I have been lurking here for a few weeks now. I have read The Divorce Remedy and Divorce Busting;I have familiarized myself with most of the acronyms used on the forums, and with the methods used when confronted with a WAS/MLC.
I am 52, my wife is 49 and very attractive. She has aged gracefully, and I think she is lovely. And I have told her so frequently. I love her without limit. My kids are S16 and D14. They are wonderful and brilliant to me.
I work from home, and my wife works downtown. She makes almost twice as much as me, but I am in the house all the time for the kids, and I make breakfast, pack lunches, and cook a gourmet dinner six nights each week.
My 19 year marriage has largely been a happy one, until five months ago, when my wife dropped the bomb on me. We have always been the sort of couple who gets along well, enjoys being together etc. We can spend two hours talking non-stop on one of our regular Saturday morning walks.
It was during one of these walks that she told me she was "done", that she wanted out of the marriage, that she had rented an apartment, and hired a lawyer. I reacted without anger and for a couple hours we discussed the reasons for her decision.
There were three issues. First, I had been losing my temper with the children too often, particularly with my S16, who has a rather severe case of ADD/inattentive and who struggles to keep up in school. He tests in the 99 percentile on standardized tests, and attended a magnet school for exceptionally gifted children in middle school, but due to his ADD he is always behind on homework and he earns mostly C's in school.
The second issue is that I have a strong personality, and my wife feels that I am too controlling of her, and of the kids.
Third, we have occasionally argued in front of other adults at dinner parties (briefly - and without creating a scene). She is embarrassed by these incidents, and blames me for them.
I mention these issues because I believe that while serious, I don't believe they are issues one ends a 19 year marriage over.
She told me that she had not loved me for about six years, and had been faking it ever since. That when she told me she loved me in the past, that she hadn't meant it, and that the sex we'd had for years was without meaning for her. Since we have always had what I felt was a rather good sex-life (twice a week or more for 19 years), I found this difficult to accept as true. I'm not so distant, or so stupid, that I believe that she could (or would) bother to be faking orgasms for six years.
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But, I told her then and there, that I would stop the things that bothered her to the best of my abilities and I begged her to give me three to six months to prove myself, to remake myself, to begin our relationship anew.
After a few weeks of thinking, she decided that she had to move out. I believe she felt she'd made a decision, and wanted to follow through with it. To be true to herself.
I told her that since I was the problem, I should be the one to move out. That she should be with the kids. She refused. Said she needed to get out of the house, and to find out who she is. That she felt she'd been living under me for so long, she didn't know who she was anymore. She said that she never felt that the house was hers anyway, and that it was really my house.
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Then an odd thing happened. She moved in to her apartment, and we began dating each other regularly.
It was wonderful.
We went to new places, restaurants, and both developed an interest in our city's professional soccer team. We continued love-making regularly, and I felt that I might have dodged this D bullet. We were really in love again. We were holding hands, saying ILY and both of us meaning it. Felt like kids again.
We went merrily along this path for almost 3 months, when suddenly, she told me she no longer wanted to date me, or to have sex with me, or to see me regularly.
We continued the Saturday morning walks, and to see each other for an occasional beer together, but nothing more.
It was at this point that I discovered DB'ing, and have stopped the pursuit completely. I have gone mostly Dim, and see her only when she approaches me. This is usually during kid hand-offs, but our D14 plays on a soccer team so we see each other for one or two games per weekend. I made a point to sit apart last weekend. Not sure if that was a mistake.
She is always happy to see me, and always touches me. She is a very sunny person, and continues to stand near me, sometimes brushing me with her shoulders, touching my arm, occasionally brushing my arm with her breast. This is driving me nuts, as you can imagine. She knows she is doing this, and says she is aware she is a very touchy-feely person. She talks with her hands and frequently makes physical contact to make a point.
She has told me several times in the past month that she does not think she will ever move back, that I will be fine, etc. She honestly believes that, "the kids will be fine". She thinks we will both find someone new and that we will be fine. She has no freaking idea of the reality that lies in store for her.
She says her friends all say that she is happier now, and she seems to be gauging her own happiness by what others are telling her. This seems odd to me.
