DBing European Style, part 2

[Papa4Life]

Hi folks,
The last thread was getting kinda lengthy, so I've decided to start a new one. Here's the link to my old thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2341717&page=1

Here's the latest update:
W is still giving all the signs that it's "D or Bust", as far as she's concerned and I'm working hard to keep detaching. I've found it very difficult, but I'm trying.

The major issue lately has been agreeing on when we each can take time outside the house. W and I for years took time switching off bringing the kids to bed and we recently agreed that the person who was "on duty" would handle everything and the other person was free to do their own thing. So, when it came time to decide when we would be free to go out, I just said, whoever isn't with the kids is free to go out. W complained about that bc she says she has things with work that she has to do and can't control the scheduling. This is very illustrative of a major issue in our M. W is so dedicated to her job that at times I feel that she is unrealistic in her demands for free time. When W goes out she almost invariably leaves right from work, which leaves me to pick up kids, feed the young 'uns, tidy up, and see them off to bed. I on the other hand, usually don't leave until 7 or 8, which means I usually do much of the above before I leave.

Another issue is that W is having an EA with her assistant manager (62) and she finally admitted that she has gone out with him alone and talks about our sitch with him, after denying it for months. She also visited a man from a course she is participating in (part of the program is that they visit each other at their jobs to see their management styles in action) and she didn't get home until midnight. What's odd is that I'm less bothered about OM than I am about feeling taken advantage of. Perhaps this is because W's low libido has been an issue in our M, so it's hard to imagine her burning up with lust for an OM! On a related note, I have brought up having what I call a "farewell party" with my W (my own libido is still intact, even if my M is falling apart), but looking back it almost feels like harassment on my part, so I've stopped bringing it up.

I suppose this issue of W wanting me to keep doing the lion's share of the childcare (hey!) will be an issue even post-D, so I'm going to need to stand up for myself.

As some have suggested, I've decided to take a vacation to visit the family in the States for a few weeks. W will be on her own (just as I have been on so many occaisions and I think it will be an eye-opener for her. Although, knowing W, she'll call on her parents to help. I can't wait to go.

"Now leaving limbo land. You'll be back..."

[makingmagic]

Hey P4L, how was your Friday? my Sunday was slightly better.... I managed to turn off my phone for a while.

[Papa4Life]

Friday wasn't bad, actually. Because I decided to get out of the house and let W take care of the kids by herself for a change. Usually I'm around to make dinner and sometimes bring the girls to bed before I head out, but Friday I just let her know that I wanted to get an early start. And it was GREAT! Now I know why she likes it so much

I've started a new part 2 to this thread because this one's getting pretty lengthy (mostly due to my novel-length blathering). Feel free to say hi when your on the board.

[Papa4Life]

Oh wait, this IS the part 2 thread. My bad.

[Papa4Life]

Hi all, the plan now (apparently) is to tell the children about the D at the end of May (after S10's bday). I asked her whether, considering that it might take some time to find another place, it might be better to wait until we know something definite before pulling the rug out from under the kids' feet. W said to me "Better for them or better for you?" I didn't respond, just out of the disgust that I felt for such a heartless response. As I've written, I'm a child of D and I've seen it all around and from up close. I LOATHE D and I salute everyone here who is making the effort to get things on track. So that comment was a major turnoff for me and ironically it has helped me in becoming detached. I love my W, but not this alien who sleeps in the adjacent BR.

[Papa4Life]

Last week after another bit of turmoil (sigh, another backslide) during which W made it clear that her mind was made up, and during which she reassured me that I would find someone "nicer" than her, I finally got it through my thick skull that I MUST work solely on myself. The next day, W texted to say she would be home late. Initially she had texted to say that the trains were delayed, so I called to ask if she was stuck at work, but she told me that she wanted to go out with her assistant managers (one of whom is the older dude she's having an EA with). I asked if she would be talking to the 'OM' about our situation, but she said no. Later, I asked her why she had decided to go out with OM on a night that she was supposed to be with the kids and with no advance notice, particularly since we had agreed just a few days before that we would try not to make plans without at least some notice. I also asked whether she had arranged it so that she could be just with OM and she didn't respond (in W-speak: yes). I also pointed out that I had told her that her seeing the OM alone was a deal-breaker for me, and I asked whether she had done this before. No response (yup). I also asked if she had been discussing our sitch with OM. No response (ditto). So, I finally set a boundary. I told W, if you want to see OM, you're free to do so, I can't control you, but if you do that without notice and on a night that you are supposed to be with the kids, I'll send an e-mail to your regional manager informing him that you are carrying on a relationship with one of your subordinates (strictly verboden). She didn't respond and I just let it lie.

