Since you went away....

[RosaLinda]

I'm missing my H a lot since he went to the other side of the world to find fulfilment in a cold water Moscow flat with his Russian Tramp. But he's emailed frequently, and strangely, his emails sound SO normal. As if he's away on a regular vacation with a regular friend, not a woman who desperately wants to marry him. And I'm on a journey too, finding myself and becoming strong. I am realizing with some help from my friends here that my H is darned lucky that I am still standing after four long years.

The falling leaves drift by the window 
The autumn leaves of red and gold 
I see your lips, the summer kisses 
The sun-burned hands I used to hold 
Since you went away the days grow long 
And soon I'll hear old winter's song 
But I miss you most of all my darling 
When autumn leaves start to fall
........"Autumn Leaves" Nat King Cole


I'm still at my friend F's dad's house in southern rural England, and have now met all of the parties in this overseas MLC drama. 

F's OM turns out to be an EA. She says they dated 30 years ago before she married her H, and they have remained friends. That sounds like Nero's sitch. 

F is very unhappy. She lost her job a few months ago, just turned 50, and then her son's best friend was killed in a motorcycle accident and her mother died this May. Ripe for a MLC huh? 

Now she has decided that she "loves her H but is not in love with him." The main problem seems to be that since his recent heart attack, her H is no longer interested in sex. I tried explaining that many heart medications can have that effect and his doctor may be able to prescribe something else. But she is not interested, because she decided that OM, who has been a supportive friend over the years, is really her "soul mate" and one true "love of her life." And she is determined to get him. 

OM is divorced and seems really nice and sincere, and does not seem like the type to cheat. F managed to seduce OM into sleeping with her, but just once. OM told F that having a PA would not be fair to her husband, which is why she left H and moved to her dads. But the OM is sticking to his guns and says F is still married!!!  So she's "working on him!" 

F's H seems like a nice guy, intelligent and also sincere. We got into a lively discussion about Syria, and F jumped all over him for disagreeing with me. She belittles every statement he makes, and sighs loudly and rolls her eyes to show how stupid he is. He seems bewildered and hurt by her attitude. After our visit, F demanded to know if I agree that H is horrible and that I agree that he is impossible to live with. I said he seemed nice and interesting. She insisted he was putting on a "charming front" and that he has put her down, been nasty to her, and never showed her any physical affection for the past 20 years! But he hugged and kissed both of us coming and going, so that does not seem very likely. F did that one-armed-hug-as-far-away-as-humanly-possible thing to her H that my H does to me. Her H looked so sad. 

I am really disappointed in F. We met on facebook and have messaged each other every day for 5 years. She knew me and my H pre-MLC, and has been very supportive of me standing for my marriage! She is still suportive, but when I stupidly suggested SHE might be having a MLC herself, she jumped all over me. She has finally woken up and deserves to be happy. And OM will make her happy. I tried to explain what I've learned from DBing, that happiness must be inside us, running away just brings your unhappiness and problems to a different place. But she insists this is "different and real". So I asked if she will D her H so she can have an honest relationship with OM and her answer was that she really does love her H. OMG OMG OMG! The insanity of it!

As I mentioned, I had an email from my H last Friday for our anniversary ( ). I got another today saying he (and RT presumably) are traveling to a city about 250 miles away to have his oral surgery. He says he must pay with a bribe of vodka. I looked up the town, and it has a big dental college, so I guess he's going there. He really needs major oral surgery, not a mere toith extraction, so don't think one bottle of vodka will do it, but who knows!!

Old thread Time is on our side

[job]

RL,
Please do not try to convince your friend that she may be in mlc. Why? Because she doesn't want to hear it and I can assure you, if you continue to try to talk to her about HER behavior, she'll distance herself from you. Mlcers do not like to have their pointed out to them or even remotely diagnosed as having mlc. The best thing you can do is listen and observe. You'll learn quite a bit if you can sit quietly while you are there.

Oh, they all can be supportive of our situations, but when it comes to them, it is very different. I've seen this happen many times. My GYN was very supportive when I advised him of my situation and he was telling me what his wife would do to him if he had a crisis. Well, 9/11 came along and when I went for my annual visit, low and behold...guess who was in crisis. My doctor! He came in wearing a tee shirt and shorts and talking a mile a minute about life is far too short and that he was getting a dog because he never had one as a child and a dog would love him unconditionally, etc., etc. Soon after that visit, he announced to his associate in the practice that he was leaving that day and would not be returning. That's how his crisis went down. So, yes, they can be critical of others, but can't see themselves in the mirror as to what's happening to them when the crisis comes a calling.

It will be interesting to see how your h makes out w/his dental procedures. Hopefully nothing will go wrong.

Enjoy your vacation and accept your friend as she is right now, even though you know she's not herself and doing something wrong. I would hate to see you lose the friendship over discussions of her mlc.

[MileHigh]

Many times in my life I've watched people act highly critical of other peoples behaviors, and then turn around and engage in the same. But it's always DIFFERENT in their own circumstances. I suppose we're all guilty of a little inconsistency in our actions in life, but it can be quite a contrast in situations like this. I found myself in a similar situation helping a friend who found herself being the OW. It's hard to help someone on the other side of the fence, and try not to be too judgmental, when trying hard to do do your own DBing.

[mizjjd]

Hey RL.

Once you learn what MLC, or just any old life-crisis looks like you begin to see it nearly everywhere. Its like "seeing dead people" in a way.

Remember that one in crisis CANNOT see their own reflection. And WILL NOT. Say prayers for her, listen and validate. You know the drill.

