Rebel without a clue

[prometheus]

... I guess i will have to try and broach the subject again.

I broached before i left this afternoon (not wise i suspect :/)

I didn't like what W had to say when i pressed her for some feedback on my stated reluctance to leave. I got a lot of un-praise back for my trouble:-

I am extremely selfish, immature, only concerned with my own interests and not hers. I don't care about anyone else in the house. I am operating from a place of fear. I have a miserable face on ALL the time. She feels contempt and resentment towards me because i will not listen to her and move out. A lot more was said but that was the opening theme. I will sleep on it and post my thoughts later. It's late here...

When i got back tonight after this ^^^ discussion the tension in the house was high. D12 refused to talk or look at me. Both my sons wished me a happy birthday but my wife and daughter chose not to.

[AnotherStander]

I am extremely selfish, immature, only concerned with my own interests and not hers. I don't care about anyone else in the house. I am operating from a place of fear. I have a miserable face on ALL the time. She feels contempt and resentment towards me because i will not listen to her and move out.

Typical WAS spew, it's called "projection" because she's basically projecting all her own issues onto you. Don't argue with her, but also don't back down from your position, stand strong and confident! Just tell her you understand her concerns but you are doing what you feel is best for you and the kids.

[MrBond]

"Less than half an hour ago i worked up enough courage to tell my wife that i was "having difficulties with moving out". "

Why on earth would you tell her that? It shows your insecurities big time.

"I broached before i left this afternoon (not wise i suspect :/)"

Why do you keep poking the bear? Just stop bringing it up and start concentrating on your changes. Your fear is going to ruin your chances of reconciliation.

[prometheus]

I am extremely selfish, immature, only concerned with my own interests and not hers. I don't care about anyone else in the house. I am operating from a place of fear. I have a miserable face on ALL the time. She feels contempt and resentment towards me because i will not listen to her and move out.

Typical WAS spew, it's called "projection" because she's basically projecting all her own issues onto you. Don't argue with her, but also don't back down from your position, stand strong and confident! Just tell her you understand her concerns but you are doing what you feel is best for you and the kids.

Thans for the comment and advice AnotherStander. It really helps me get through. I am getting better at owning my own chit, and not taking on other peoples issues. When my self esteem is very low, i have the tendency to believe all of that stuff and take it to heart. Sometimes it is still hard not to. But i have realised, partly through all of the great help that i have had on this forum, that i am not responsible for the projected anger and spew. I am learning not to argue. In the past, i could not help myself; i would defend my position if i felt i was in the right. I am less inclined to these days. In my Wifes' eyes i am the cause of world hunger. Working on raising my self esteem has allowed me to be more forgiving of myself and others. I try my best and that is all that i can do. I am at peace with that.

As for standing strong and not backing down, i have wavered a lot. My general stand has been to silently hold my position. I have said to my wife tings along the lines of what you have suggested ^^^ in the past. That is when i feel i need to justify my position/reasons for staying the most. That is when i am likely to be drwn into an argument. Not any more!

At times, i have been persuaded by W and others that the best course is to make moves to leave the house. I start to follow through with the intent but the more i prosecute that line, the more something?? inside me begins to mount a resistance to leaving my family. All of a sudden the fog lifts and i find myself saying "what the ? Why are you leaving your children? Why are you giving up when you don't want to really? I am in turmoil over this. I still don't have a clear plan to move forward out of this impasse.

[prometheus]

Thanks for your questions and comments MrBond. Could you please expand upon the showing insecurities thing a little?

Why on earth would you tell her that? It shows your insecurities big time.

I told her that ^^^ because i wanted to be honest about where i was at. W had been asking for an update. I had renewed my resolve to stay after nearly taking an option on a room down the road (ie moving out for a while). I thought it was in the spirit of good communication to make that known, especially since...

Hi [wife],
I have been so selfish and I can see how hurt you are. I want to do my best to respect your wishes, so I have decided that the best way that I can begin to accommodate them is by agreeing to move out of our home. I will start to look for somewhere else to live.
One thing that I would ask though is that we can spend and share this christmas together.

That ^^^ was the last that W had heard from me on that subject. I had decided not to go and was informing her of my decision. That was on the 19th December, 2013.

Why do you keep poking the bear? Just stop bringing it up and start concentrating on your changes. Your fear is going to ruin your chances of reconciliation.