Also as I've mentioned, I've decided to take a trip back to the States to visit friends and family. Finances are a bit tight at the moment, and I asked W if I could appeal to her parents to loan me the money and that I would repay them promptly once the substantial invoices I've sent out are paid. She agreed. Then this week when she went to visit one of the men from her management course for a "work visit" and stayed out until after midnight, I contacted her parents. I told them that the situation had become untenable and that, while I'm glad W has close friends and family to confide in during this difficult period, that I have suffered from being so isolated here. I also pointed out that, yes, W is carrying on a relationship with the older guy at work and perhaps also with this guy from her course and that I feel that she is disrepecting me and our children. The next day, W e-mailed me to say that her father had called and she would like me to send her the e-mail I had sent to them. I politely refused, saying that unless she wished to allow me to read her e-mail and texts, that I felt no obligation to share my personal e-mail with her (granted its her parents, but if they feel compelled to share the contents of the e-mail, as it later became apparent they had done, then I can't stop that). At any rate, I decided to just buy the ticket myself and leave her parents out of it.

I finally booked the flight last night and W was very interested in when I was going, who I would be staying with, did she need to arrange anything. I said no, I'm taking care of things, and she said "accept for taking care of the kids while you're away". She had no problem leaving me with the kids when she goes to her course for days on end every month or when she goes out after work and I'm left scrambling from morning to night. So, I think this will be a bit of an eye-openener for her. I'm glad that the detachment is going so well, and I think W is starting to notice. Not that I care She also sent a text today and immediately called to say exactly what she had just texted and even offered to help out arranging things with the kids before she leaves for a bday dinner with some close friends tonight. I was pretty blown away, but I assured her that I would be fine taking care of things on my own (I love spending time with them and tonight's gonna be fun).

Maybe, if as they say a D is a lot like losing a loved one, if perhaps I've moved on in the grieving process from denial and anger to the acceptance phase. It sure feels like it, and thank heavens. I was in a bad place for some time and, even though I still want to work on the R, I know that I can be the kind of person I want to become. With or without W.

[sandi2]

Opps, sorry. I posted on your old thread. Here's the copy.

Why are you seeing a MC if she's going to get a D? She has to be on board and willing to do the hard work that comes in reconciliation. Otherwise, all the MC will do is validate her feelings. "If it makes you happy and it feels good, do it". That sort of thing.

FWIW, I don't agree about telling your WAW (who is having an A) every move you make and with who. What sense does that make? She's possessive! Talk about having her cake and eating it too!! The point is for her to experience what she will be losing now......not after it's too late.


Hope you have a good trip.

[Papa4Life]

Hi sandi,

The MC is over. That was a bad idea to begin with. She *really* made things worse. I thought we were going there to consider reconcilliation, she wanted MC to convince me to give up the chase and stop trying to save the M. I agree with half of that

Deep down my W is jealous and possessive, and that has raised its green-eyed head several times over the past couple of months. I refuse to tell her where I've been. I've got my phone with me and can be reached 24/7. W can see who she wants, when she wants, but as I've made clear in my new posts, for my own protection and the protection of my children, she must respect my boundary that she not be out with OM when she is supposed to be at home with the kids (based on the schedule that we both agreed to). Otherwise, there's the consequence.

[Papa4Life]

Well, the detaching is still proceeding apace. W seems to be doing her level best to bait me into an argument (read: more of the same), but my growing detachment has allowed me to let the negative energy blow right past me without affecting my mood at all. W today mentioned working extra days now that she'll need to adjust her schedule when I'm awa next month and complained that we don't talk. Pretty rich coming from someone who has essentially shut me out completely for the last several months.

