WAW doesn’t seem to have an interest in repairing marriage; young kids are involved. I'm lost, distraught and majorly depressed and having a hard time putting DR techniques into practice. I am terrified of losing my W, time with my kids and all the other impacts of D.
Long version:
I'm not sure where to start my story, so I think I'll start when the bomb went off.
Oddly, it starts with a job change. About a year ago, I started a new job, after many, many years in a job I hated. The old job and various other stressors in life (finances, kids, previous divorce, etc.) had gradually built up and eventually led me to become depressed. With counselling and anti-depressants (both of which I did reluctantly due to the urging of my W, which I now thank her for) and a lot of hard work on my part, I got back to perhaps 70% of my old, cheery self after about 2 or 3 years of depression. The excitement of a new job topped me up to 100% or maybe higher. The combination of spending some time away from my kids and housework (I was home 24/7 with them in my old job since I worked from home) and a new employer where my experience was valued, helped complete my recovery from the depression.
So it was with great surprise that one weekend, a few weeks into the new job, my wife (with whom I have been with for 10 years) essentially told me that she was angry with me for daring to come home happy, assuming that it was solely because I was away from her and the kids. After some discussion, I got the famous ILYBINILWY speech. She told me she had “checked out a long time ago”, had been planning to leave me for some time and was just waiting until I was “better”.
This came completely out of the blue, as I thought things were pretty good. I knew that through my depression of 2 or 3 years that I hadn't been a great husband, as the symptoms of depression (lack of sex drive, disinterest in socializing, general grouchiness, etc.) aren’t good spouse qualities. But there had been many great years before that and the prior year or so (after completing the counselling and anti-depressants) had been good (or so I thought). Throughout, I was always engaged with the kids and tried my best with my wife, supporting her in re-starting her career (post kids), getting fit (post kids) and spending time with her friends and hobbies even though it meant I didn’t have time for either (I would watch our young children to accommodate her activities). I always told her I loved her, tried to be intimate as often as my depression and meds would allow (before the depression, that was not an issue), but even when I was at my worst, I thought I was an OK husband.
During my initial depression, I promised my W that I would do whatever I had to do to get back to myself so I could be a better husband and father. With her encouragement, support and patience, I did get better. Unfortunately, after having achieved that and being proud and excited about my achievement and our future, it all came crashing down in one moment.
Once she broke the news to me, I sank into a deep depression, orders of magnitude worse than my previous bout. The first time, it was just about being overwhelmed with life, which in retrospect seems trivial. This time, it was based on my entire world falling apart, losing the woman I love, losing time with my kids and everything else that goes along with that. I went back on anti-depressants, returned to counselling and read everything I could on curing depression and marital problems. Nothing seemed to be able to cure the funk that I was in or our R. There was a period of time in there when I was seriously considering suicide as an option and a few times when I came very close to taking my life.
As I’m sure many have done here, I engaged her in endless discussions to try to understand and convince her to change her mind. She did agree to MC, but beyond that, she did not seem to have any interest in fixing things. But when I talked about me leaving, she didn't seem to want that either. Eventually, she chose to sleep in separate rooms (about 4 months ago) and I have been stuck in limbo. Every night, when I sleep alone, it is a painful reminder that I have been rejected.
Eventually, through the MC, I came to understand that I was in a no-win situation. In essence, my W wanted to start out again as friends and see if I could be the same guy she fell in love with. That's what I had finally achieved months earlier in beating my original depression, immediately after which (instead of celebrating with me and letting me finally enjoy happiness again) she chose to tell me that she wasn't in love with me anymore. But in the depths of the current depression, I have not been able to be that person; only someone who cries constantly, hides from everyone and wants to talk endlessly about our R and, of course, I never get any signals that she wants the marriage to work. The closest I would get is "I'm not sure" or "I don't know". The MC said that her attending MC sessions was a good sign, but I felt (and still feel) that it was out of guilt so she could say she tried.
Any time I would make some minor progress, I would let her know I was doing a little better and she would cut me down somehow (like suggesting that we should have a trial separation, saying something hurtful or backing away from a hug). This would bring me back down, usually even lower, since I had the additional disappointment of losing the progress I had made. All in all, it seems that she wants to force me to leave so that it isn't her choice. The times we talk about D seems to lift her spirits.
