Keep on, keeping on!

[reb9597]

I guess this would technically be After phone coaching session #3. Ready for a positive reminder!

Last thread:

After phone coaching session #2

@ AS - I really appreciate your reassurance that it's normal to have ups and downs in feeling done. For me, I guess it only lasts for a little while for now. When the feeling lasts for an extended period of time I'll have a better gauge on things. Makes me think of WAH, how they have to totally dissect their feelings. It's feels hopeless they'll ever be turned back on.

I feel like I'm learning another definition of expectations now. Because I thought I was doing well monitoring my expectations because I wasn't waiting for H to respond in this way or that. But even waiting for movement in general is an expectation. So I'll need to continue working on that.

You're right, AS, the hope that is exhausting is most likely related to expectations too. I have hope for my family as a whole, especially for my kids. The picture of my/our future is still as a family unit. But I need to get to the place where I can be authentic in my actions regardless of any future outcome with H. I think I've accomplished a lot by resolving a lot of anger, by accepting what I cannot change, by not reacting to situations in anger and establishing friendship. But if this goes south, I will feel terribly used by H. My efforts to heal with him and our dds will help him in his goal of reconnecting with girls. But I'll get nothing out of it, except the satisfaction of knowing I did my best and learned to evolve. I need that to be enough...

@ IO - I like the idea of having a good reality be enough. How do you let go of what would be a better reality? Expectations again...

@ labug - Why do I feel I'm carrying all the hope for the family? I guess I'm assuming my vision of our family restored is mine alone. I want to be united in our M in the future. And I assume he doesn't want that now. It would be painful but easier to give up on the hope and dreams for my family. To move to acceptance and not have to worry about my interactions with H anymore. I would not continue a R or communication with him. I'd be friendly in regards to if I saw him at an event, but I would stop trying to promote a friendship R. It is exhausting... or maybe it's reality in the way that relationships take a lot of presence and conscience efforts and I didn't do that before. I'm just feeling the stress of the last year and feel it's all on my shoulders, including the hope of our family's future. If I played along with H we'd never speak and there'd be no hope at all.

I realized yesterday that my greatest fear in continuing as friends with H is being taken advantage of. What part of me does that speak to? I'm stumped on this - pride? abandonment? fear? I still don't know myself well enough to understand why that's the worst feeling for me.

[labug]

Have you read The Dance of Anger? It's old and some references a bit dated but it is still good information.

Actually I think this

To move to acceptance and not have to worry about my interactions with H anymore. I would not continue a R or communication with him. I'd be friendly in regards to if I saw him at an event, but I would stop trying to promote a friendship R.

is a good place to be until you feel like you want to be friendlier.

About the hope, let it go. All you have is today. I know people will bristle at this but hope leads to expectations, hope leads to disappointment and guilt and feelings of unworthiness when what we hoped for doesn't happen. We feel that somehow we weren't worthy or we didn't do it right. Hope for what may happen in the future sometimes blinds us to the wonderful things we have today.

How you handle today will influence tomorrow and how you handle tomorrow will influence the next day, etc. We can only live one day at a time.

You have great Ds, and it sounds like a pretty good life. Enjoy that, revel in it and let tomorrow take care of itself.

Do you do a gratitude list every day?

Thanks for making me think about and write that today. I needed it.

[labug]

So you're on my Gratitude List for today!

[bustingout]

Hi reb

But if this goes south, I will feel terribly used by H. My efforts to heal with him and our dds will help him in his goal of reconnecting with girls. But I'll get nothing out of it, except the satisfaction of knowing I did my best and learned to evolve. I need that to be enough...

I tell myself this as well. If anything, H will at least have been given every opportunity to be the best father he can be with the kids. I am learning to let that be more than enough. Perhaps this is the goal for now.

It is exhausting... or maybe it's reality in the way that relationships take a lot of presence and conscience efforts and I didn't do that before. I'm just feeling the stress of the last year and feel it's all on my shoulders, including the hope of our family's future. If I played along with H we'd never speak and there'd be no hope at all.

