Who is this woman&what has she done with my wife 2

[THX-1138]

Here's my first thread.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2399949&#Post2399949

This post starts the second.

[TSquared2]

Bringing this over from your previous thread.

And architect it is...not sure why I thought you were an engineer...similar thought processes?

Starting from the math thing

Sure, I get that, and follow it myself. And there is the mental maturity thing too, I have acquaintances who should date a 24 year old, because that's about their mental age. And I know people who are around 36, but fit in better with old farts past mid-forties. Regardless, whether 20 or 75, the A was wrong, plain old simple wrong. You can add degrees of wrong, your choice, I don't, my choice. It's pretty binary for me.

Look, I remember being right where you are at, okay? In fact, that this is the 2 year anniversary time of my sitch, I am having flashbacks to the initial BD time, and accessing those feelings again.

So, would you over the weekend give some info on your W's upbringing, relations with parents, siblings, how she was in high school/college (eg, wallflower or party girl), etc? And any other things, traumas, etc since you've been M?

Here's why...what helped me move past this anger part, which took a terrible toll on me physically (nothing like having a toilet bowl full of blood from a bleeding ulcer to get one to re-think things), was to just "try" understanding, looking at it from her POV, from her life experience. For example, my W was sexually abused as a child and young teenager by her dad, and he then abandoned her and the rest of the kids emotionally until 2 years or so before he died (which triggered W's mlc rumblings I believe)...well, how does that affect a girls development? I had a great childhood, so I had no idea. She was horridly shy and a wall flower as a teen and young adult, I was her 2nd "real" relationship...I had a very, very well mis-spent youth, so I had worked through a lot of stuff by the time we got m.

Point is, I want to try to maybe help you get some understanding. I need to understand everything, it's my engineering nature. Doesn't mean you have to change anything, forgive, have compassion, etc. Those are all your choices to do, or not do.

I would rather make those choices with understanding, so I knew for me I made the right choice.

There is a cause for every effect, right? We are living in the effect (mlc), I would want to know the cause, or likely causes/theories.

So, would you do that for me?

Thanks!

[TSquared2]

One other thing, is that for my W, go go from sweet, loving, nicest woman, devoted Mom, I knew to some complete mean stranger, doing things she would never do, ignoring her kids, etc over a couple months time frame told me that something was horribly wrong. It is completely illogical for that to happen, that it wasn't just a choice she chose one day out of nowhere. It had to have some basis, some reason, driving it.

There was the co-incidental thing about both times of entering replay (2009 and 2011) she had come up on a max dose of a particular AD, which I've seen forums on the web devoted to this sort of thing by people on it, or rather, their spouses and families.

People just don't flip like that on a chosen whim, you know? I wanted to try to get her to have an MRI to see if there was a brain tumor or something...

[THX-1138]

Wow, there's math to figure out what's right and wrong in a relationship or affair? Who knew?

Yeah, it's pretty well standardized and codified:
https://www.google.com/#q=half+your+age+plus+seven

[If the link disappears, just Google half your age plus seven.]

It's kinda impressive when someone can attract someone so much younger than themselves. Your W must still be hot.

She is, but I think what it really proves is this guy is a horny cretin who can't get laid by someone his age. Personally, when I was 24, I would not have slept with a woman older than my mom (unless she was Bridget Bardot, and probs not even then).

It also illustrates how desperate for attention and reassurance of her desirability the wife is.

The youngster affair has almost no chance of lasting.

Will you still be there when it's over? You don't have to be.

I don't know. It appears that I will have a long time to decide, perhaps an eternity.

[THX-1138]

...So, would you over the weekend give some info on your W's upbringing, relations with parents, siblings, how she was in high school/college (eg, wallflower or party girl), etc? And any other things, traumas, etc since you've been M?...
...There is a cause for every effect, right? We are living in the effect (mlc), I would want to know the cause, or likely causes/theories.

So, would you do that for me?

Thanks!

Sure. But there's really nothing there...

W is the oldest of four siblings raised in thoroughly middle class neighborhoods by a married couple, still married after 52 years. Her Dad is a retired Lt. Colonel, a bit opinionated and headstrong, but a decent and supportive guy. W was raised in Missouri and Alabama. Attended a private Catholic high school which she enjoyed. She was not abused or damaged by nuns or priests. She feels her School was run by liberal Catholics and remembers it fondly. She is not religious at present and we have rarely attended church. We were married Episcopal.

She received Bachelors and Masters degrees in accountancy at a prominent Southern University.

Her family was and remains close-knit, though her parents rarely expressed physical affection for each other in front of the kids. Her Mom stayed at home full time, and dad was an active and engaged father. Social drinkers, no drugs, no drama. Both parents came from blue-collar Yankee families.

Her aunt died of cancer ten years ago, but they were not close and she lived on the other side of the country.

Her best friend's parents were killed by a drunk driver five years ago. They were in their 70's. Wife attended the trial to support her friend.

There have been no unusual traumas in our lives together. Old people getting older and stuff. Her mother is not healthy but she is 75. W was very close to my mom and spoke to her weekly until this. My mom is not talking to her now. (Thanks mom!)

W talks to everyone in her family frequently, and we vacationed with her family regularly until BD.

She was in a sorority in college, and was a popular and responsible student. Got her BS and MS in Five years. Also loves to party, but not to excess. She has had two serious boyfriends before me and is on good terms with them and everyone she has ever dated. She is gregarious, bubbly, and affectionate. Intelligent and sincere. She is occasionally shy, but generally she lights up in good company.