On top of all this, she is very secretive; never leaving her phone unattended, spending a lot of time texting to unknown parties and she leaves for hours at a time for a 30 minute errand, usually in the evenings. It makes me feel like there is an OM, but she denied this when I asked her (as most would of course). That conversation went as well as one might suspect, since she felt I was assaulting her character, which I guess I was, but I was just grasping for any reason to explain all this. The worst part is that I have become paranoid to the point that I think my good friend might be the OM. For no reason that I am aware of, he has pretty much stopped contact with me, but sees her all the time as our kids are in activities together (including some road trips to sports activities with her, him and our kids when I am unavailable for work or other reasons). Recently, any time I see him, he is very awkward with me and a derogatory text I sent to him about my W (which was ironically the only one I have ever sent), she somehow saw (she said she was standing beside him when the text came in and saw it, but I can't see people's text messages even if I'm right beside them). And I had been confiding in him earlier about my marital issues, so if it’s true, it's a quadruple whammy, because I will have lost a friend, the only person I feel I can talk about this, the only person I used to be able to talk to about anything and my W (I know that technically that’s only 2 people, so maybe only a double whammy). Of course, all of this could be complete paranoia on my part.
You can imagine that all of this has left me a complete mess, which it has. Despite my admittance that I have now had two bouts of depression, I am normally a happy person. I'm successful in business, am well liked by everyone (except my W and exW, I guess) and thought until now that I was a good husband and father. Anyone who knows me would be shocked that I am depressed and anyone who knows our family would be shocked that we are having any marital problems - we seem to others to be the perfect family.
The difficult part in all this is that I am still madly in love with her, as I have been since the day we met. She is smart, funny, kind, beautiful, a great mother, etc. She has flaws, too, but they’re not important and/or I don’t notice them (other than the “not liking me” thing). I have always truly felt that she was my one and only soulmate and considered myself very lucky to have found her. She brought back my trust in people (and women in particular) after a terrible first marriage due to (ironically) my exW’s depression and related mental illness. Unfortunately, due to the first bout of depression and some of her own insecurities, she thinks the opposite (in terms of how I see her). She thinks I don’t like her and that I don’t find her attractive, that I think she’s dumb, etc. I have NEVER said anything derogatory to her to make her think that. It is solely based on my behaviour when I was depressed (and I understand why she would feel that way at the time). But now that she understands it was based on the depression, she refuses to change that view, despite much evidence to the contrary.
So how can I want to stay with someone who doesn't want or value me? In trying to fix things and putting up with being treated like an outcast, I feel like a loser and someone who has no respect for themselves (which I suppose is consistent with depression). And of course, through this process, I have wildly vacillated between loving her and hating her, so even if she woke up tomorrow morning and said everything was good, I’m not sure where my head and heart will be.
There's a lot more that I could add as you could imagine in trying to summarize 10 years, but I fear I have written too much already for anyone else to read.
As for how I came to this site, I read DR within the last couple of weeks and have read Michelle’s articles, watched her videos and read many posts on this site. I am struggling with the notion of not talking about the R, since I am a logical person and want to reason everything out. I'm equally challenged to "act as if" and appear happy when I am crushed inside. Almost a year of constant explicit rejection has left me a shell of my former self.
Last week, my individual counsellor told me that I should make arrangements for separation / divorce as he thinks the situation is hopeless, so about a week ago (and yes, sadly, I had read much of DR at that point), I talked to my W about D. It wasn't the first such discussion, but was the most specific in terms of discussing immediate next steps. I felt good for a couple of days in the sense that I was taking control of the situation, but after that, I started to think about the reality of D (especially since I have been there once) and was terrified. I have seen what it has done to one child first hand and others second hand. So I told my W that I was still prepared to D if that's what she wants, but it's not really what I want, for myself and for the children. I know that all of that was very anti-DR of me, but I guess I was trying a 180 of sorts. The upsetting thing is that she seemed to be OK with it all (a little sad, but not distraught) and when I asked if that's what she wanted, I got the "I'm not sure" answer. This answer hasn't changed through dozens of conversations, lengthy heart-felt notes, or even when I was on the verge of suicide. BTW, I know that admitting to contemplating suicide makes one seem crazy and I don't feel that I am, but anyone who has been truly depressed can probably understand (and those who haven't never will).