She is in denial about the financial disaster that awaits us ( we have been financing her $1200 monthly rent with our retirement income). She has no idea that her future Prince Charming will come with kids of his own, an ex-wife, in-laws, and lots of baggage - if he even comes at all. More likely she will date a few strange old men who will annoy her for the same reasons I did.
She has a group of 10-12 new friends from work that she socializes with. I have only ever met one of them. They are all younger than her, and either divorced, recently broken up, or gay. One of them is a Lesbian with two children from two previous marriages. The mind reels. They go out to happy-hours together, and to book club meetings, She hosted four dinner parties at her new apartment this Summer.
She says she doesn't miss me at all.
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Today, I found that she has filed for divorce. She emailed the news. I have not spoken to her, though naturally I have huge urges to break all of the DB'ing rules. To exhibit my anger, hurt, humiliation, love, etc. But instead, I am typing my story into this computer, and readying it for launch into the immortal internet.
I have several questions:
Things were going great back when we were still in the post move-out dating phase. (Her love language is Quality time and Words of Affirmation.) Now that I have gone Dim, I worry that she does not feel loved, which is making it easier for her to leave me. I believe she subconsciously understood this - and that is why she broke off the dating phase.
Now, should I simply let this divorce run it's course, or are some sort of drastic measures in order? Should I 180 and start pursuing? I have gone as dark as I can for the past week. Only communicating about the kids. Should I do something to forestall the divorce proceeding? If so, what?
Does this sound like a WAS situation, or is she having an MLC? Or both?
How dark should I get? Should I still go with her on Saturday morning walks and coffee after? Or should I do a 180 and withhold my friendship entirely? She still wants to be friends, of course.
I would appreciate any suggestions, or observations.
Thank all you so much for providing this BB and to Michelle for starting it all up.
Me:52 Wife:49 Married 19 years Son:16 Daughter:14 Bomb dropped with ILYBNILWY: May 2013 Wife moved out 2Jun13
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD, Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read. This is my ultra brand new and improved list of links.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
The stages of MLC as rewritten by HB from Jim Conway are a template which can only be laid over an MLCer's experience retrospectively. It's impossible to see the pattern until it has finished being laid or the crisis is complete.(nickel Cyrena). So do not be too concerned where your MLC'er is in this process. (Although my general guess is that they are in REPLAY)
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what she says and 50% of what she does.
I would not ask her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first. Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Now, should I simply let this divorce run it's course, or are some sort of drastic measures in order? Should I 180 and start pursuing? I have gone as dark as I can for the past week. Only communicating about the kids. Should I do something to forestall the divorce proceeding? If so, what?
Does this sound like a WAS situation, or is she having an MLC? Or both?
How dark should I get? Should I still go with her on Saturday morning walks and coffee after? Or should I do a 180 and withhold my friendship entirely? She still wants to be friends, of course.
No do not pursue, that is not going to end her MLC any quicker.
You do the same things whether it is MLC or WAS.
Personally I would go as DARK as possible. But that is me.
There is NOTHING you can do that is going to speed this process up. But you can slow it down by not detaching, by pursuing and begging and pleading.
So IMHO I want to do anything that will not slow the process down. It already takes forever so the best thing to do is to live YOUR life and stop worrying about her.
Thanks Cadet. I'll continue reading from your list.
New developments: Just found out my W started talking birth control pills two weeks ago. I had my own tubes snipped quite a while back, so clearly she isn't taking these for me.
She is going on a week-long trip in October to see old college friends and attend some college football games. About ten of her old buddies are renting a huge house at her Alma Mater. Wonder which old flame she plans to rekindle?
Had a talk with my kids, just to do a check-in and to see if they had any questions. My D14 volunteered that W is being very secretive about everything (BCPs, phone, texts, etc.), and that she is fixated on getting older, her thinning hair, and her wrinkles. ______________________
Question:
I keep hearing I need to GAL and work on my PMA. And that my MLCer has given me the gift of time. Well, frankly, I already have a pretty full life, socially and professionally. I'm a self-employed architect with lots of friends and more hobbies than I have time for. Now I have an entire household to keep clean and running all by myself. So that gift of time W gave me is largely eaten up by doing laundry, dishes, cooking, cleaning, and maintaining a large old house by myself. Meanwhile she lives in a tiny clean brand new apartment while sucking our retirement savings dry. Frankly, Getting A Life is beginning to sound a lot like moving on to me. Like my W is.
