I’m not sure what to do any more. That is the main reason I’m posting here. I feel as if I have a situation that is no good either direction I pick.
History: After we had children, most of my energy went into taking care of them (one is a slow learner, maybe a bit of Asberger’s, and is years behind other kids her age, so she’s difficult to teach). I took on the task of being a homeschool mom. Most of my time was spent working with my children and learning techniques to find curriculum every year and instruct them. Anyway, this ate up most of my energy, and my M deteriorated because of it. Not fights or arguments, just a lack of libido on my part, and I just didn’t spend enough time with H and nurturing our M.
Over the past 10 years or so H had a few OOW/EA and one sexual affair. As soon as I found out about each one I said to stop, which he did. The affairs would usually come up every two years or so.
Sept 2013: H actually asks me if he can have an affair. I say OK as long as I don’t know about it (yeah, that sounds really dumb, but I had no libido at the time and didn't want to lose him). I figured he would have a one-night stand and be done with it. Not much later H begins acting very flirty and loving around me, which is nice, but not his usual self (we care for each other, but not in such an outgoing way).
Nov 2013: I found out that H had been having an ongoing EA with an old HS buddy that he met at his HS reunion in Sept 2013—txting and calling daily and a couple expensive gifts were given/offered. I told him this is not what I meant by an affair, but he says I gave my permission, so it’s partially my fault, too. H refuses to give OW up but insists that they can be friends. He accuses me of running his life and holding back sex for many years, so he had no other choice. I tell him we may need to separate.
late Nov 2013: I begin to study our R and begin working on it in earnest. I realize that I had not given enough time and attention to our R. Luckily, one of my D is going to public school, and I hired tutors for my LD daughter. I now have more time for myself for once. I make a point to contact my husband more often for reasons other than business matters. I work on connecting with him. He is very loving toward me. I change the time I go to bed (9 pm instead of midnight), so that we can go to bed together. This helps our closeness. I initiate sex more often, and we progress in that area very nicely :-)
Dec 2013: H and OW have curtailed txt/calls greatly, but they are still “friends.” I ask H to not contact her over Christmas because my family is in town, and I don’t want to have an emotional meltdown while they are here. This request is satisfied.
Jan 2013: H and OW start communication again. Mostly H seems to be the one contacting her, but OW is happy to reply. H has no other friends, and never really has. All of his friends have been women, it seems, and they all turn into EAs. When I tell him this he becomes defensive, says I want to control his life (stop him from having friends), and he can’t help it that he has these kinds of “friendships” and that is just the way he is (he did have two very good female friends when we were dating, and his groomsman was actually a woman).
We begin seeing an MC. I hate these sessions because I always cry, and we always talk about how I feel, but it never seems to change the way my H feels about OW. Even though H sees and hears how upset this “friendship” makes me, he refuses to stop contacting OW. He continues to put partial blame on me for them getting together and says they are just friends. His txts to her are about mundane, everyday things, but I know that they are still in contact, and it breaks my heart every time I think about it (which is too often). If something is this hurtful to me, and he truly loves me, why won’t he give it up? That’s what constantly runs through my head.
So I am debating what to do—Husband constantly tells me how much he loves me and is very affectionate. I feel separating is not a good idea, as we actually function very well as a couple (except for the OW). He never contacts her during our family time or when I am with H, thank Heavens. I have daily struggles and about every three days I am very depressed. Yes, I did push him away for many years, and he often falls on that excuse to keep the friendship going with the OW. Obviously this friendship is hurtful to me, but it never impedes on my time with my H or our family time. Can an affair actually turn into a friendship? Do I let this friendship continue or put my foot down when my H really has no other friends? Will his distance (because of loss of friend) help or harm our marriage?
----------------------------- Me-50 Married 25 yrs D15, D18 Husband is “friends” with OW
That's a tough situation for sure! To answer your last question first, yes, I believe affairs can turn into friendships. People have affairs for a variety of different reasons and get different things out of them. That said, whether this woman is his friend or not isn't the point, the point is that their relationship is not okay with you!
You two are at an impasse, you want him to make a change in his life and he doesn't want to do it. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do to force him to make that change, so it's up to you to determine if you can continue to tolerate that friendship or not.
If you decide you can tolerate it, then you need to find a way to make peace with it -- maybe reach out to OW yourself and try to make a connection with her. If you know each other better you may not feel as threatened and she may feel more of a sense of proper boundaries. Seek some professional help to determine what if anything you can do to find peace with the situation.
If you decide you cannot tolerate it, then it really doesn't matter what counter-arguments he makes. The point is that you will not live in an open marriage, and you feel that his relationship with OW crosses a boundary that you are not comfortable with. Therefore, if he wants to be in a relationship with YOU, he needs to end the relationship with OW and go "no contact" now and forever. This is not a negotiation, there is no give and take. This is you stating a boundary that is based on your personal integrity.
What you have to accept is that you are not seeking to control him. He can do whatever he wants, including leaving you if you take this position, it's up to him to decide. You're simply putting it out there like this:
"H, I believe in our marriage. I know I've made mistakes in the past and that my actions hurt you. I know I've made some bad decisions that hurt both of us. I could give you a lot of excuses for why I did these things or made these decisions, but the point is that it doesn't matter, because they hurt you, and I am sorry for that. I'm interested in making things right going forward, and continuing to invest in our marriage the way I've been doing. In order for me to continue to do that, I cannot be in an open marriage. Although I understand that you are comfortable with your relationship with OW, it is over the line for me, and I can't live with it. If you would like to be in a relationship with me, your relationship with OW needs to end. I'm not telling you what to do or trying to control you, the choice is yours. I hope you choose to be in a marriage with me, I'm sure we can have a great one, but it is for you to decide."
