Saying "I'm sorry you feel this way" to my W made her upset. Is there another statement to use other then that. It made her feel like I was discounting her feelings when I said that
My W reacted that way sometimes too, though how I delivered it mattered(s)...if I was truly meaning it empathetically, then it was okay.
If I was annoyed, not REALLY meaning it, maybe some sarcasm laced in...or was a "cookie-cutter" response to her...then she felt the way your W does.
Our W's know us VERY well, especially the non-verbal and also tone of voice things..seems they are very much more attuned to that stuff naturally, than us guys...so my question is...how do you deliver it? Be honest with yourself here...if a "canned" response, then W WILL pick up on it, guaranteed.
That said, yes, it is easy to over-use it, they DO catch on...lol.
Some alternatives I use:
That must be tough...
You have so much going on, wow...
I have no clue as to what that feels like (this is especially good for things I REALLY have no clue about, like hormonal flux and such).
Everyone's sitches are unique, so you have to test and figure out which things work in your sitch, and keep them REAL...nobody feels validated by a canned response, delivered as a canned response...ya know?
Make up your own, you can do it! T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Everyone's sitches are unique, so you have to test and figure out which things work in your sitch, and keep them REAL...nobody feels validated by a canned response, delivered as a canned response...ya know?
One other thought...imo, this is the danger in any "program" or list of "tactics" ... you eventually get to the canned response stage, following the "script" without really thinking about it. This is why I think we all must find our own unique ways dealing with our unique sitches, and really, really mean them and be present in them in the moment.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
One other thing, PON, is that it took me quite a while to learn how STOP thinking of how I was going to respond to W while she was talking, venting, spewing, and just REALLY listen to what she was saying, 100% focused on her, and respond (if I responded) "naturally" ... its a learned skill, I think, requiring lots of practice and trial and error...I refer to things like that list I posted to you earlier quite often still to keep it front and center in my head.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Gabby sorry you didn't offend me. I appreciate everyone's feedback. Do I feel like your pushing D a little yes. Then again I could say the same thing about 25 and others. Offended. Nope not all. If I could stand up to my W like I did here though I would be much better off. Tomorrow is a big day for me.
T the last discussion I had with her about 2 months ago was so scripted and she called me out on it right there and then. I wasn't ready to talk to her. She literally said "I'm checking out of this session PON"
This is why I ask so many questions so I don't do that again. Part of it was me trying to find the right words and dancing around the egg shells etc..
For the most part, I don't/didn't, unless it has to do with the kids or house stuff ("business"). I did initiate early on and got my hands and forearms burned enough that I learned, and stopped (aside from "business").
But after lots of others threads (archive and current) and advice here, and finally "getting" the dim/dark concepts, and WHY it is a good, tested method, I stopped initiating and let her lead. It gave her the space she wanted and took pressure off her, regarding me, so I looked "slightly less the enemy", so to say.
But, after getting my bearings, the few times I did initiate was mostly to drop "truth darts", or to let her know my boundry had been crossed...This was how I rolled for the most part for 18 out of 24 months or so. Sometimes W would peek out and we had more "normal" interactions for a while, but mostly the "dim dance" was "normal".
I just remembered something my IC said to me back in Feb 2012 that helped shake my into understanding, a wonderful 2x4...
"Your W doesn't want to talk? Really? So effin' what. She doesn't want to talk, so, go find something else to do with yourself then...you're a big boy, right?"
And this ^^^^ also plays into your W's perceptions of you being "just another kid to tend to" PON, I imagine.
My IC can be the female counterpart to a few male vets here at times...lol...
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
T thanks. For some reason I am relating to your posts more then others. Can you comment on some examples of boundaries that you threw some truth darts out at.
"But, after getting my bearings, the few times I did initiate was mostly to drop "truth darts", or to let her know my boundry had been crossed..."
One boundary that is being crossed by me that I am having a hard time getting my balls up to address is her texting "guy" friends and hiding it from me. I don't like it. I feel its disrespectful and rude
Truth Dart = When W was approaching emotional abuse of one of our sons one time when she was particularly out of control of her thoughts and feelings, I called her on it, calmly, respectfully, but firmly, using the correct words (YOU are approaching emotional abuse with S right now, S and I are going out for a while and give you some space to calm down) and took S away for a couple hours, in spite of her begging us not to leave her alone.
or,
W, when I am asking you something, or we are talking about something, and you do not even look up from the computer to look at me, I find that rude and disrespectful to me. If this behavior continues, I will leave the room and we can discuss this later when you are ready to focus on what we are talking about" ---sort of...it was a long time ago, don't remember exactly what I said...lol.
Boundary = After I built W her own computer to keep her and her "activities" off of the kids' (she wasn't very good about deleting things and closing out of IM sessions/programs), she wanted to put the computer and webcam in our MBR........I told her no, that she wasn't going to do what she does in OUR MBR, that I can't stop her from doing what she is doing, but doing it in our MBR was not going to happen.
If you read through my threads you'll find some more...but...I used them VERY sparingly, only when absolutely necessary.
As far as the texting...yes, it is very disrespectful and rude, but it seems to be a "normal" thing mlc'ers...MY choice was to just ignore (best I could, it got easier as time went on) what W was doing online, etc. I realized that I could not control her, and psychologically it was how she was trying to work out some of her issues, rightly or wrongly, it was a path she thought was worth taking. And with all the advice here, especially in mlc-land, to let it run it's course, I chose to listen to that advice, because as 25yrs pointed out to you in her post last night (which triggered some things for me as well, I think there are similarities in our sitches with our W's), the option of D wasn't one I wanted (still don't, but am "okay" going there now), so ignoring it, seeing the EA/PA/cyber stuff for what it was, a band-aid, was the most logical course of action.
PON, I would suggest stop worrying about progress, communication, interaction so much...I do get it, I was the same way early on in my sitch, it didn't help...in fact drove W further away. Please get clear on YOUR goal, then ask if any actions you take will further your goal, before you take them or say something.
There is no quick and easy way out of this journey...just through. Get out and do more, I love it that you are doing open mic (musician here too). I will repeat what my IC said to me (and Bond, and others to you):
"Your W doesn't want to talk? Really? So effin' what. She doesn't want to talk, so, go find something else to do with yourself then...you're a big boy, right?"
Every time I would get worked up, anxious or whatever about W and I's lack of comms, or her reaction/actions to me, I would repeat that phrase ^^^^ in my head, over and over. Now, it's no big deal if she wants to talk or not, I accept that is where she is at the moment...not my problem. I got stuff to do, life to live....
Make sense (I hope!)? T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