Now that I find she is about to put herself back on the market for other men (I know what BCPs are for), I have found myself thinking seriously about finding someone younger, hotter, and a lot less mental than W is right now. You know, someone who actually wants to be with me.
I'm not a believer in true love, or in soul mates. True Love is not about pitter-pats of the heart and buuterflies; True Love is about finding someone who makes you happy, and making a commitment to honor and cherish that person to the end, no matter what.
Now that my W has decided to cr@p all over her vows, my kids' futures, and my sanity, I find my patience is beginning to fray a bit. Realistically, I think the chances of a WAS/MLCer coming back are around 15%. And in order to even get those odds, I have to Stand for a year or three before I even find out if my time was wasted. And if she does decide to come back, We will then spend a couple more years in MC helping her to forgive herself, and for me to learn how to forgive her, and to learn how to live as a couple again.
So to summarize, it seems that I have low odds of succeeding in a game where even a winning hand doesn't look so great. And in the meantime, I will have spent years waiting for someone who has treated me with the ultimate disdain, and completely disregarded the feelings and financial security of her own children.
Sorry for being so negative. Feel free to comment.
Me:52 Wife:49 Married 19 years Son:16 Daughter:14 Bomb dropped with ILYBNILWY: May 2013 Wife moved out 2Jun13
Just because your wife has gone on birth control pills it doesn't necessarily mean she's thinking about hooking up w/someone. She may have some issues w/her cycle and wants to have it straightened out. Don't "assume" anything when it comes to the mlcer.
As for dating, I don't suggest it. Why? Because: 1) you are going to give your wife a ticket for "freedom of guilt". By dating, you are telling her you are okay w/what she's doing and you are moving on. 2) Please do not involve another person into the mix just because you are feeling lonely, etc. What happens if you and this person become very attached to each other and suddenly your wife wants to work on the marriage? The person you are dating is hurt. 3) Only begin dating if you are absolutely certain that you do not want to reconcile. 4) Your wife could turn the tables and file stating that you are committing adultery.
All I am suggesting is that you be sure that your marriage is over before getting involved w/someone else. I don't want to see any of the parties hurt and by getting involved w/someone else right now, will only cause you more confusion as to what you want at the end of the day. Be absolutely certain that you are ready to move forward and end your marriage.
Just my two cents.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
You remind me that it is important not to drag innocent people into the maelstrom my life has become. For a minute there, I was thinking like an MLCer, i.e, not considering the feelings of others, thinking of others as merely inanimate objects without feelings of their own, and acting on impulse without considering consequences. Child-like thinking.
But I should point out that I am an extremely empathetic man who is generally loath to cause harm. In fact, I had an MLC of my own in my early to mid 40's, so I can identify with some of the behaviors. My own MLC, however, did not result in affairs or divorce. Mostly, I just fantasized about doing bad things, but when push came to shove, I was able to walk away each time. In other words, I sinned in my heart, but not in deed.
I would not feel right about seeing anyone new now anyway. Heck, I haven't dated anyone new in 23 years. I wouldn't know how to begin. ______________
I do have to state that the wife's BCPs are likely intended for their actual purpose. Here's why: I found out about them through my D14. She says that W attempted to hide them, and then W lied about their purpose. Told D they were for incontinence. If she was trying to regulate her cycle, she would have told the truth, as my D14 knows about that stuff. So W told an unnecessary lie to her daughter which strongly indicates guilty feelings. Especially since the truth would have been simple and direct. Occam's razor.
At any rate, I understand that with MLCers, the eventual affair is almost inevitable, and frankly, the sooner she gets into one, the quicker the relationship with the OM will begin to sour. As rebounds always do. Obviously, I am not looking forward to this part of the ride, but I understand that it may be a necessary phase. In the sense that it might move things along, it might even be desirable.
[Since I have gone dark, I hope that I may be able to emotionally distance myself from the PA/EA sh1t she does. I hope so.]