**********

Since the bomb drop, she and I have gotten along fine with each other. She has not called me names, or yelled at me, or quit doing housework, or quit paying bills, or any of the horrid things you guys have had to live through. We don't fight now, and we didn't fight much in the past either.

I realize that most of you have been the target of much mental brutality, dramatic horror, in-your-face other relationships, and other really strange behavior, but I haven't.

It's just that one day, my wife told me she didn't love me anymore, and that she had rented an apartment, and was moving out. She has abandoned as many responsibilities as possible but remains a good mother and has been responsible about paying bills and taking care of the kids.

[THX-1138]

...

There is a cause for every effect, right? We are living in the effect (mlc), I would want to know the cause, or likely causes/theories.

I think the cause is that she is afraid of getting old. And she feared spending the rest of her life with me, with the anchor of our creaky old house, our bills, our kids, our pets, and our dull middle-aged lifestyle dragging her down, down, down.

A possible trauma that just occurred to me - her hair is thinning. She has been grey for years but she always died it back, but recently it began to thin out a bit. Probably will be fine, but occasionally we see an old crone with really thin hair, and she fears that. But so do all women.

She wants to be hot, young, and fun. She wants to date single, exciting men, and thinks she will marry someone more exciting and richer than me. (We are middle class, but struggling.)

She wants to live alone in her brand-new spiffy-clean IKEA new apartment, in the hip section of town, surrounded by coffeehouses and near the old theater; to have her kids over as guests rather than residents.

When the kids are away, there is no sign of them in her place. They do not have their own rooms, and their stuff stays in my house. It is a one-bedroom apartment. S16 sleeps on a foldout couch and D14 shares the queen sized bed with mom.

She wants adventure. The sad thing is that my kids will only be home for a few more years, and we could have had the adventure she wanted.

[LoisB]

THX,

Wow! A person goes to take a bubble bath, nap and watch some cheesy shows on TV and just look what I missed on the boards!

Seems like the bottom line for the whole A/age dilemma is...an affair hurts. Whether the OW/OM is 20 or 60, it hurts. It's a pain I wouldn't wish on anyone because it rattles the very foundation of what you believe about life, marriage, love, friendship, family.

I've experienced the results of three affairs in my life. My grandfather's, my dad's and, now, my husband's.

When I was 7, my grandfather, who I learned later had been philandering for years, ran off to Florida with his secretary. Our family was turned upside down. I loved my grandpa and I couldn't understand what was happening, except I saw my dad cry for the first and only time. I saw my grandmother suffer horrible pain.

My mother did this wonderful thing for me...She told me that my grandfather was sick. He wasn't quite himself. Something was going on in his brain and he wasn't able to make good decisions. He didn't mean to hurt us all, especially me. I'm so grateful for that explanation.

When people hurt me in life, I'm able to step back (when I'm not reeling from the hurt and fear) and accept they aren't making good decisions because of something I can't understand.

Call it a disease, mental illness, MLC, bad parenting, lack of breastfeeding, whatever... These people are making poor decisions, but NOT with the intention of ruining my life. Even the mean MLC-er's, underneath it all, are ultimately just very sad people who deeply hate themselves for whatever reason.

A few weeks back, my daughters and I--who have been left with a sh!tload of work to do and an phantom AWOL MLC-er--well, we faced him. My girls expressed their feelings about the past two years and his absence and his poor decisions. For the first time, in all of this drama, I saw the sad, empty, shell of a human being that is described on the boards. He was, as my D11 intuitively observed, vacant. "Mom, dad, doesn't seem to know who he is or where he belongs." BINGO!!!!!!!

I can't imagine anyone doing this on purpose. I can't imagine your wife woke up one day and decided she would shake the grocery bag that was her life and just empty it in a pile at your feet and your children's feet. Something is driving this behavior.

All of this is so fresh still for you. This is a process and you can't rush it. Take today, feel what you need to feel, process all you want on the boards (I write it out too--it helps) and try to let her go to find her own way.

I've done all the ranting, raving, telling the family, acting the like the morality police, b!tching about the example set for our kids, ad nauseum. And, after you do it, you WILL feel nauseous because it doesn't work. It just doesn't. It will drive her deeper into herself.

Take care of your and the answers about what's next will come.

Much Love,

Heather

[Pudmuddle]

Nice rant Heather!

[LoisB]

I guess I did sorta go on and on! Hardy Har Har... :-)

[AJM]

Perhaps, Lois, but it's incredibly helpful to hear and see such things. The vacant look provides some sort of help to your kids. In many cases, you as the LBS or child, don't get to see that. Many hide it well, even from themselves.

THX, I don't take it personally. This is a safe place for the anger. Many of us here are trying to help. We try to help as somebody who's been there or been through much more. It hurts the same regardless and we know that.

But we also try to help you through the anger and disbelief. We try to help you re-frame the questions and ultimately the focus.

We know, because we've been there or are there in some cases.

Rant away. Express the anger. Express the sadness. But always ask the harder questions of yourself. It's hard to see it right now, but over time you'll see the value in that in helping you deal with the challenges you are currently seeing at this point in your life. As you change your focus, you'll see things differently and you'll come to terms with what is vs. what you feel should be. It's a tough road, but worth it. I promise

For starters, how about re-thinking the household situation and the workload? Are you really helping the kids by not having them participate in the household chores? Is there a way you can do both? Neither you nor the kids asked for this situation, but is there a way to help them get some stability and "normalcy" in their lives? Can helping around the house help them? I suspect so, but curious what you think.

I'll leave you with this thought. You're a thinker. A problem-solver. Have you ever run into something that couldn't be figure out?

Peace,
AJ