Introduction/ I feel like I am in limbo [Re: dbmod] JDM Online content New Member
Registered: 01/31/14 Posts: 1 Hi I am new here and found this site my accident will looking for any information that I can find on the web for guys who's wife has cheated but will not totally end the affair. I found a thread by wont_stop and have since registered. My Boom came on 11-13-13 when my wife of 20 years told me over the phone, while visiting her sister in LA, that she had found someone else. I knew we were having problems and was telling her that I had realized that I has a big part of the problem from some things that I was learning from the bible study that I was attending, and I was apologizing to her for. She said no that she was also the problem and when she told me what she did I would not want to stay with her. Well my heart went into my stomach and I felt sick because I felt I knew what she was going to stay. I pulled my truck into a parking lot. She told me she had started a relationship with a co-worker but it had not went all the way yet but there were some physical acts exchanged. Well I lost it and started crying and the conversation went on and off for several hours. I forgiver her and told her I don't care and I want to just save our family and work things out. I went home and was up all night I checked up on the OM online, and scheduled a flight to LA for later that week. I confront OM on phone next day told him to leave my W alone.
The time in LA was crazy a lot of crying, mostly me, she was cold and mostly unremorseful. Says that she is dead on the inside or her feelings are gone. I agree to leave LA after a few days to finish a business trip I had scheduled already.
We meet at the end of the week back at our home airport. I am an emotional wreck and I think now make all sorts of mistakes. I am very clingy and upset. I plead and beg. We have a huge fight at one point. Then a week or two later I notice that she is very distant. I send the boys out to get something to eat. I confront her she tells me I am still smothering her and she needs space and does not want to talk about it, but I persist. She admits she has now slept with OM because I pushed her to him because I am so emotional and she needed comfort! I forgive her again. At some point the boys come home and she says his name during the fight. She leaves during the fight. Our boys ask me about the name. I do not answer and say that mom needs to be home to talk about everything and answer questions also. She comes home and the whole truth comes out. This is sometime after Thanksgiving I think early December I had kept everything from them up to that point and did not want them to know. She now blames me for wanting them to know.
Fast forward a little I decide to snoop and set up some voice recorders in the house and hear a couple of phone conversations between her and OM where she is basically going to hang in for several months to finish some schooling and setup a few things and then leave. I call the marriage counselor, because I do not know what to do at this point, and think that I no longer want to continue because she had agreed to end the affair and has still been lying. Councilor advises me not to say anything until we are in our next session. I feel like this is a blind side and she would be pissed and I am pissed and can't wait to the for the next session. I call and say that I think it would be better for me to step out of the picture because she is having such a hard time making up her mind. That night I tell her that I heard the conversations she obviously looses it and leaves. She calls later and asks if I am going to fair in the D and I say yes. I had always planned to be. She was my first love and I still never really did not want nor do I want a D now, but on that night I did not no what else to say or do. I had been sleeping on the other side of the house. I wake up with her sitting on my bed. She starts to apologize and goes back and forth from apologizing to accusing me of everything. I have from the beginning of all of this admitted my part, and felt that affairs take two. My actions caused part of the problem. I was not meeting an emotional need or maybe several. Don't get me wrong she committed the act and going outside the M is never an option, and now I know how much it hurts I would never wish this on ANYONE!!!!!!! She tells me she does not want a divorce and wants to try to work things out. She does not want to throw 20 years away, but is confused and torn with her feelings. It is now the February and the status, according to her, is she is working out her feelings is not seeing OM and hardly talks to him.
