scared, confused, hopeful...

[juliegayle]

At this point I feel like I am all over the place. I have been reading "Divorce Remedy" and lurking for a few weeks.

Here is my situation

Me 42 H 40
M 10 T 12
S 18 and S 15 (his) S 9 (ours)

We have had our ups and downs over the last few years but I always thought that we were connected, a team. Our fights were bitter and we would both say things we regretted later. H drinks and gets mean and I never learned how to walk away from a fight. My fighting style is big and then it's over. Last spring we had a a health scare that that turned out to be nothing. However, it seemed like overnight we were back to the way we were the first few years if marriage.

Sept- we both forgot our anniversary. I brought it up next day.. we were busy with work, kids etc. Let's plan something. He says the fact that we forgot made him realize how miserable he has been. He just wants to be happy. He just wants to be free to "do whatever he wants."

I do everything wrong. Suggest MC, offer articles for him to read, ... he completely shuts me out. Starts sleeping in spare bed, suddenly has phone password protected, starts going out every night for 2 hour walks with dog. Starts drinking nightly sitting in his car.

Oct. Confirm EA through phone records. He denies. He says he has never been happy with me. Somehow I have simultaneously ignored him and completely controlled him. All of our problems are my fault.

Again I do everything wrong. Beg, plead. demand he stop talking to her. He says he loves ne and wants to work on marriage but doesn't follow through and says it is all about me trying to control him.

I started IC and reading DR. Try a 180 on my behavior. Stop being needy and and clingy. Stop asking about OW (even when I found an unopened box of condoms in our trash) Started trying to really listen to him. Ask him questions about his day. Told him I have finally let go of anger I have been holding because hitting rock bottom has made me see the part I played in marriage problems.

This is all wrong too and makes him mad.

[Mimi00]

Hello....sorry you find yourself here, but welcome.

No need to tell H about you changes like letting go of anger. Let your mouth stay silent and let your actions speak for you.

All WASs will be annoyed at the changes they see the LBS make AFTER they feel the marriage has fallen apart....so don't let that bother you. Keep working on yourself for yourself and I hope your H begins to see the grass isn't greener on the other side.

[melissag]

Julie, this isn't a club anyone wants to join, but know that you are in the best possible place for help and support. Being on moderation stinks - just keep posting and you'll be off before you know it.

What did you fight about? How did you both forget about your anniversary???

I think that is pretty common for a WAS (especially a man) to want to get away so they can do whatever they want. (My H told me yesterday he is now trying to figure out whether he prefers 100% autonomy or the benefits of marriage.) They feel this way when they feel trapped. Getting out is what seems like the best and only option. And in order to do so, you have to be the scapegoat of all the problems and misery he is feeling.

Don't worry about messing up and doing all the wrong things at first - we've all done that! Your H will quickly see that you are no longer doing this - it would be impossible not to notice. I could tell a big relief in H and softening toward me very shortly after I stopped.

So you've done 180s. What about GAL? What have you done in that regard? Have you looked within yourself to see what part you played in the demise of the M? Surely it wasn't a one way street, but looking at his role in this won't help you. Right no, you can only work on you.

If the 180s make him mad, that doesn't mean you should quit. Mimi is so right, they almost all get mad about this. I think it has something to do with having finally convinced themselves that leaving is the only way out and the right thing to do, and now you're making it more difficult. Also, he most likely doesn't believe that it is actually real, but a ploy to get him to change his mind.

Hang in there, and while you are waiting to get off moderation, read, read, read! You will learn a ton in the threads here - lots of great advice from the vets.

[juliegayle]

Thank you Mimi and Melissa. We fought about day to day stuff..money, housework etc. 2 weeks ago we had a fight that I guess you would call the BD. We were supposed to go hiking to have a day to just relax and not talk about relationship. He cancelled and said he knew we would just end up fighting. I knew he had a few beers and I should have just walked away but I didn't and started questioning his motives for canceling and about OW. Things escalated and he said he was going to kick me out and keep kids with him. I freaked out and fought back and in the end we agreed to stay in same house and be civil for the kids.

Now I feel I am in limbo. One day he won't talk to me and the next he calls to see what he can make us for dinner. We will watch tv together and play chess and then he will go sit in his car for an hour texting. Next day he will be back to glaring at me like he can't stand the sight of me.

I have thought about GALing and about my role in our problems and will post on those when I can.

[juliegayle]

I have been doing a lot of soul searching on my role in our marriage breakdown. I hope to talk more about this in IC but right now she is more interested in helping me deal with an alcoholic. Her advice us similar to what I am getting here and from DR. 1. Take everything he says with a huge grain of salt. 2. Don't ask questions about his activities or OW. 3. Do not engage when he is drinking/mean.

So here is what I have discovered about myself. I hold grudges about things I probably never should have been mad about in first place.

1. His drinking. I never acknowledged it is a disease.
2. Money. He has lost 3 jobs since we have been married. I have at times worked 2 while he wasn't working. I know I wasn't supportive and made him feel bad about not providing enough.
3. While he wasn't working I expected him to do majority of taking care of house and I'm sure I wasn't nice about it.

So when he says I don't value him or appreciate him I can see how he thinks that. I must have been a real b***.