I know she has been seeking EA's for a year or two. Last year, she told me about a few crushes she'd had (which I discounted as unimportant back then), and I know she scared off her old boyfriend last Spring. He is married, and she sent out some test feelers which he squelched. He is quite wealthy, which is humiliating to me, because I think she compares us and wishes she'd chosen him. But he lives a few thousand miles away so the OM will be someone else, I think. Doesn't matter.
Well, there's not much I can do about the potential/inevitable affairs anyway. It is going to hurt like Hell, but knowing about it before it happens might take away some of the sting. As the Brits say, "nothing to do but lie back and think of England."
Me:52 Wife:49 Married 19 years Son:16 Daughter:14 Bomb dropped with ILYBNILWY: May 2013 Wife moved out 2Jun13
I have been dark for about two weeks now. W just filed for Divorce a week ago and my emotions are pretty raw.
Situation: D14 plays in competitive soccer games on weekends. Before going dark, Wife and I typically attended all games together. Should I continue to go to all games and sit apart from her?
Should I talk with her if she approaches me at games? Should I allow her to sit with me? How should I act? Warm and sociable - or simply not available? Am I trying to make her feel isolated or what?
To use the actor's phrase, what is my motivation in this scene?
Me:52 Wife:49 Married 19 years Son:16 Daughter:14 Bomb dropped with ILYBNILWY: May 2013 Wife moved out 2Jun13
I have found myself thinking seriously about finding someone younger, hotter, and a lot less mental than W is right now.
Now that my W has decided to cr@p all over her vows, my kids' futures, and my sanity, I find my patience is beginning to fray a bit. Realistically, I think the chances of a WAS/MLCer coming back are around 15%. And in order to even get those odds, I have to Stand for a year or three before I even find out if my time was wasted. And if she does decide to come back, We will then spend a couple more years in MC helping her to forgive herself, and for me to learn how to forgive her, and to learn how to live as a couple again.
So to summarize, it seems that I have low odds of succeeding in a game where even a winning hand doesn't look so great. And in the meantime, I will have spent years waiting for someone who has treated me with the ultimate disdain, and completely disregarded the feelings and financial security of her own children.
Sorry for being so negative. Feel free to comment.
I've sometimes thought similar. Certainly we all have to figure out the best path for ourselves.
Since you're running the odds, tell me what the odds are that we'll find a compatible new partner and it will turn into a happy long term relationship? You know, like the one we had with our spouse. Also, how many years will it take for us to do this?
Don't allow your present pain to trick you into believing that a different pre-driven model is a guaranteed quick ticket to everlasting happiness. If you take a close look at the "Bail out and hook up with a new partner" option and run all the numbers, you may find it's not as appealing as it first seems. At least that's how the math works out for me... so far.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
ForeverYoung, thanks for that answer. That is good sound logic, something I really appreciate. My math works out about the same as yours...
New developments:
Just confirmed W has been in an EA with a coworker for months, and am confident that they went PA in mid-August, perhaps even before that. I know that she went to his house the evening after she told me she was never coming back to me.
I have been completely Dark with her for the last couple weeks. She texted me yesterday, asking, "We need to talk eventually. Is that going to be possible soon? I need to come over and pick up some winter clothes. Can do this when you are out but need to know when."
I answered that I will be out tonight so she can pick up her clothes then. But I ignored her request to "talk". After all, she filed D papers last week - I feel that the talking has been done for a while.
I fell she wants to "talk" in order to explain why she filed for D; to explain to me and to herself in that charmingly twisted MLC logic why she is justified in leaving me, and why this is all my fault. This will allow her to assuage her own guilt. Because MLC'ers can't have guilt getting in the way of the new fantasy life.
I do not plan to help her with that.
Questions:
Should I meet with her to "talk" as she has requested?
If I do, should I tell her I know about the OM? I really don't care about it that much, because I understand this affair is necessary for her to get through her MLC. I am learning about detaching with love.
If she tells me about OM, what should my reaction be?
Me:52 Wife:49 Married 19 years Son:16 Daughter:14 Bomb dropped with ILYBNILWY: May 2013 Wife moved out 2Jun13
