowed down in the two weeks we were separated. The therapist asked me if I wanted to work on our marriage. With little hesitation I said yes. I absolutely wanted to. She asked the same thing to my wife. She was very slow at answering and kind of danced around it a little bit. Almost like she was afraid to say what she felt. She said she'd like to work on our marriage, but didn't think it would make any difference how she felt about me. She said she didn't realize how happy should we be without me being around her 24/7. It was sense of independence she hasn't felt since before we first met. Crushing to hear for sure.

And now here were are. A little over two weeks separated, I want our marriage to be mended badly, she wants out.

Now, I've been staying at my parents the last couple of weeks and she's been staying at home with the kids (since she's a stay-at-home-mom). Me going home right now would probably be bad. We talked after the marriage counselor about how we were going to do this going forward because I do not want to live with my parents for 6-12 months or however long we are separated.

She finally broke down and said maybe it would be easier if she got a job (which she absolutely needs to do to get her sense of self back). But she then said that she thinks she should just get her own place. That way we can do a true shared custody arrangement with the kids (2-2-3 or something like that) instead of me coming over every night to see them and then having to leave to sleep somewhere else.

I can't ask her to not get her own place if she feels like that's what she needs. But I will fully admit that I've been the pursuer over the last 6 weeks or so.

That's when I stumbled on this amazing site. So much of the information here is priceless. I HAVE to get out of the pattern I've been in over the last 6 weeks. I do want my marriage to work. I still love my wife (although I'm currently incredibly annoyed with her attitude toward me and our marriage). She hasn't filed for divorce. I'm not sure that's imminent. Maybe she's just waiting to get out from under me financially so she can file. I have no idea. If it weren't for the kids, I think she would have already said she wants a divorce. But I'm certain there's a large part of her that would like us to work it out for the kids. Obviously for the long-term we can't stay together just for the kids, but it's something we can build from.

[trc2009]

Now that I've put that essay out there, there are a few things that I am working on. I've read all of Sandi2's 37 rules.....multiple times. I was amazed at how I was doing the complete opposite of those rules prior to reading them.

I do have a few questions.

1. My wife says "I have to get out of the house and I have to get away from you." Yet she gets very defensive when I ask her if she wants a divorce. I've tried not to ask that question anymore and since our MC session, I quit asking. It's just very confusing. It's almost like she wants a divorce but doesn't want to say it until she's stable and on her own two feet.

2. I've come to the realization that she's probably a WAS. Everything I read about WAS fits her perfectly. After 6-weeks of reading online and trying to make sense of everything, reading that was a eye-popping revelation. Is disengaging at this point the best thing to do? Obviously I have to start taking care of myself regardless of the outcome.

3. It would be so easy for me to say "you want out? You want your own place? Then go." And then just come home. I'm afraid given the fragile state of things, that would just push her completely over the edge. She already says she has trust issues with me (again, I've never cheated and have never hit her. But I have lost my temper a few times in the past. Not my proudest moments because you should never lose your temper but we are where we are). She says things like "I don't know you anymore." "I don't feel like I can ever trust you again," etc. Are those things normal and is it even worth trying?

[Accuray]

Trc2009, sorry you find yourself here. Generally it's not a good idea to move out of your house in these situations. You should consult with a lawyer to determine what your best course of action should be to protect your rights just in case she does file. In some states the spouse who stays in the house can claim abandonment and use that to their advantage in divorce and custody proceedings.

Other than that, yes, you should disengage and give her space. She's asking you very specifically for space right now, but you are hesitant to give it to her because you're afraid if you do, she won't come back.

The reverse is actually true -- if you continue to pursue and try to control things, you will drive her farther and farther away.

Get the "Divorce Remedy" book and read it. The shortest path to reconciliation for you is moving the opposite direction and giving her MORE space than she is asking for.

Acc

[trc2009]

Thanks Accuray! I agree that me leaving the house probably wasn't the best thing. But I kind of feel that I can't just go back and say "I'm coming home" because that will push her away. I really wish I would have found this site before we made that huge decision but here we are.

I read Rule 30 and it really stood out to me. "Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior."

She's had a habit the last six weeks of speaking out of both sides of her mouth. We went to the MC and she more or less seemed like she was just going through the motions. While there I was pretty open and she was reserved. The therapist asked her if we wanted to schedule a follow-up appointment. She said we can but didn't think it would make a difference. To me, that was her saying it's over. We got home and talked for a while after the appointment and I asked her why she didn't want to go back to the MC. She said that she never said that and we told the MC that we'd call her if we wanted to see her again.

Everything with her is very open-ended like that and it's so, so confusing.

In one breath she'll say she's as happy as she's been since before we met. And then she'll sit there and stare into space for 10 minutes and when she does speak, it's in a very pessimistic tone. I question whether or not she really is happy or if that's just her defense mechanism kicking in right now. Acting like she's really happy to justify her thoughts of wanting out of or marriage.

Just so, so confusing. I'm going to get the Divorce Remedy book. It's really hard because I do see her almost every day. And I know she's anxious when I'm around her. So am I around her. We won't even risk going to the grocery store together in fear that some little thing will trigger an argument.

[ericmsant2]

I am sorry you find yourself here.

I agree with Accuray, you should not have left the house. Personally, I would contact the therapist and make another appt. At that appt I would suggest that you agree to move back in.

Further, I would agree with your W that she needs to move out. You can suggest that she may want to consider finding a job first but if she wants to leave, then I would let her.

May i ask what state you live in?

Keep posting.

[trc2009]

Just to give a background on the separation.