It is exhausting. That is something to think about...I like what you said about R's taking more presence and conscience efforts..I agree..and I know I certainly didnt do it in the past. Something to think about for sure...


my greatest fear in continuing as friends with H is being taken advantage of.


I spoke to my coach about this very feeling. He said I was reacting out of fear. We need to be authentic to ourselves...genuine in our interactions. What the WAS chooses to do with it, is their issue...not ours.

((((reb))))

[reb9597]

Quick db advice pls?

H just emailed me about the tiny clown car idea again, apparently there's a promotion through the city he works for and he asked what I thought about buying this new car and giving it to d15 when she's driving next year. It's an all electronic car & he said he'd have a charging station installed at house for d15. He said he 'may have trouble charging it anyways depending on where he's living'.

I lightly mentioned the college thing last weekend and it was, as I suspected, whatever d18 wants. He said, she knows how much we've agreed to pay. Her decision after that.

A couple years down the road and I don't care what he drives or how he pays for it. His problem. But now, with nothing filed and us still financially linked, I'd really like to be prudent about any financial decisions and error on the side of caution. I'd like to know how he's planning on paying for the car and not have it effect me.

But on the other hand, I really c*ck blocked his decision making capabilities in the past. And, if we were staying together, would have to get d15 a car anyways. If we were not together, I'd have to find something used and really cheap I could afford with his input.

Since he'a left, H's been very responsible money wise (to my knowledge). But once he moves out of his friends house and gets a place of this own, it's going to come out of my pocket and Im worried about adding on a car payment.

So how do I handle this? Act as if we have a future and hope for the best? Try to advise against making any financial decisions and say no?

I appreciate him bringing up the idea and would like to be part of the decision making process. How to do it on db terms?

[azguy]

Quick db advice pls?


I lightly mentioned the college thing last weekend and it was, as I suspected, whatever d18 wants. He said, she knows how much we've agreed to pay. Her decision after that.

You sound disappointed with how this went? These seem to me to be opportunities where you can express your interest in his input, not so much about whether he responds or not. Do you feel you conveyed to him your interest in his input?

Since he'a left, H's been very responsible money wise (to my knowledge).

Did you tell him this? Sounds like good positive input to him.

So how do I handle this? Act as if we have a future and hope for the best? Try to advise against making any financial decisions and say no?

I appreciate him bringing up the idea and would like to be part of the decision making process. How to do it on db terms?

I would act "as if". It builds some trust. But only if you could really be okay with the decision. Be honest about this.

[reb9597]

You sound disappointed with how this went? These seem to me to be opportunities where you can express your interest in his input, not so much about whether he responds or not. Do you feel you conveyed to him your interest in his input?

I'm not disappointed, it was just what I expected. Maybe I messed that one up, because I just laid out the facts and said something like 'I know it's been hard for you to work so much and I just want to make sure you're aware and on board with d18's plan and the expense'. He just said 'she's knows how much she's getting from us'. I didn't see where there was anywhere else to convey my interest in his input... I dropped it based on his lack of input. If I pried any more it would've seemed like I was stressing about it, which is my default and what he would expect.

I only know he's been responsible by snooping (I ran a credit check on him in March) so I can't really praise that!

My reply email to H about car: "I appreciate you offering and asking my opinion. Very much. I don't know anything about the program you're referring to, is it a good deal? I guess I would be most wondering about payments and how that'd relate to d18's college obligations. But you know me, can't pass up a good sale. Do they have charging at work? D15 hasn't seemed overly anxious for driving or having a car so it's okay either way. Good planning ahead!"

I don't know if that was the right way to navigate this. It doesn't make sense to me to make decisions like this when there's so much up in the air. This is my test to go with the flow.