Anyhow, I'm not sure what I hope to get in writing this; at a minimum, I suppose that it is cathartic, although I can’t say I feel any better for writing it all down. Best case, I guess I get some response here to feel like I'm not alone in this. I'm sure anyone being on this end of the deal knows how overwhelmingly painful this is - my heart has been shattered into a million pieces over this. To all those people, I wish you the best of luck in repairing your R and, more importantly, yourselves.
Not alone at all. I fully understand the depression.
After my 1st divorce years ago, long before I heard about DB, I had the same problem. Same thing in 2007 with current W. I've done a little better this time (she's a WAW again....). I still need to work on the depression - it's keeping me from being able to concentrate on work, and if I lose my job, this sitch is going to get far, far worse.
I also work from home, and that in itself can be enormously stressful and difficult for the family dynamic. Also, I am very analytically, and want to reason it out - emotions don't often respond well to reason! I also way, way, way, over-analyze everything and every contact or interaction.
Also, this time around, when my wife left, it was right as we were getting ready to move into a new house, so we've been under a lot of stress and busy trying to get two houses fixed up, one to sell and one to move into. And it was on the heals of 2 very stressful years of work. I think this kind of thing cropping up around major life changes is probably common.
So, I hope it helps to know that you're not alone. And please contact someone if you really feel suicidal!
Thanks so much for the reply - I checked a few times today and had resigned myself to perhaps not getting a reply, which is OK, but it's much nicer to get some feedback.
I hear you on the work concentration part - some days I just stare at the screen, but I have, for the most part, been able to compartmentalize things and keep going in my new job. I also over analyze everything and want to solve everything with logic (I'm a software guy).
Thanks for the support and encouragement. The suicide stuff is in the past now (for good I hope) and I feel like I'm on the mend, but it's really slow and painful.
Good luck in your own situation and much appreciation for your note.
So it was with great surprise that one weekend, a few weeks into the new job, my wife (with whom I have been with for 10 years) essentially told me that she was angry with me for daring to come home happy, assuming that it was solely because I was away from her and the kids. After some discussion, I got the famous ILYBINILWY speech. She told me she had “checked out a long time ago”, had been planning to leave me for some time and was just waiting until I was “better”.
Unfortunately your W probably checked out long before you started to pull out of it. Once a WAS checks out, when they finally drop the bomb they will make EVERYTHING sound like a contributing factor, even things like your happiness and that you have a good job. That's just script.
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But there had been many great years before that and the prior year or so (after completing the counselling and anti-depressants) had been good (or so I thought).
The WAS will rewrite history in their head, they focus on all the negative stuff that ever happened in the M and forget the good stuff. We call it being in the fog. Don't be surprised to hear things like "I was never happy" and "we never should have gotten married". Read Sandi's DB 180 tips (sticky at top of forum) and live those tips. It covers things like never trying to convince the WAS that there were good times. Don't drag out photo albums to prove to them they were happy. Because right now she doesn't believe it. She may eventually come out of the fog, but not anytime soon.
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but even when I was at my worst, I thought I was an OK husband.
And you probably were. So was I, and many others here. Yet here we are! The thing is, you may have been good but make yourself GREAT. Become the spouse only a fool would leave.
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This time, it was based on my entire world falling apart, losing the woman I love, losing time with my kids and everything else that goes along with that. I went back on anti-depressants, returned to counselling and read everything I could on curing depression and marital problems. Nothing seemed to be able to cure the funk that I was in or our R. There was a period of time in there when I was seriously considering suicide as an option and a few times when I came very close to taking my life.
I'm glad you didn't act on that, but believe me, I know that place. I was there too. Lots of us can relate. It DOES get better. I'm over a year since BD, am separated and only see my kids every other week, but I am happier than I've been in many years. You'll get there too.
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Every night, when I sleep alone, it is a painful reminder that I have been rejected.
Turn the negatives into positives. You get the whole bed to yourself! Stretch out and enjoy it! After my W left I felt so lonely at home by myself. Now I relish that time alone. I do projects, I go work out, I watch TV and play videogames in my underwear, I belch loudly, I stay up late tinkering with the motorcycles. A lot of being miserable or being happy is simply a state of mind.
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I never get any signals that she wants the marriage to work. The closest I would get is "I'm not sure" or "I don't know". The MC said that her attending MC sessions was a good sign, but I felt (and still feel) that it was out of guilt so she could say she tried.
