Is this cake eating 13

[NLW]

New thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...525#Post2339525

Well, had my meeting with STBX.
Couldn't have gone worse...

Ended up with me saying I would not subject myself to this any more and getting up and leaving.

He insisted that I was not allowing him access to the children. Said i had to nominate particular days when I would allow him to have the children.

I responded by saying that at no time had i ever 'disallowed 'him to see them. That he had always been encouraged and allowed to see them whenever he wanted.
I asked him to ring them and organise to see them whenever he liked.

He refused and said he had to insist that i nominate some days and make the kids go with him (he didn't say where). I had to tell them to go with him and make them do it.

I explained that they were not young children any more and that I didn't know what their plans were - it's school holidays and D17 is now 17years old. She goes out with her friends at various times and usually at short notice - that's how kids do things these days via phones and now that they can drive. Also, she is working in her holidays to make money and I'm not sure which days or when. (as it turned out when i picked her up from work tonight she said that she'd been rostered on every day of the holidays. I said that's too much, but she said she needed the money.) S14 on the other hand has made it crystal clear that he doesn't want to go anywhere with stbx.

Anyway, stbx was insistent and got more and more agitated. I said that i understood how awful it was not to see the kids all the time and how hard , but he told me I was being condescending.

I said I couldn't make a time for tomorrow as he requested, as I needed to check with the kids. I asked him to give me time to speak to them this evening and to get back to him with some times.
He went ballistic.

He said he would take full custody of them. He said i had done nothing when S14 told him to F off at the supermarket on the weekend. He was outraged at this and said i had no control over S14. He also said I screamed at him so people could hear when i told him to leave us alone when S14 was so upset (My belief is that I did not speak loudly at all, although the check-out operator would have heard).

In the end, he called me a 'bunny boiler' - which is sort of ironic as I am the W, not the predatory mistress who texted him that she was "going to ruin his life".

That's when I said i wouldn't take any more and I got up to leave (although he strode out of the cafe before me).

As he walked back to the car, he called S14 to ask him to come out with him. S14 refused. STBX asked him to come out with him tomorrow and S14 refused again.

He didn't ring D17 but i think that he knows that he will get a frosty reception after refusing to give her her phone for 4 days recently.

I suppose i should have just said "OK, come over at 11am tomorrow morning and pick them up".

What would have happened was that D17 would have been at work when he arrived, and S14 would not have gone anywhere with him.

Then stbx would have gone ballistic again, like he did the last time he insisted on coming to get them at a time that they were not available (due to sport and work).

I don't think there's anything I can do. He just keeps making impossible demands that set me up: damned if i do and damned it I don't.

Can anyone suggest a way of dealing with him? Can he really believe that he can force two adolescents to go out with him against their will?

He is like an increasingly agitated mad man. Nothing I say can be agreed with - when we met, I said how awful the Boston situation was and asked if he had heard any news. He replied in a nasty and dismissive voice: if it were in a third-world country we wouldn't have even heard about it. Only 3 people were killed.

He is so lost.

[~ kd ~]

I would recommend speaking with a child services agency and finding out what the law would require as well as to explain the situation, considering the incidences with your H, S14, and the police.

[NLW]

Hi Kaff,
My L has said that for kids of this age, the courts pretty much leave it up to them, recognising that nobody can force them to see a parent if they don't want to.

Re your mention of the police, i think you might be mixing me up with someone else - maybe caigy?

Her H and mine seem to be acting very similarly, but hers has become physically violent.

[~ kd ~]

oh geeze, yeah sorry. The nutcase Hs being horrible to their kids seems to be a trend, right now. Your H wanted to take you to court regarding the kid's visits, then...

Right, so the kids get to choose. That's the same where we are, once the kids turn 14.

Unfortunately, there is no solution for you. Obviously you can not force the kids to go and if you tried, your kids would be angry with you, as well. He is going to further destroy his R with the kids if he keeps this up.

Just be there to support the kids and validate your kids feelings.

[NLW]

Trying something different.

Putting myself in stbx's shoes:

"I have started a relationship with someone else. I am out doing my shopping on Sat morning when I bump into my kids in the supermarket.

They go pale and look upset. I panic and don't know what to do. I feel like dying.
I am scared my ex H is going to make a huge scene - scream and shout and rant at me and punch my new partner.

I walk around for a while not knowing where i am or what I'm doing.
My new partner calms me down and tells me to just go up and talk to my kids calmly and nicely. Reassure them that everything is Ok. I am their mum after all.
Perhaps this is a good time to introduce them to my new man?

I go up to them.
My kids tell me to F off. My ex H tells me to leave them alone. I am horrified. They have no right to speak to me like that. I am the mother.

I try again but get the same response. Everyone in the shop is looking at me. I am humiliated and embarrassed.

This is not my fault. I am just doing a bit of shopping with my new partner. Why is my ex H being such a bast--rd?
He has turned the kids against me.

I stew for days. My D is rude and screams at me when I call her on the phone. I have to teach her to behave properly if my ex H will not. I will withhold something she really wants (her phone). My S refuses to go anywhere with me. He has been tricked by his father into thinking I am bad.

I have to insist that my ex H allocates time for me to see the children on a regular basis. My new partner tells me that this is standard practice. My ex H is obviously manipulating them and me, and is withholding them from me in order to punish me.

I love and miss them so much I can't bear it. They are turning into horrible children and I need to be more involved in their parenting.

If only my crazy ex H would do the right thing... I've got this all worked out - it could be so simple.

But he is one of those unable-to-let-go maniacs. My new partner can see it - he calls him a bunny boiler. My ex H will ruin everything for everybody. This is not turning out like it should and it's all because of that crazy loon. "

Question is, How to move forward from that way of thinking?

[~ kd ~]

That would be all well and good, if it weren't for the reality that you previously withheld the phone from your D for no other reason than she forgot it in your car, and basically made her beg you for it.

NLW, it is OK to go through the different types of scenarios on what your H could have been thinking during the "Shopping Incident". The harsh truth is, his behaviours, even prior to that, were off the chart.

You are trying to rationalize and even justify his behaviour.

If I were in a store and met up with my W and the kids, and approached them and one of the kids told me to f off... I would have backed off, maybe felt a little sorry for myself and a little angry... and I would not have made a scene. Followed them around trying to get them to respond to me, humiliating not just them, but myself as well, in a public arena.

You H needs to figure out how he is going to a part of your kids lives and potentially, appropriately co-parent the kids with you. There's nothing you can do.

[wishing, hoping]

Let him stew. He is full of anger and fume. To heck with him. Don't answer the phone and don't talk to him. He's being a bully. If he continues to harass you get a restraining order. If she shows up at the house unannounced uninvited ask him to leave or you will call the police. Don't mess around with his bullying and don't take the bait!!

[bustingout]

I agree NLW. And while he could be approaching things in his head as you proposed, from a place of love and frustration, then he can very well try a different approach instead of the bullying and controlling tactics he has been using.

[subguy]

NLW, I completely understand you analyzing the situation and trying to see if you handled it good or not, however try not to own his behavior. That burden is his and his alone to bear. I hope you are in a good place emotionally.

Question is, How to move forward from that way of thinking?

Excellent question, if you were talking to me about this situation with no emotional attachment what would you tell me? Remember I am just a friend who had a horrible experience at a grocery store and you are advising ME on what to do.

[bustingout]

good question subguy.