I feel like I am in limbo all of the time. I feel like I am in competition with the OM. I have moved back in to our bedroom for the last two weeks. I just do not know how much more time I am suppose to give her for her to make up her mind. I feel hurt and disrespected by this situation. She has said that one of the past problems with our marriage is that she did not understand why she was not lovable and could not figure out what was wrong with her. I told her not being able to make a decision on this relationship has made me ask the same questions about myself. This is a summary and I have left out a lot of details and facts I am sure, but I am at a loss. I do not want to put my family through a D and I do love my W. She is the only woman that I have ever wanted in my life and every time I think about walking away and loosing our history and what we built I feel lost and sick. Any advise is much appreciated. I have read the list of DBing rules and the 180 concepts, and I am getting the book. Thanks in advance this is by far the most painful thing I have ever felt in my life. JDM
M 42 W 42 S 17 S 13 Married 20 Y Boom 11-13-13 outcome? JDM
Sorry you find yourself here. Early 40's seem to be a trigger for many folks, so your story is unfortunately repeated day after day all over the world.
Obviously you've figured out that pursuing/begging/pleading/shaming do NOT work. The best advice I can give you immediately is to engage a DB coach on this site to help you navigate your path forward. The *great* news is that your W is saying she wants to work things out, but it seems she's not fully committed, which is pretty normal.
Buy and read "The Divorce Remedy" and review Sandy's 37 rules.
A few points for you:
1) You are not in competition with OM: That relationship is based in fantasy and yours is a reality. You *cannot* compete with an affair partner because people in an affair view even the OM's problems as benefits, and will view all your benefits as problems. There is no level playing field or rational decision making going on at all, so just give up worrying about it, there is nothing you can do. All this will do is pummel your self-esteem.
2) If you are going to be successful, your W needs to agree to go "no contact" with OM now and forever, including changing jobs if necessary. That MUST be a condition you impose that you do NOT negotiate. That is a walk-away factor. Your W has become addicted to her feelings with OM and people who are addicted cannot continue to dabble and at the same time heal. It just doesn't work. Plus, your self-esteem will not recover as long as the two of them are in contact. You cannot make this demand now as she'll just ignore it. You need to make it at the point that she says she wants to get back into a marital relationship with you.
3) Be careful with what you overhear in your snooping. People say all kinds of things all the time when they think they are in a private setting. A lot of that can be false bravado, a whim, etc. When you're not listening, the consequences are minimal so they will spout off with things they don't mean. Hearing them can create more of a problem because you will interpret them as real and permanent when they may not be.
4) Your W's comment that she feels unloveable is interesting, but this is a common way for people to feel after they've had an affair and feel remorse. Although they won't admit it to you, they feel badly about themselves and this is one of the ways they express it. I would not dwell on this unless it gets repeated for several months. It's more like a stage of grief.
5) Marriages need balance to survive, and with your begging, pleading and spying you have put yourself in a "one down" position. That needs to stop. She needs to see you as confident, capable and self-assured. Marriage counseling can be your enemy in this regard, because the counselor can prompt you to be vulnerable and say things in front of W that are best kept to yourself at this point. Evaluate very carefully what you say in MC such that you are not deepening your one-down position. The other things that will help with your self confidence include GAL (described in the book), act-as-if (described in the book, like "fake it till you make it"), and goal setting and achievement for things outside your relationship.
Let us know if you have specific questions or want specific guidance. No matter what happens, you will feel better and you will find happiness again, with your W or without her, but it will take much longer than you are expecting -- months, not weeks.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Thank You ACC for your words, I have a question and an update from yesterday.