So I am mad at him and at the same time I think I put up a wall if protection because he is super mean when he drinks and said a lot of things that fed into my insecurities. ..

I still don't get how he cannot acknowledge his part but that seems to be a common thread among WAS.

[lovethehub]

1. His drinking. I never acknowledged it is a disease.

It is definitely a disease. Have you tried Al-anon? Try different groups until you find one (or 2 or 3) that you really like and start going. It should help you a lot in dealing with H's alcoholism. It is the only thing you can do to help that part of your situation because the rest is up to H and you can't control him, which you already know!

Money. He has lost 3 jobs since we have been married. I have at times worked 2 while he wasn't working. I know I wasn't supportive and made him feel bad about not providing enough.

Money was a big issue in my M, too, and I know I made H feel bad about not providing enough. That is probably one of the hardest things for a man because they do feel they should be the breadwinner (or most do) and when they aren't, it can be a blow to them. Having their W put it out over and over makes the problem worse.

While he wasn't working I expected him to do majority of taking care of house and I'm sure I wasn't nice about it.

Not an unreasonable expectation, however, it is all in the presentation. I feel like we are a lot alike

So when he says I don't value him or appreciate him I can see how he thinks that. I must have been a real b***.

So I am mad at him and at the same time I think I put up a wall if protection because he is super mean when he drinks and said a lot of things that fed into my insecurities. ..

We make mistakes and all we can do is learn from them. Have you read Divorce Remedy? If not, be sure you do.

As of today, don't bug or nag H about anything. This doesn't mean you are being a doormat, it is temporary. I don't mean you will go back to nagging at some point, I mean that when things work out, you can address issues in the M. Right now, you can't do that and all you can do is show H a different side of you.

When my H was done with our M, I Db'd my heart out. I did not call or text him about anything unless it was about the kids and couldn't wait until he came home. I was always in a good mood but I did my own thing. I still cooked dinner because we are a family, with children, and if we were living in the same house I didn't want my kids to notice anything was wrong. If your H calls about dinner one night decide what you want and then be sure to thank him for it and tell him how much you appreciate it.

Do NOT initiate ANY R talk, including letting him know that you understand how/why he feels this way, that you are changing, etc. Not a word. Just go about changing, living your life and becoming a spouse he would be a fool to leave.

Do your best to appear content and give him his space. I was always friendly to H but I gave him the impression I accepted his decision to end our M and I was going to make the best of it.

My official BD was 2/14 but it had really happened in early January, it just wasn't verbalized. It took until mid-late May before he began to come around at all. It wasn't until July that he was really willing to start trying to make things better even though we were somewhat back together by the end of May. In September I felt we were truly in piecing.

It takes time. You cannot try to push it, change his mind, move it along faster. It won't work.

I still don't get how he cannot acknowledge his part but that seems to be a common thread among WAS.

I'm not even sure if my H ever acknowledged his part. He acknowledged some of it but not most. To be honest, once we were on the path to reconciliation and I had apologized to him for everything I had done (without any expectations and any justification for my choices) I didn't care about what he had done in the past. He may even have apologized for more than I think but I really don't know because it truly didn't matter. After what I learned from the books and the advice on this site, the only thing that mattered to me was being sure he understood how I felt about what I had done to him and how sorry I really was. My point is that, once you detach and let go, the apology for what led up to all of this, or their taking blame for what they did, isn't always as important as it once was.

Detach..that is the most important thing. You can still be kind and friendly to H, just do your own thing and refuse to let his behaviors get to you. I know it's hard. I would run in my room and pull out my journal and write furiously whenever H did something that annoyed me! I think journaling helped me the most and really allowed me to understand my part as I was writing about my feelings.

[juliegayle]

I am about halfway through reading Divorce Remedy. I find myself saying "yup that's me" or "wow that's us." A lot.

One goal that I set was for H to start thinking that our M may be salvaged. Small first signs I would see would be him asking me about my day or making any reference to me in his his future.

Last night after we put son to sleep he sat with me and showed ne a funny clip he saw on youtube. Then he started talking about building a bigger tank for our turtle. He said "we could. .." rather than "I could" I may be grasping at straws but I am taking it as a baby step.

I am trying really hard not to skip ahead to chapter on infidelity. I know the changes I am making now will make me a better person- for myself and my kids. I just am having a hard time staying positive about future of M when H is still having A and denying it. My friends and family think I am crazy but I feel like I have to try to make my family whole again

[JayMan]

Julie,
I'm sorry you're here, but as others have said it is amazing the group of folks that are here that will love you, and slap you upside the head, and hug you when you need it.

You sound a little bit like my W and I - we are both awesome arguers, and great at one-upping the other person, and it degenerated into W having basically a one-night stand (except it was two times).

One of the best things I ever did was mostly step back from the arguing. My posts are full of drama and roller-coaster riding, but I mostly vented on here, and I was always honest about my stupid mistakes.

If you find yourself starting to confront or argue, come on here, and ride 8 or 10 paragraphs. You'll get it out, you'll feel better, and you'll save the drama with your H.

My W and I are, I guess, "piecing", but I owe everything I did right to the good people on here, and DR.

[JayMan]

*ride=write

[juliegayle]

Thanks JonF. Ride made sense when I read it... ride it out etc. That is good advice and I have a feeling you will all be hearing a a lot from me.