still trying to stand

[sedja]

this is the first conversation I had with my wife about us in months about our R, maybe some one can tell me at what point I should start smacking my self with a 2 x 4.
w: Hey
m: hello
w: What you doing
m: reading
w: What you reading
m: couple different books
w: Title
w: Or shall I say titles
m: one is the five love languages and the other is a book for celebrate recovery, oh and a cussler book for lite reading
w: Lol.light reading?
m: the cussler books don't take much thinking, just imagination
the other two take a lot of reflection
w: I see
You may be right
In fact you are right.
m: that I need a lot of reflection?
w: For you, reflection would be good
m: you are probably right
w: So what do you see when you reflect?
m: the direction I want to move toward
w: Which is?
m: to grow

at this point I am thinking in need to get of the tracks because i can see what"s coming, but well I guess I had to see where her mind is at so I stayed

w: What do you see for us?
m: I can only give half that answer
w: Ok. give me half
m: yes
w: So what do you see?
m: are you sure
W: Yes. Tell me
m: I am waiting on you
W: You said you only know half. I wanted to hear your half
m: I am only half of us, I am waiting on you to see what you are going to do with your half of us
w: You think we would truly ever work out? Seriously?
w: you've been saying ever since the beginning of our marriage things would change.......instead of for good it just etching away. . ......never getting better.
w: All that we mastered was on how to strip someone of themselves til they are all depleted to nothing of themselves.
w: I can't seem to function on somethings that are just plain and simple. But I had it taken for so long that I can't function without your suppression.
m: I am sorry you feel that way
w: It's really sickening.....
w: I don't think you realize the mental damage I have. It's stupid.
m: I understand
w: Really? You think you do?
m: you have a good evening ok goodnight
w: What's wrong
w: Good night

I have let go of her, I put no pressure on her, this is our first OR talk since she left the second time in august other wise I stay quiet, tonight I tried to stay distant but conversational

if someone can give me some advice I would appreciate it. my wife has always made up her own mind. I just don't understand where this suppression thinking comes from.

[Accuray]

She was asking you a lot of questions but I don't think she cared what you had to say, she was just waiting for an opportunity to unload on you. She won't be able to move forward until she works through her anger so rather than ending the conversation and telling her you understand (which she doesn't believe) let her rip and do nothing but clarify if you're strong enough. She has more she wants to say -- let her say it.

[OneDay]

I agree with Accuray, she has a ton more she wants to say.

I want to ask you, Do you really "understand" what she is saying/feeling? You might agree with her, but I dont think you really understand how she is truly feeling. No matter what she is feeling today, there is nothing you can "say" that will make her feel differently at the moment. She is probably tired of words and empty promises.

I would say you need to work on yourself, on 180's and show her, GAL and DETACH

[OneDay]

This is from Rick1963, its perfectly worded.

If u guys read those threads where they reconcile you will notice that the LBS move on and made changes. They looked at themselves, hard and became happy with who they are/were. They acknowledged their flaws and changed them. They didn't talk about changing they actually did it. They began to have a happy life, they planned and hoped all without ex in the picture. They regain who they were once. That is you.....
Try it. It may work. It may not. But your life ain't over just yet smile

[Accuray]

Sedja, it sounds like your W has been doing some evaluation of your situation and convinced herself of some things, either by herself or with someone's help.

It sounds like she has constructed herself as the victim with you as her oppressor, and your "oppression" accounts for anything she might have done wrong, or anything she feels she missed out on in life.

If she doesn't get to air that with you, she will continue to fixate on it and it will become more and more real to her.

If you want to attempt to diffuse that, here's what you need to do:

1) Tell her that you heard what she said the other day, but you're not sure you understood it and would like to hear it again. Ask her to take you through it once more and explain what she's been thinking about.

2) The hard part: Listen to what she says as if you were a reporter and had no emotional stake in the game. Ask questions to clarify, repeat it back, but do not defend, argue, or offer different perspectives, EVEN IF WHAT SHE SAYS IS OFFENSIVE AND/OR RIDICULOUS.

3) Tell her you want to think about what she said and then read it back to her in a day or so to make sure you understand it. Wait 24-48 hours, then explain back to her what she explained to you and confirm that you understood it correctly.

