Not confused...trying to move forward...

[BRNR]

Link to last thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2335565#Post2335565

So, if you read my last thread, my next step in this journey is to really sit down with H (per his request) and discuss the financial impact of him leaving and "the future" (his words). I am so nervous.

So I am preparing for the worst, but hoping for the best.

[Papa4Life]

Good luck with the conversation.

Remember not to be overly enthusiastic or overly emotional. Just try to listen and validate. I've got my fingers crossed for you.

[BRNR]

Thanks Papa, I need all the prayers, luck, support, etc, that I can get.

I believe the nature of the conversation he wants to have is to reduce the amount of financial support he is providing to me, because, guess what...he is struggling!!! (Why he didn't think about this before).

So I am prepared to listen and validate, but know if he decides to get ridiculous, then I will have to go to the courts and obtain support orders.

But you know what, it actually does give me a little relief in some way, knowing that I won't have to "depend" on him as much, as right now he sees that he is doing me a favor. (Really? Your kids, house, and debts too.) And, the pressure won't come from me, rather the courts, who will deduct the money right out of his pay...

[Papa4Life]

I wonder about that myself, BRNR: what do they THINK is going to happen? Maybe the WAS's mind is too fogged and confused to think realistically about things realistically, but I mean being shocked, SHOCKED that their financial situation is deteriorating? Well, no offense, but duh... That's like my WAW being upset that she didn't feel she had enough free time to socialize and do more activities with colleagues after working hours after we had our twin girls. Does she really think that she's actually going to have MORE free time if/when we separate and she becomes a single parent? What planet are they from? I'm going to remain fully engaged with my children if/when we separate, and W has made it clear she feels I should continue to maintain my current level of responsibility for taxiing the kids around and taking care of them after school, whereas I am going to have to work much more to support myself, and can't imagine how we're going to afford additional childcare for our four (count 'em four) kids. I guess they're just not thinking straight at the moment.

But I definitely applaud you for your determination to go through the courts to ensure that your H continues to meet his financial obligations. My father walked out on us when I was still a baby and my mom was too proud or not willing to pursue a legal injunction to provide financial support. Partly as a result, we were stone broke through most of my childhood (I once did the math and came to the conclusion that my parents got married, had us to get dear ol' dad out of the Vietnam draft -- mom turned 20 exactly a week before I was born (my sister is 13 months older than me) and she was a high school dropout, and apparently not many employers were interested in hiring a 20-year-old single mother in the early '70s). All of this is to say that I applaud your determination to be patient and receptive on the one hand, but not to take any BS on the other hand. No need to risk your well being and look the other way as he tries to become a deadbeat. Hope it doesn't come to that.

[BRNR]

Papa,

I hear all you are saying. It is really something I don't want to do, and in the end, may be a catalyst for things to progress even more negatively for us. Trust me that it is a hard decision to make, but one that I am prepared to do. It is going to hurt me a lot to do this. I know this. But at the moment, wrong or right for the relationship is not the same as wrong or right for our kids and my future.

I really do love my H, but he is really just only worried about him and him alone. Even his statements that come across about the boys are really about him. Most recently in his last email about the finances, this is what he said.

As with you, I am maxed out. Real talk, I don't know how much longer I can sustain paying the greater portion of bills at the house. I would like to sit down and discuss this with you very soon. Part of my email last week was in regards to this and what the future will be. Yes, this was my decision and yes, I agreed to pay these bills but we did not discuss for how long. The boys are priority! But if I can't pay my own bills I will have to get a second job and my time with them will suffer greatly. I'm not above working two jobs as you know but I am barely surviving here. I have nothing and money is so tight. I never buy groceries and every time I turn around you want me to pay for other things not discussed in our original agreement. And I have done so every time no questions asked. You asked and I provided. But now it is hurting me it major ways. And something has to give or I'll be on the street if this continues.

Never mind that I said I was maxed too, and never mind that our boys live with me (we may be homeless as well if I can't pay for things)...everything in his email is H,H, and more H.

So, I am going to weigh all my options once we have our discussion on Sunday. I am not even sure that I will be able to get what he is giving me should I go through the courts, so we will see. But I am ready to do it, push come to shove.

I pray it doesn't come to that, but by the negative tone in the email, I can only assume it will.

By the way, here is my response to his email, just in case anyone is curious.
I am sorry that you are struggling. Please know that the finances have impacted me as well, so I totally understand where you are coming from. We are both financially obligated to the house an joint debts and I too have concerns of how much longer I can keep going. I am willing to discuss things, but feel that we need to set some time alone together to discuss face to face. I wasn't aware of anything extra I was asking for you to pay for, but do appreciate that you have done so thus far. If you can arrange for us to discuss these matters I will do my best to oblige. Let me know. Thanks.