D9 asked me to pick up her and S10 during lunchtime today to buy mom a bday gift, but W offered to go with them and wait in the car. I thought that was nice of her, as I'm busy with a fairly lucrative translation project at the mo. She also, without my asking, bought some things that I need from the grocery store for my vegan diet (reat of the family still very much carrniverous), and so I thanked her today for her thoughtfulness with these small gestures. W mumbled, "I'm always nice." To which I replied that I had long held that she was much nicer to friends and family than to her husband, and perhaps rhis bears that out. I mean, look I don't want to get into any W bashing here, but after I underwent the big V, W insisted that return immediately to all of my responsibilities with the kids, even though I was in a fair bit of discomfort and the twins were less than a year old at the time and had to be picked up to be put in their cribb or in the bathtub and whatnot, and lifting things is a big no no in the days after a V. I even recall W going out with work a time or two during that week. BIL on the other hand also underwent a V not long after, and asked W f she could watch her nephews ao he could relax. W not only agreed, but even kept them for the weekend to "give him a break to recover." I even wonder sometimes if my short recuperation time led to a stitch breaking, because it took an inordinate amount of time, and repeated trips to the lab with 'samples' before I got the all clear. This was typical behavior on W's part: not overtly 'mean' butsetting different standards forH and kids than for her" family."

P.S. Any guys who are reading this and considering a V, do not let this put you off. The discomfort involved in the procedure is minimal, and the discomfort afterwards is a dull ache for a few days, but can be more troublesome if you exert yourself. I'd say it was akin to having moderate muscle pain. Unless you absentminedly cross your legs, then it's whoo-daddy! Haha. Still the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. We had 4 kids so we were done, plus w had bad side-effects from the pill and a hysterectomy is mych more invasive than a simple V.

[T1000]

Well, the detaching is still proceeding apace. W seems to be doing her level best to bait me into an argument (read: more of the same), but my growing detachment has allowed me to let the negative energy blow right past me without affecting my mood at all. W today mentioned working extra days now that she'll need to adjust her schedule when I'm awa next month and complained that we don't talk. Pretty rich coming from someone who has essentially shut me out completely for the last several months.

D9 asked me to pick up her and S10 during lunchtime today to buy mom a bday gift, but W offered to go with them and wait in the car. I thought that was nice of her, as I'm busy with a fairly lucrative translation project at the mo. She also, without my asking, bought some things that I need from the grocery store for my vegan diet (reat of the family still very much carrniverous), and so I thanked her today for her thoughtfulness with these small gestures. W mumbled, "I'm always nice." To which I replied that I had long held that she was much nicer to friends and family than to her husband, and perhaps rhis bears that out. I mean, look I don't want to get into any W bashing here, but after I underwent the big V, W insisted that return immediately to all of my responsibilities with the kids, even though I was in a fair bit of discomfort and the twins were less than a year old at the time and had to be picked up to be put in their cribb or in the bathtub and whatnot, and lifting things is a big no no in the days after a V. I even recall W going out with work a time or two during that week. BIL on the other hand also underwent a V not long after, and asked W f she could watch her nephews ao he could relax. W not only agreed, but even kept them for the weekend to "give him a break to recover." I even wonder sometimes if my short recuperation time led to a stitch breaking, because it took an inordinate amount of time, and repeated trips to the lab with 'samples' before I got the all clear. This was typical behavior on W's part: not overtly 'mean' butsetting different standards forH and kids than for her" family."

P.S. Any guys who are reading this and considering a V, do not let this put you off. The discomfort involved in the procedure is minimal, and the discomfort afterwards is a dull ache for a few days, but can be more troublesome if you exert yourself. I'd say it was akin to having moderate muscle pain. Unless you absentminedly cross your legs, then it's whoo-daddy! Haha. Still the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. We had 4 kids so we were done, plus w had bad side-effects from the pill and a hysterectomy is mych more invasive than a simple V.

Apologies if I'm wrong but I think you come across a bit bitter even when there's some positive movement.

You thanked her for the thoughtfulness because she was thinking of you and she said "I'm always nice".
If you left it there you would have been giving her praise for a nice deed. She mumbled and wasn't gracious in receiving the compliment.
You then went from a positive interaction (from your side) straight into a negative one.
Considering she is a WAW was it wise to put her down? It's not gonna draw her to you.

I haven't had the pleasure of the big V. I understand your comments and I also understand it's hard work to look after a baby never mind two of them. Watching the nephews (how old?) for the weekend isn't the same as looking after twin babies all day every day. Did you say that you needed time and she said you couldn't have it?

I don't want you to think I'm taking her side just trying see a mid ground. I imagine my W would have done very similar. Now though I think I would be more likely to say what I need and stand for it.

It's a good sign that she wants to talk more.