Why go through this torture?

A) Once she's aired it, she won't fixate on it. If she feels you heard and understood her and didn't fight her on it, the issue comes off the table and the air is cleared.

B) When you read it back to her after 24-48 hours, the things she said that were the most ridiculous/offensive will be apparent when she hears them back and she is likely to see that for the first time and/or rethink it. That is a much more effective approach than arguing with her when she presents it, or overtly trying to show her she's wrong.

"You always oppressed me and never let me be happy!"

24 - 48 hours later: "You said that I always oppressed you and never let you be happy -- do I have that right?"

"Well, I guess you didn't *always* oppress me..."

That's how you get her thinking started. Otherwise she's just going to dig in harder on her position.

Acc

[SM34]

The way you cut her short may have been 'more of the same'. Did you often not give her the chance to tell you her problems?

[sedja]

Thank you all for your thoughts, and advice, I agree she had more to say, but at the time I felt she was fishing and would have kept going until she got the response she was looking for. the past year has taught me a lot about myself and what I need to change, and she likes to test. I know I didn't give her what she was looking for, when she tells me that she would have to be crazy to come home to me(or her children and grand children).

that is what she says when ever she can get me to play her "game" ( I only use the term because the lack of vocabulary on my part, I know that her feelings and how she chooses to deal with them are not a game) so some times I just step back before it gets there so I don't have to see those words on the screen (a bit cowardly) . please don't miss understand me, I listen and respond to everything she brings up. I validate, I take responsibility for my part of this crisis, and take the hit and roll with the rest of the stuff she projects at me.

The holidays started good and went down hill fast with the help of a common friends wife. her good intentions set our relationship back. this is a good example of watch what you tell your common friends.

I had shared, that just when I get my feeling under control and find contentment in the fact that my wife has to walk her path, she comes around and I have to start all over (I take that as a sign, that I have not completely let go as of yet, baby steps).
anyway my friend shared this with his wife, who when we were at a common event, took my wife aside and shared that "I wish she would quit coming around because all she does is cause trouble and pain for the children and I"(and I was wondering why she started ignoring me the rest of the night).

up to this point we had gone from "hey" as a form of greeting to the use of first names, and from "see you later" to "good night I love you" and said with warmth in her eyes not the coldness I had seen prior. and from no physical contact by her, to holding my hand and embracing and not wanting to pull away. this all with in the last few weeks. that was until my friends wife "helped" at least.

we did get together for Christmas, but she was cold at first and maybe I seemed that way to her. but by the evening she seemed to warm up and so I relaxed, but was still guarded

I am not sure the exact words I used when I talked with my friend, but I said it close to just what I typed in the previous paragraph. no matter what, I don't feel that way about what my wife and I are going through and would not have expressed it that way.so I will chalk it up to a miss understanding. I know that my friend is tell me to "get rid of her" because of all the men she has been seeing in the past 6 months, and I guess his wife has the same bias. They keep telling me I am a "good man and she don't deserve me".

I guess if they are right then a good man deserves a good woman.
what they are not understanding, is that my wife, at this moment, is in crisis, and I can live with that. she has been and will be again a good woman, wife, mother, and friend.

so lesson learned move on, not sure on the damage done yet by my friends wife "helping" me, but when the wife and I parted Christmas evening, I did not see the coldness that was there before, so I have hope.

I can not imagine the kind of stress she has chosen to place on herself through this crisis, but I cannot see her holding on for much longer. and then again, she is pretty tough and stubborn. I mean lets face it she married me

[paul19510]

Thank you for sharing this its helpful. This is by no means a critisism I am going to avoid telling my W (if we even talk about the R ) exactly what I am reading. Never seems to work well. I wish you luck and I agree that I think she just wants to unload her baggage. Maybe it helps her maybe not.

[LITB]

Accuray's advice to you is pure gold. I hope you read it and reread it a few times.

I'd highly suggest not sharing your sitch with mutual friends. Keep your sitch to a couple of trustworthy friends who support the idea of you saving your M/R. It is difficult enough to go through this, without the additional influences. There is something at the beginning of the DR that covers this.