I guess i pressed her for feedback because i knew that there was more that she wanted to say. Our conversation was cut short. Also, W usually likes to check with her enablers and confidants before responding to me. The last i had heard from her was "you move out or we will". Maybe i was fishing. You are right though. I did not need to prompt her. Fear of the unknown potential? I will have a think about it. Thanks again for your thoughts.

My poking seems to have had some effect though. W brought stuff up last night to continue on from where we left off. More in my next post.

[MrBond]

Your insecurities stem from fear. It's unattractive. Would you want to go out with a woman who is clingy and afraid? YOU need to put your foot down and BE the man you once were.

This is why you need to read DB or DR right away.

"My poking seems to have had some effect though. W brought stuff up last night to continue on from where we left off. "

What you don't seem to get is that it's a BAD idea. All you're doing is having her focus on the negatives of your relationship. You need to switch things into the positive area and let it grow from there.

[prometheus]

Hello all,

I have been very low, depressed, unable to cope with much.

I received an email from my wife today. I would appreciate some help with how to respond. Please good people, give me some guidance in this. I feel like i can't do any more than acquiesce...:(

Here is the text of the email i recieved:

Hi prometheus.....
Sticking your head in the sand and pretending everything is OK
Doesn't make anything OK.....only worse.
Since you told me that you couldn't bring yourself to move out, things have become worse....these relationships cannot begin to heal until we completely separate.
I told you that if you wouldn't move out then I will, so I have started looking for somewhere else to live....which, I'm sure you understand wont be easy....complicated also by the fact that I resent you for putting me in this situation of disrupting the children more than is necessary.
The stress of this environment is making us all unwell.....and it needs to stop.
The most loving, generous & magnanimous thing you could do for your family is to give them the space to be comfortable enough to begin healing.... I will not change my mind, this marriage has gone as far as it can.... I cannot sacrifice myself or the children to it anymore.....we deserve a happy peaceful environment.....and so do you.


Thank you for your continuing support,

prometheus

[AnotherStander]

I would reply with something along the lines of "W, you sound angry and frustrated, I'm sorry you feel that way. I would prefer that we stay together and work on the marriage, but I do want you to be happy and if you feel that you must leave to be happy then I support you in your decision."

This is similar to what I told my W (in person) when she talked about leaving. It is based on a recommendation Charles Dobson made in his book "Love Must Be Tough".

I'm sure you're tempted to defend yourself, but don't do that as it will just anger her. For example, she says "Sticking your head in the sand and pretending everything is OK". I'm sure you want to respond by saying you do NOT think everything is OK, far from it in fact. But that is just arguing and arguing is pressure. Besides, she's just spewing. She knows darned well you don't think everything is OK.

[prometheus]

Thanks for your input AnotherStander. I have had a think about your wording of a reply and it seems very reasonable to me. I think i will reply pretty much as you have written.

I don't beleive that my wife is bluffing when she says that she is looking for somewhere else to move, and i do feel guilty thinking of the prospect of the children being disrupted by having to move house. I am worried that they will blame me for not leaving when asked.

You are right about wanting to defend myself. I am getting good at biting my tongue. I am wondering about the fact that my wife is unwilling to work on our marriage. I was thinking that the proposed reply would seem like more 'head in the sand' stuff from me.

[prometheus]

So i sent my wife a message almost verbatim to what AnotherStander suggested:

"Hi Wife,

I just read your email. I don't check this address very often, and this is one of the reasons for the late reply.

"Wife, you sound angry and frustrated, I'm sorry if you feel that way. I would prefer that we stay together and work on our relationship, but I do want you to be happy and if you feel that you *must* leave to be happy then I support you in your decision. But to reaffirm what i said, i would prefer that you did not leave.

Prometheus"

I have not received a response yet. My wife mentioned to me last week that she had had a tenancy application rejected. That is the only thing i have heard. Otherwise, W seems to be affecting a changeable hostile/cold/dismissive/annoyed/resentful/ demeanour whenever we interact - which is not often. For my own part, i have been the "friendly neighbour", but have tried to be mostly detached, focussed on the kids, my own life, etc.

Although i have badly wanted to defend myself on occasion, i have managed to resist. Now i am feeling in limbo to a degree, waiting for my wife to tell me that she has found a place and is moving out with the children. I am fully expecting this to happen and realise that i have no control/power over any of that. I am feeling a bit dead and empty inside. I find it hard to make plans in these circumstances (well, in most circumstances if the truth be told).