1. How do I engage a coach on this site?
Okay, for the last couple of days she is distant again which I know means she has talked to the OM, but I have started 180's so I am staying positive and do not respond when she asks if I am all right, so I say I am fine, or she says are you crying ,and I am not and I say no. I wake up last night, she is not in bed, so I go out and find her out on the couch. I ask her what is wrong, and tell her I know something is wrong, and she is not saying. She says nothing. I go back to bed stay up for about an hour it is 4:30 and time for me to get up and go to the gym. I always check my email at that time on my phone. I get a message from or phone company that our password has been changed to our account. I ask her about it she is very defensive and a small argument starts. I let her know, and she knows this already, that all my snooping had already stopped, and I had not looked at the phone company's website in weeks. I go to the gym. Later that day at work I give in and look. I already know that I am going to see the OM's number there which I do. I come home she is sad and moody. She keeps asking me what is wrong and if I have something to say I say no. I finally say quick asking me if something is wrong. I tell her that I she has something to say and will not say also. I leave the room and go about something else. She comes to the other room and says okay here it is, I think you are sick of everything, and you are going to ask for a D. I say sick of what? She says me. I say elaborate, she says how mean I am because I am still talking with OM, because I still have feelings for OM, I have seen him twice. I stop her and say what do you mean by "seen"? She says no sex just talked. I tell I do not want a D, but I can not live like this much longer with OM in the picture. She starts to cry and says she does not think that I can truly ever get over what she did and how ashamed she is by what she did. I tell her I can get over it but I can not start to completely heal until OM is gone and she is completely back at this point I cry some. She shares some stuff about him. How he just wants someone to love him. How she is afraid of what he will do when she ends it. He might hurt himself ect. He has kids. I tell her maybe some tough love might do him some good like she did with me when I hinted at that with her at the start of all of this. He has kids and to grow up. She defends him but does not see it that way. I back off. She tells me he broke up with her a couple of days ago. She told him she understood, which made him mad, and he came back. I told her this morning that was just him testing her to see if he could push the issue with her to see her reaction she agrees but defends. She tells me he is frustrated with her because she is not taking steps towards D. I tell her he is forcing the issue and I am not she defends. I back off. She tells me she is worried about the physical part of our relationship she has no desire to physically please me. That hurts, I try not to show emotion or act hurt. The bedroom is an issue, and my self esteem is on the floor and I am devastated. I am committed to my changes I had started a weight loss program a long time before the boom, back in Feb of 13 Boom came in Nov of 13. I have lost 150 lbs she has lost 100 lbs. I continue to work on this. I was big when we got M she was not. She always looked on the inward and not the outward. Also, she let me know at the beginning of all of this where I had let her down in our M, so I have been working on all of those changes; protecting her from my family, listing, helping out, kids, and a lot more. She now says she does not know if she wants to start all over with someone new and that I am invested in her in OM is not, but then she goes back and forth with emotions and anger. She also says he has said he does not know why I am fighting so hard if she had cheated on him he would have left. I am like he does know what a precious gem you are, and I say isn't that a huge red flag for you? There is more but I am at work and need to go I am maybe more confused now. She texts and says thank you for letting her be open and honest and that it helps and she is sorry for hurting me.
Thank you, JDM
M 42 W 42 S 17 S 13 Married 20 Y Boom 11-13-13 outcome? JDM
I'm sorry you find yourself here, but keep posting. Get the book, and read it....then read it again. Read the 37 rules a few times....let them sink in. Read other stories here...you can get advice about your sitch just by finding similar ones.
I totally agree with Acc...great advice there. I think his #5 is really important. You're not going to fix any of the problems in the M right now. The focus has to be ending contact with OM, rebuilding trust, and healing. At that point, you could start working thru things and addressing issues.
The problem here is that it takes a leap of faith from your W. She has to trust that you will change, that you can forgive, and things will be different. While in the middle of an PA, that's a pretty tough leap. Make no mistake....an affair is an addiction, and it's just as difficult to break as any addiction.
This is a tough deal man...I've been there. My W did the whole back and forth thing as long as she could....she'd even get me back right now if I'd allow it, but not without cutting contact with OM. I think the fact that OM is pushing her may give you an edge in this case. So don't push...don't apply pressure to her in any way. Give her space. Start working on you.
Seriously....you can't fix your M, you can't fix her...you can only fix YOU, so put your focus there.
There's an awful lot of info you're going to have to learn and absorb, so I'll try not to bombard you with too much right now. But think of this....in order to love you, your W has to respect you. Anything that you do that appears weak (begging for instance), is going to push her away from you. You have to find yourself again....find your confidence, be the man only a fool would leave.