I am so very glad you are on a wonderful trip. You so deserve it!

Take care



Jaye

[Whiterose]

Maybe you can suggest this site, confidentionally, to F's H? He can start DBing too?

I hope your H's oral surgery is a success. Keep having fun and enjoying yourself

[AJM]

Maybe you can suggest this site, confidentionally, to F's H? He can start DBing too?

OMG, don't do that. Can't you just see it now? She loves her H, but he had an affair with her best friend, so she HAD to leave him and be with OM?? If you doubt me, ask me about some of the things I've learned since, from ex.

Your friend won't be told. Snodderly is right - you can't really say anything.

And I nearly died laughing when it was mentioned that now, "I see dead people". In some ways, it's so true. And it begs the question - is this so common that it's just how people are? I wonder sometimes...

AJ

[RosaLinda]

Hi everyone, thanks for checking in and for your support! 

Well we've been in London for the past three days. The hotel "cancelled" my reservation! They overbooked and I was unable to find another room. My friend and I stayed with another facebook friend, a solicitor who lives just north of London. It was great, she works for the Ministry of Justice, and took me on a tour. It was so interesting! Then yesterday we saw all the touristy areas of London - at Buckingham Palce we saw the changing of the guard. Big Ben, parliment, Trafalgar Square, shopping on Oxford street, the works! So much fun!

Jaye "Once you learn what MLC, or just any old life-crisis looks like you begin to see it nearly everywhere. Its like "seeing dead people" in a way."

It IS very much like seeing dead people, Jaye, what an apt description. My friend must be feeling more comfortable with me and keeps revealing more of her sitch, and the story keeps getting worse and worse. It makes me despair about my own sitch --it makes me wonder what my own H has been up to besides "falling in love with" RT. Judging by my friend's sitch, the EAs and PAs we know about might be just the tip of the iceberg.

Besides the man I told you about, she has a second man she is having an EA with. She tells me they have just kissed, never had sex, but they text each other many many times every day. The text sound has been grating on my last nerve. She dragged me over there to meet him. He's quite small and unattractive in looks AND personality; I guess she's "affairing down." They shared a deep soul kiss, which was uncomfortable, and then he made several disparaging remarks about his wife, doubly uncomfortable. Not nice. 

AND my friend's son, who just turned 18 earlier this month, is having a physical affair with his best friend's mother!!!! She is in her early 40s, is married and lives with her husband and 2 teenagers. My friend says it's their business, and if they are happy, why would she interfere and give her son motherly advice? Yikes! 

Rose "Maybe you can suggest this site, confidentionally, to F's H? He can start DBing too?"

A DBing forum IS what my friend's H needs, but I agree with AJ, Rose, that it wouldn't be a good idea to invite him onto our site! I don't really want my friend's H to learn all the details of my own H's philandering, plus it would hurt him to read about her philandering. 

So I am truly trying to just listen and validate my friend but she's making my head spin. She keeps asking if I think EA1 and EA2 "like" her. Like we were in high school! Poor woman, she seems so insecure in a way. She says she doesn't want to go back to Wight today, she has nothing to go back for. I wanted to point out her lovely husband, three sons, beautiful home, lots of friends, and two boy friends. But remembered to validate and just said "you're going through a tough time." Good practice for when I get home. 

I haven't heard from H since he let me know he and RT were taking the train to a city 250 miles away to have his oral surgery 5 days ago. He's emailed me almost every day until now, sometimes several times a day, and I'm getting worried about him. I spoke to S28 yesterday, and he hasn't heard from H either. I guess it's a bit self centeted of me but I feel hurt that my friend hasn't even bothered to ask me if I've heard from H. But we discuss EA1and EA2 endlessly. Ah well, that's life in MLC land

Well I'm off to take trains and buses to the airport. It's been a great trip, a nice break from DBing my H, with practice DBing my friend. Back to real life tomorrow!

Then this Sunday, I shall be meeting some DBing friends from this forum, AlbaMarie, Nero and uRworthy! Woo hoo! Now that will be a great break!

[job]

I'm glad you had a nice time and got a chance to visit the "tourist" attractions around London. What I like the most is that you got to sit in a seat and observe someone else going through a crisis. It was a gift in a way because it allowed you to see and hear just what goes on in their minds.

Travel safely.

[RosaLinda]

Thanks Snodderly! As you predicted, I loved loved loved London. And southern England is fabulous too! 

And you're right, my poor crazy friend's MLC has been a gift. I know her (knew her?) so well, and would not have believed it possible that she would whack out like this. Like your GYN right -- they are so supportive and horrified by whatoyou're going through. And then whap, your head is spinning around in disbelief at their own antics. 

Thanks for your advice to validate rather than try to convince her that what she is doing is wrong. We were really getting a bit tense with each other, all I could think of was the pain and destruction she is causing. But she could not see it. I have known her marital situation well for years, all of the normal problems, happy vacations to Turkey every year, pride in her H and boys, worry when her H had a heart attack. And now all of a sudden it turns out she has been desperately unhappy and unloved and emotionally abused for the past 20 years!? Holy mackeral

[MileHigh]

It's really and ugly business, all these affairs, isn't it? I've seen it from both sides, and watching these OP, it really is like a drug addiction, like they say. Changes their behavior towards themselves, their family and friends. We sure aren't doing something right as a species, regarding M and/or committed relationships. But, before I become cynical...

So glad you're having a good time. Went to London and a few other parts of England when I was 17, and I've always wanted to go back.