[azguy]

I just laid out the facts and said something like 'I know it's been hard for you to work so much and I just want to make sure you're aware and on board with d18's plan and the expense'. He just said 'she's knows how much she's getting from us'. I didn't see where there was anywhere else to convey my interest in his input... I dropped it based on his lack of input. If I pried any more it would've seemed like I was stressing about it, which is my default and what he would expect.

This is something I really struggle with. It seems to me if you want his input, you should ask for it in an open-ended way, rather than lay it out and then ask for a yes/no type of response. Ever notice how labug justs asks you a simple short question on here? It's almost impossible to answer without explaining your inner thoughts. Ask like that. In this case maybe it could be something like. How do you feel about D's decision? Give him no indication of your worries. He may still not bite, but sometimes routines take awhile to break.

Your email response sounded reasonable to me. I would cut sentences like the last one in the future, if you're looking for feedback.

[reb9597]

H took dds to mall before MC appointment for my birthday and mother's day, both next week. He relayed a cute story about d15 and said 'you've done a really good job with them'. I replied 'they're our girls, we both did'.

Had appointment with MC tonight. It was only our second appointment, so he's still gathering information and history. H is the 'patient' so MC had to do a diagnosis on him for insurance and he asked H as series of questions - is or has he felt anxious, depressed, irritable etc. H admitted to having sleeping problems, he wakes up in middle of night and doesn't go back to sleep. He's been irritable, especially at work. H said he had feelings of worthlessness. MC asked if he had feelings of guilt and he said no. What's that about???? Deep denial?

MC asked if anything has changed in the last two weeks since last appointment and we both said not really. H told MC that's not even a change, because we've always gotten along, had fun, joked, and could have a perfectly good relationship. I countered that a little by stating that we have been communicating more, but it's based around the kids or planning mostly. I don't feel I have permission to call and ask how his day was. H asked, why would I feel that way? I said that our communication has been so bad or non-existent and there seems to be a wall there. I asked him if he wanted more open communication on a personal level and he just said 'let me think about it'. (Duh! That's the wall I was referring to!)

The rest of the appointment was doing a geneogram, where it was easy to see our similar abandonment issues from our separate childhoods.

While we were in appt our kids were texting us about meeting for pizza for dinner. So we both came out of the session with 9 text messages and we met for another family dinner. Then H came over to the house to listen to D15 practice for a class presentation tomorrow. It was nice, calm family time.

H asked about watching the cats while we're gone this weekend and asked if he's here late Saturday, would I mind if he slept on the couch and left for work in the morning. I was gracious and said of course, H, this is still your home. (boy that was hard!!)

When he left, I walked out on the porch and asked him how he was feeling about the MC. He said if was tedious because it's just all history stuff, but he was fine with it. I thanked him a lot for going with me. And then I said:

Me: 'I know you're goals and objectives are different with the MC than mine are. And I really appreciate you being open to this experience. I read something today that I wanted to share with you (an AS post on another thread!), that if someone had told you on our wedding day or the many years after that you would have fallen out of love with me, you never would have believed them. Your feelings and thinking have changed. And I am hoping that they can change again'

H: 'I'm not closed to that'.

Me: 'I don't want the same relationship as before. I'm not the same person so it'd have to be different. You're different too. (then I backtracked a little) Actually I feel a lot like the old me, before kids and stress and BS.

H: 'I don't know if I can remember back that far' :l

Well I don't know. I know I was pushing a little and I'll totally back off now. Or maybe I should have asked questions to draw him out, but I couldn't think of where to go with that. Of course I want H to say he wants a better R too and will work for it, but I just get cautious detachment instead. Maybe it's safer that way for now.

Another appointment in two weeks then we made two appointments for the following consecutive weeks. Maybe he's still too deep in the fog. I don't know how to make him feel worthwhile if he doesn't want to be open with me. It feels like we're cousins, or people that have grown up together and have a deep affection but not the love attraction we'll need to have a renewed marriage.

[labug]

Sloooooow down! Read back over your post and pick out the positives!