Agree with Breakdown 100%. One trap we fall into as an LBS is that we think every conversation with the WAS is life or death, but it's not. This will unfold slowly over a long period of time. If you have something to tell her, tell her once. If she's not deaf, she heard you so no need to repeat it. Just let her know that you can and will forgive her with time, you understand that she's confused and her feelings are not there right now and that's okay, give herself some time to figure out what she wants. She didn't feel this way when she married you, so that's proof that feelings can change. Tell her that after some time passes, if she decides she does want to start a NEW relationship with you, you will both have work to do to make sure it doesn't end up like the last one, and that you're willing to do the work. That said, you will NOT re-engage unless OM is gone, there is no further contact ever, and she provides transparency until such time that trust is restored.
She doesn't have to decide that now, and you're not telling her what to do. She can do whatever she wants, but if she wants a relationship with you, that's the ticket for admission, then go out and get a life and start finding out how to have a good time again.
Acc
I would not get involved with advising or counseling her about what to do with OM. That's up to her. You can listen and practice active listening skills provided it's not hurting you. If it's hurting you to hear it then tell her you don't want to know.
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Okay, so crazy weekend. Things came to a head last night. I had posted that the OM had pushed her to make a decision and then he also backed away telling her he did not want to influence her decision. I felt that would maybe make him look like the hero because he was pulling away. Well so yesterday we go out to a late lunch, walk around the mall, and then to a movie. All goes okay until we get home and get ready for bed. I can tell she feels hesitant so we talk about our current situation and our relationship in the bedroom. Where she tells me again she still does not really have those types of feelings for me. I ask if she has been able to not keep in touch with OM like she had planned this past 4-5 days. She says no. Well something inside me could not take it. I could not hold back my emotions and some tears started, and I tell her I can no longer live like this and share her with someone else, and maybe she should just go to him. I did not want to live in limbo any longer and that I felt that I had given her enough time to decide. She said she did not want to loose me, or her family, and our 20 year marriage, and she was going to end the relationship and give me her phone. Well she tried to call him and text him with no answer. Now we start to get on the roller coaster of emotions. I end up leaving to go for a drive. Today she asks what I want to do to move forward with D or work it out. I say you know what I want what do you want? She says she is going to end relationship today with OM at 4:30PM when he get off work and I can listen to the conversation. Well did not happen she was on phone with her sister. She comes in and says she is still ending relationship but wants to do it alone because she is going to be very emotional. I told her this morning that my condition on moving forward was zero future contact or I would have to walk away and she said she would have to do the same. I don't know if I should believe her or not. She has blocked his number on her cell, and told me to do the same on the home phone, and to get caller id, and to feel free to check the phone records. I want to be happy, but I am afraid to let my guard down. She wants to go back to MC and a sex therapist also. Any advise would be much appreciated. Thanks, JDM
M 42 W 42 S 17 S 13 Married 20 Y Boom 11-13-13 outcome? JDM
What you described sounds very positive...but she has to understand that it's truly an addiction, so transparency is mandatory to ensure she doesn't falter. You need to be a team...working together to ensure this outsider does not get inside your M and destroy it. I think it's important to get in that mindset together. She knows she has a weakness...she has to let you help her manage it in the short term.
With that said, prepare yourself for a false start. Hopefully it won't happen, but you really can't compete with an affair. If she does cut it off, she'll likely have a few rough months as she mourns the death of that relationship.
So in the meantime, what are you doing for you? What are you working on for you? How are you becoming the man only a fool would leave?
JDM, have you read DR yet? I think you're putting WAY too much pressure on your W, and when you pressure a WAS it almost always ends in S or D. She is confused and doesn't know what to do, so if you start issuing ultimatums then she's going to decide against you and then tell you it's your fault because you pushed her into it. STOP the pressure. In fact right now I think you should just stop everything until you can read DR. Your W needs time and space, give it to her.