I agreed to stay somewhere else at nights. During the day, I come and go as I please because my kids are there. I'm there nearly every day for several hours a day. I'm just sleeping elsewhere.

Usually 1-3 nights/week, I stay at the house with the kids and she stays with family. She literally still does my laundry every day. We occassionally eat dinner.

But most of our fights were happening AFTER the kids went to bed and we didn't want to put ourselves in positions where we were fighting for the time being.

We did have a conversation on Sunday about how this was going to work if this drug out for several months. We agreed that one way or another, she needs to get a job. More for her sanity, but possibly for her financial stability if she does end up getting her own place (I will not subsidize her in that regard...she's on her own). But that's not possible until she gets a job.

When she does have a job (which could be weeks, could be months....who knows in this job market?), I suppose we'll have to have another conversation about whether or not she's getting her own place. Or maybe not? You guys tell me. Again, I'm in the process of disengaging from her at the moment.

Also, are their rules on stuff that you do for your spouse that you've always done? For instance, I always took our cars to get oil changed, tires changed, etc. She never did. Her car needs an oil change badly. Do I keep doing those things that I've always done in the past?

[Accuray]

TRC2009,

Regardless of what arrangements you've made with W, things are sufficiently bad that you should talk to a lawyer just to understand things to avoid such that you are not compromising yourself. Usually a consultation is free.

Here's the problem with MC: It *never* works if only one party is interested in making things better. 95% of the time that people go to MC it's really too late for it to work because one partner has already checked out. They are going to be validated for their decision to leave, to establish that it's the other person's fault, and the other person who needs work, and/or to help their spouse find comfort in the fact that they are leaving.

MC *can* work if both parties are committed to doing the work, but in your W's case she seems reluctant at best. That being the case, I would not push it, but might instead talk to MC by yourself.

When a walkaway situation occurs your W will be harboring lots of resentment and anger toward you, and that can turn into contempt. If you then appear subservient, by begging/pleading/pursuing, it reinforces their feelings of contempt because you are putting yourself "one down".

If you then go to MC and the therapist encourages you to bare your soul, you are once again making your situation worse because your spouse is not doing the same, not interested in responding to your complaints. You're just deepening the imbalance in your relationship.

Most of the communication skills that you can learn through MC you can learn by working with the MC by yourself. While your W wants space, it's time for you to not wear your heart on your sleeve, not have R talks, and keep your feelings largely to yourself. To the degree that W wonders what's going on with you, that's to your advantage.

Finally, WRT your last question, I would continue to assume the roles you have always assumed provided that it does not impose intimacy or intrude on her space. Changing her oil is just doing your "husbandly duties" and I would continue to do so. Chore wise do what you have always done, no more no less.

Acc

[trc2009]

Accuray, I'm going to the MC by myself tomorrow. My w also has visited her individual therapist a few times as well (different person) for some issues she has that aren't entirely related to our marriage (although some of it is). I'm DEFINITELY trying to give her space with that.

I do need to get out of the habit of talking about our m and have been doing much better at that since the separation. We've only talked about it twice since the separation began and one of those times as at the MC so I guess that doesn't really count because you have to talk about your m at a mc.

I'm doing everything I can to do the 180. It's hard because there are kids involved and I do see her very often. I ordered DR yesterday and it should be here by Friday.

I do think a lot of my wifes apprehension to asking me to come home has a lot to do with our fighting being too much for her. I'm not the best person at communicating when I get into a fight/argument. I tend to shut down my ears and start talking. Obviously not good (two ears & one mouth for a reason). She said she and her therapist roleplayed our typical argument. And she said that I'm ready to give a response before she's even done asking a question/making a statement. So I have work to do in that regard because I definitely do that (not by choice obviously).

[trc2009]

Also, is it normal for WAW's to try to reconnect with old friends once they drop a bomb on their spouse? My wife has a few people that she started talking to that she really hasn't spoken with in years. One of them is a guy. I know for a fact that she wasn't talking to him before she dropped the bomb on me last month. They were very good friends before we met and he lives several States away. He's not a bad guy but made some pretty stupid decisions with his life a few years back that landed him in jail for a couple of years. He just got out less than a month ago. My wife told me that she messaged him to see if he was doing okay. Fair enough.

Well, she said that he texts her on occassion. Just general chit chat. I guess I'm not really threatened about her having a physical affair with someone who is fresh out of jail and is several states away. But I'm terribly concerned that she's having an emotional affair. Maybe she knows she's doing it and likes it. Maybe she just thinks she's being a good friend. I don't know.

But is something like this normal? Obviously if she's talking to him for an hour every night or they're constantly texting then that's a pretty good hint that an EA is happening.

[Accuray]

TRC2009,

Yes, it's normal at the point you decide to leave a relationship to seek support outside the marriage. Most WAS will seek "enablers" who will tell them that what they are doing is the right thing -- i.e. they will seek out people who have gotten a divorce or other people with troubled marriages. People who do not tell them what they want to hear are usually avoided.

It is also very common for a person leaving a relationship to be having an EA or a PA. It is usually the catalyst that allows them to drop the bomb, because they have arranged support and a soft landing.

Unfortunately, there's really nothing you can do about it other than not make it worse by trying to fight it. You have to take your eye off the ball and focus on you. You should also role play your arguments with your MC and have that person help you with your communication skills.

Do *not* broadcast your progress to your W, let her observe it (or not) for herself. If she thinks you're doing things as a ploy to get her back she will not be interested. If you make changes, she needs to believe they are real, and she will only believe that if you're doing it *for yourself* when no one is looking.

Acc