Something like that.
Either that or you have to find a way to accept it as-is. There's not really going to be a compromise here that works.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Thanks for the replies, Cadet and Acc. I was able to speak with my MC on my own last week, and I came to the conclusion that I will accept the OW as a friend for now. I am hoping that by summer I can reach out and find friendship (right now that's tough for me).
H and I have had some very good days since last Friday and just need to continue finding each other again. We spend a lot of time together when we can, and are taking steps toward better communication skills.
I figure I'll give our marriage a year. Either this will all blow over (and I will be friends with OW), or my husband will ramp up to EA/PA again, and then he will definitely have to leave (he knows this). Still working on my boundaries, but they are becoming more clear.
I will definitely spend time working on me. I have been neglectful of myself and that has to stop.
Yuck, a bad day. Crying. Feeling so let down that my H would choose to keep a "friend" and end our marriage as opposed to let that "friend" go. I tried to hold it together for a few days, but this morning I woke up sad and defeated. I have other issues, such as, my daughter is going through very rough physical therapy (3-4 hours per day, 3 days a week) for her scoliosis, which sometimes makes her upset (it's painful), which then makes me upset. And those negative emotions only bring out everything else that makes me feel sad and sometimes a failure.
And at these times I feel like tossing my H out on his ear.
All my H can see is that I'm just no fun to be around every three days or so.
Obviously I'm not doing well on the GAL right now.
Actually feeling fairly good yesterday. More clear in my thinking -- that I need to stand my ground for what I know is right for me right now. Took me a long time to hit that realization, but now that it's here, I feel much better :-) So, I will need to tell H that I cannot live a normal life with him being friends with OW, and that he will have to make the decision to cut off communication or go. That realization happened yesterday - Feb 13.
So today is Feb 14. H didn't say much to me this morning - no "Happy Valentine's Day" or anything other than "Goodbye" and a quick kiss as he left for work. I just got a call from H asking me if he could buy a birthday gift for OW. Interesting day he chose to ask me that--Valentine's Day. Well-played, H, well-played. It's pretty much a full kick in the gut, but I can take it, because I'm working on my GAL ;-)
I will make this a day full of love and happiness for myself and my Ds and friends. We are all going out to a wonderful dinner and show (H will be there, but I'll be fine and cool as a cucumber).
I called up H and let him have it - yelling and crying (which I have rarely done during out 25-year marriage, except the past couple of months). I asked how he could even think that it was okay to ask me about gifts for the OW. I told him I deserve to be treated better, and that I was a gem worth keeping, and that I was now setting a boundary that all communication with OW had to stop. He calmly apologized and said it was a mistake for him to ask me that on Valentine's Day (lately most of his responses to me have been very cool and clinical--like he's a counselor). I told him a few days ago after one of his cool, "I'm sorry you feel that way," responses that I would much rather have a hug than such an unemotional response. He didn't have a response to that.
Anyway, H said he'd be home from work as soon as he could. When he did arrive we basically stated our boundaries -- mine was that all contact with OW had to stop. His response was that he was tired of my dictating who he could/could not have as a friend. I restated that EA/PA/infatuations did not count as friends. He didn't agree and just restated that he could no longer have me telling him who he could have as a friend.
H then said that after he had spoken with our marriage counselor on Thurs he had decided he wanted a divorce. Cr@p! He cried for a minute or two. Soon after that he stated he would be changing all of his login codes for his computer/phone (I had access to them previously). I thought it was odd that that was one of the first things he mentioned after bringing up the divorce. He also talked about living arrangements and what assets we need to get in order (obviously he'd been thinking about this for a little while).
He said that he loved me very much and would always take care of my Ds and me as long as I needed him to.
Since then I have been aloof towards him. I did not sleep in the same room with him last night. I did not return the kiss he gave me on the cheek. I did not respond to him saying, "I love you." I did give him a hug this morning when he asked for one.
He is very loving and caring, and I believe this is really hurting him. He has not shut me out, but he still wants a divorce, or at least a separation. I'm not sure what to do now since he is showing love and concern. Do I keep him at a distance? Today I left the house for 4 hours and after returning home I stayed most of the time in another room, not really conversing with him at all unless needed.
Should I talk with him and try and paint a picture of how life will be after the divorce - how our family will be broken apart during the holidays, how he will have less time with the Ds (H said after he finds a place out of the house he wants to come over in the morning and take care of their breakfast getting them off to school)? I'm not sure how I should act around him...
----------------------- Me-50 Married 25, Together 28 D15, D18 EA since Aug 2013 H pulls back EA to "friend" status Dec 2013 D-Bomb dropped: Valentine's Day 2014 (that [censored]!)
The lack of attention has paid off quickly, as H has been very caring and loving, almost to the point of being too pushy. He has asked that we hold off on divorce. He said that we can take time to figure things out :-)
For now I will keep on the same path. We will need to somehow turn the office into a room for H so I can have my own space.
I have decided to think of our neglected house as our neglected marriage. I will spend time making it beautiful again, and I will spend time working on me. I still don't know how to deal with a H who thinks that he needs an open marriage and who needs to be infatuated to be happy. It's been going on for years. Every couple of years he's tried to have an EA/PA or has wanted me to have a PA with someone else. I think he's a bit hypersexual, which has me worried that if all sex is turned off for a lengthy period of time, H will definitely be heading elsewhere.
------------------------ Me-50 Married 25, Together 28 D15, D18 EA since Aug 2013 H pulls back EA to "friend" status Dec 2013 D-Bomb dropped: Valentine's Day 2014