[Portia]

Hey B,

You were kind enough to go through my novels and I wanted to return the favour by visiting your thread, too.

I agree with you when you say you have to separate the personal from the business, especially when H has taken off. I am often involved in negotiations for my job and let me tell you, trust no one when it comes time to negotiate money. It is a ruthless business. Know what your expenses are, know your bottom line (what the court would give you) and know where you can negotiate. Ask him to provide a list of those "extra expenses" which often turn out to be fictitious.

The cooler and more collected and prepared you are, the better off you will be. Preparation will also bring some confidence which never hurts. Don't mention that you have spoken to a lawyer, that information is for you only. He will not be as prepared as you are and that puts him at a disadvantage. This is business.

(You can have a rip the soul out R talk some other time )

Hope that helps.

[job]

Your response was perfect. You are the main custodial parent in the household. You have the boys a large majority of time, as well as keep the household going.

Mlcers don't think about any of this when they walk out the door. In their minds, they think the bills and responsibilities will magically disappear or that the spouse will feel sorry enough for them when they cry the blues to tell them that they will pick up the tab. Life doesn't work that way in today's society. He's having to face the consequences of his actions. Yep, the old boy needs to pick up a second job and try to arrange his schedule so that he can see his children. It's not your fault he opted to create two separate household.

You can feel sorry for him, but do not allow that to soften your stance on support. Remain calm and collected when you are discussing finances w/him. This would be considered a business deal and should be dealt that way.

Good luck!

[BRNR]

Yep, the old boy needs to pick up a second job and try to arrange his schedule so that he can see his children.

And let's not forget OW too!!!

You can feel sorry for him, but do not allow that to soften your stance on support. Remain calm and collected when you are discussing finances w/him. This would be considered a business deal and should be dealt that way.

This I am trying to do. I practiced a little of what I would say, and how I would say it, etc...the calm and cool part I have together as he has said quite a few things in the past months where I should have blown up, but didn't, and honestly I surprised myself. But, the emotional aspect, I am concerned that will creep into the conversation.

I am really hoping he makes it easy for me one way or the other to proceed. IE., I am hoping he would say, "I am not giving you any money", or "I am filing for the divorce", or "I want to work things out" (well, really my hopes are not hoping on this one too much-at least not right now), but something very definitive and not confusing where I have to make a decision. It may sound like I am changing my stance, surely I am not, but I just almost want him to make my decision for me because of his actions.

I love him, and my end goal is for one day for him to want to return to our marriage again and be in love with me again. But I am losing my hope, more and more, every day. Some days I feel that this end is more real to him than actual MLC. Almost like it is me thinking he is in an MLC. Maybe he is sane and sure that he is no longer loves me. Honestly either way hurts, but maybe by me believing he is in a crisis, it almost gives me too much hope that he will realize his bad damaging behavior and come back to me.

So another hour of over-thinking about this way too much. But I am still trying to navigate myself through this whole mess, so I am trying not to be too hard on myself.

Tonight I have a few hours alone, because H will be picking up the boys, and I have decided that I will attend one of the "Divorce Care" classes. I spoke to the lady who is in charge of it, and she said that they do 2/3rds of the class as a group therapy type session and then the last part is topic oriented, whether it be about finances, dealing with anger, or legal aspects. She even said they offer child care (not that I need it, but I thought it was pretty cool), and they have a cafe with a decent menu, so if people don't have time to grab dinner before they get there, they can grab a bite to eat. So I am a little anxious as I have NEVER done anything of the sorts. I am hoping I can take away something from it. Even if it is just meeting new people who are experiencing my pain.

[wishing, hoping]

Tonight I have a few hours alone, because H will be picking up the boys, and I have decided that I will attend one of the "Divorce Care" classes. I spoke to the lady who is in charge of it, and she said that they do 2/3rds of the class as a group therapy type session and then the last part is topic oriented, whether it be about finances, dealing with anger, or legal aspects. She even said they offer child care (not that I need it, but I thought it was pretty cool), and they have a cafe with a decent menu, so if people don't have time to grab dinner before they get there, they can grab a bite to eat. So I am a little anxious as I have NEVER done anything of the sorts. I am hoping I can take away something from it. Even if it is just meeting new people who are experiencing my pain.

Let me know how you like it! A friend of mine strongly encouraged me to attend DivorceCare classes and I do like it. I plan on taking them again once the new session starts in the fall. I think they are helpful. I hope you enjoy them.

WH

[BRNR]

Thanks WH. Was there anything particular that you liked?