You are right, and your MC is wrong. It's not a good sign, she's just going so she can check it off her list of "things I tried to save the M but that just proved it's really over". She doesn't want to work on it. She's just going through the motions. It takes most sitches well over a year before the WAS starts showing interest again. Sometimes it's years. I went into this thinking it was a timeline of months, but in my time here I've never seen a reconciliation that happened that fast.
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On top of all this, she is very secretive; never leaving her phone unattended, spending a lot of time texting to unknown parties and she leaves for hours at a time for a 30 minute errand, usually in the evenings.
Very typical WAS behavior.
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It makes me feel like there is an OM, but she denied this when I asked her (as most would of course).
There probably is an OM, there almost always is. It may be physical or it may be emotional, but either way it's a huge roadblock to reconciliation. Most WAS's don't consider it an "affair" if it's purely emotional, so they're being honest (in their eyes) when they say there's no affair. But an EA is just as damaging as a PA.
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In trying to fix things and putting up with being treated like an outcast, I feel like a loser and someone who has no respect for themselves
That's where DB'ing comes in. Through DB'ing you can find yourself again, you can rebuild your self-esteem and feel good about life and even your sitch regardless of how it ends up. DB'ing is all about working on YOURSELF.
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I am struggling with the notion of not talking about the R, since I am a logical person and want to reason everything out.
So am I! But believe me, when you quit focusing all your energy on your M and W and instead focus it on you, that's when the real healing starts.
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I talked to my W about D.
Read Sandi's tips. Don't do that again. Don't ever initiate M, D or R talks. Keep all convo's light and fluffy.
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I got the "I'm not sure" answer. This answer hasn't changed through dozens of conversations
The more you push the more "sure" she will become that D is the answer. Quit the pressure.
I checked a few times today and had resigned myself to perhaps not getting a reply, which is OK, but it's much nicer to get some feedback.
Keep posting in small increments, once you get off moderation your thread will bump to the top when you post to it and more people will see it and reply.
In Irons, sorry to hear that you find yourself here but it is absolutely the best place to be under the circumstances.
It's hard but you really do need to try and give your W as space as you possibly can. Many of us have been right where you are at and have struggled through many of the same emotions.
Focus on yourself and the things that you can do to make yourself the most attractive option. In the end, it's really the only thing that you have control over anyway.
I believe that you said you have read DR. What things do you want to do in terms of GAL activities? Are there things that you are aware of that you would like to change about yourself?
If so, start small and post a couple of those here...... It's an initial step in the journey.
Stay strong!
Me-48,W-51 M-22,T-24 S- 18,16,9 Feb-Jul '11 Away from Home, after initial B date Aug-Dec '11 Back at Home on couch Dec '11-now Same bedroom, room mates only Dec '14 W files initial D paperwork
Im so sorry your here, but your far from alone. Try to always keep in your mindthis cant be fixed right now, but you can break it forever. If you cant slow this down your just causing it to end faster.
Get yourself something to do. Anything for now. You will drive yourself nuts if you dont get some outlets, nothing your wife is doing/done will make sense to you for the near future. So dont worry about what shes doing, just focus on what you can do to take care of yourself. Be ready for a long and rocky journey. Dont worry about what kind of mother she is, cause she wont be one of much. Be there for the kids. And be ready for a million kicks to the groin, so learn to dodge.
I wish I could pass you a red or blue pill and make it all better, sadly thats just gonna happen. Use this post to follow up, vent on a bad day, or come get some advice from some amazing ppl/vets that have this down to a science.
Dont get discouraged when things seem bad, also dont read into things that seem positive or you'll just be setting yourself up for more disappointments. Its a long long journey, and you just opened the door of the car.
Thanks for the replies and solid advice - I will try to adhere to all of it. AnotherStander, thanks particularly for your thorough and thoughtful reply. I have read through it a few times now.
I will write more tonight (don't want to lose my new job), but in the meantime I just want to convey the great feeling I get from these messages and feeling part of a community (albeit one none of us probably want to be in). Thanks again and I'll write more later.
I knew you were a software guy! ;-) Me, too. Yeah, I really need to get focused on work or I won't have a job... And I don't live somewhere conducive to commuting to an IT job. Heck, I don't even have a car right now, and the rental runs out in a week! Anyhow, I'll post my woes somewhere else. But I'm glad you got some replies here to bolster you.
