Need help applying DR (super long newcomer story)

[In Irons]

SM34,

Great insight. My more recent 180 behaviours are more about organizing the finances and such, which is more manly, I guess, but I'm still doing lots around the house. I love your example of turning it around and you're right. I'll start to also focus on the other things you mentioned, like fun times and developing a better bond.

Thanks!!

[MrBond]

How much of DR have you read? Be honest.

[etc]

Irons, thanks for sharing your sitch. I had the same thing going on at our home before my W left. Toward the end I actually encouraged her to leave b/c I thought it was important to validate her unhappiness living at home rather than argue about it. You can't try to talk someone out of their own unhappiness.

Prepare for your W's departure as it sounds imminent. I did a lot of dishes and housework before my W left and it certainly didn't sway her from leaving. I made up my mind though that I was doing this work b/c I wanted to do it - no more covert contracts or expectations from others. 180s are for you. Have no expectations. Don't be manipulative.

WAWs check out of house chores altogether right before they leave b/c they've got their eyes plied on the new place and how great it's going to be to get out. They've already left mentally. My W didn't even clean up the messes she made in the process of moving out. I did mention to her that I thought that was rude and she apologized.

Maybe think of it this way: WSs NEED to leave so they can figure themselves out. If you love someone, set them free. You don't need anyone to make you happy. Show her that you can be happy on your own b/c you can.

I'm still a newbie and it's early, but my W and I are getting along better now that we're living apart. We'll see where it leads next. Perhaps there's a certain point where the unhappy spouse has to leave if there's any real hope of R. Stay positive! You're not alone!

ETC

[Tallula]

Ok, I can't take it anymore. SM34, STOP with the manly/attraction stuff!!!

Before I found out about my H's infidelities, I will tell you right now that one of the ONLY complaints I had of him was his unwillingness to do anything INSIDE the house. He did all of the outside chores, and is seriously about the manliest man you will ever meet. Holds doors open, yes mame, you name it. BUT I LOST IT!! Last year I just stopped doing everything. I felt so unappreciated and unloved. Now I've let him back into the house, and watching him bathe the kids, help me fold laundry and do dishes on occasion...make me want to jump him. For real. That is not a silly excuse. It is a valid complaint!! No one should take on all of the chores and do anything and everything to appease their spouse, but helping out goes a long way.

END RANT!

Now, In Irons...keep up the 180s and GALs. Anser Bond, he rocks! How much of the book have you read.

[Tallula]

Oh, I meant to add, while that was one of my only complaints, I was so tired of it and was struggling with wanting to keep at the M.

[In Irons]

Thanks to all for your thoughtful replies. I was initially offended at MrBond's comment as I have read DR carefully, stopping at chapter 7 (taking stock) since I wasn't at that stage yet. I have also read Michelle's articles on the site (plus I try to read Sandi's rules every day). But I realzed that in agreeing to SM's suggestions, it appears I am agreeing to some non DB, non Sandi "stuff".

When I thought about his comments of creating fun times, I was thinking about activities with the family or just the kids. As a depressed person, I need to be more cheery as a sad S is an easy S to leave. As for the bonding, I was thinking more about trying to start to rebuild rapport with W through benign interactions and not discussing R or being sad and such. But I suppose any attempt at contact is non DB - correct?

As I said, I have read the first 6 chapters and am trying to apply them consistently. I am screwing up often, but trying hard not to. Thanks MrBond for trying to keep me honest - I don't know if my explanations make sense.

Etc, thanks for sharing your sitch - I want to say it's comforting, but I dread W leaving. I still believe that if you uproot the family, esp the kids, tell friends and family you're separated, etc., there's no going back for me. Am I being too stubborn on this? If we were 20, dating and childless, I might think differently.

BTW, the housework is being dropped badly, which is another reason I'm stepping up. It was a specific complaint in MC, so trying to address it, but agree with others here that housework alone will probably not save most marriages. I wish W would find that attractive and jump me But, Tallulah, I will keep doing it for many reasons. Thanks for your encouragement.

This community is massively helpful, especially as I don't have anyone I can talk to (I have friends and family, but am ashamed to admit all if this). Thanks again to all!

[uRworthy]

Hey IR. I know this is so hard and confusing for you.

It is very fortunate that you found this site. There are some amazing people here.

And there will be different opinions. While most of the sitches are similar, there are also many differences.

So take what feels right, and discard the rest.

The general rules are these: Detach, GAL, do what works, stop doing what doesnt.

When you are ready, you need to let your w go. That doesnt mean you are giving up, or that you dont care. It just means that you are letting her walk her journey, while you walk yours.

Keep posting and questioning.

Mr. Bond does rock.

Hang in there.

[MrBond]

Thanks everyone.

" I was initially offended at MrBond's comment as I have read DR carefully, "

I'm not exactly sure what you found offensive. I just asked if you read the books. There are many people on here who claim to have read them, yet ask about subjects that the books cover in detail. Those people don't want to put in "the work" and are looking for a quick fix.

You should read the whole thing so you can get an idea of how the whole process works. In your case, the depression is a major factor that's holding you back. Can you over come it? Of course you can.

[SM34]

MrBond is very knowledgable, and one of the best resources here for self examination, and learning to be compassionate. Listen to him, he is trying to help you.

Tallula is a great resource also, and belped me greatly to develop and expand on my 'faults' as a man.

One comment though for Tallula. You were not leaving your husband, he was leaving you! So the fact that he was not helping much with your chores was not enough reason for you to leave. So he must have been attractivr to you enough to overlook that, therefore supporting my argument that doing dishes and laundry will not bring your wife back, because the problems are much more fundamental than that.

I would also like to add that you are looking at the chores through the eyes if someone who was pregnant through their sitch, and husbands with a,pregnant wife or with small children (or both) DEFINITELY should be helpng out! That is VERY attractive!

Michelle says to make yourself more attractive to the WAS, and be a spouse only a fool would leave.

Sandis rules say to be as attractive as possible, in appearance and in other ways.

So its not counter to DBing to work on your attractiveness. And for husbands that is by exhibiting man traits! Being strong, standing tall in the face of adversities, handling stress without whining, etc..

[labug]

I agree with Tallula and I'm a woman.

But I think the crux of the matter might be the lumping of all women together and saying "this is what women want." I have a lot of women friends and work with many women in my professional life and we do have similarities, one of those being we like to have our needs met. Here's the part that's missing in this manly traits theory, even though we share many of the same needs they may be in a very different priority hierarchy.

In Irons, if you want to know what some women think, read some of the women's threads. Also, pay attention to your wife when she tells you what she needs or recall what she's told you in the past, don't brush it off as unimportant because you don't agree. By validating needs, you validate HER as a person, and that is something we all share.

Make yourself attractive to YOUR wife.