It is a good time to start a new thread. Not only is spring here but although very little has changed in the situation, I find myself in a better, stronger place. Sigh. Which sometimes gets a person into trouble.
On my last thread, I was contemplating "dropping the rope" in Snodderly terms or, in my terms, saying goodbye. To me, that meant absolutely no contact from me unless initiated by xSO and even then, only when I felt like it. I still love him but could not see any progress in the eight months since BD.
But, had a little wine last night with the girls...and made a phone call. Oh, yes. The very opposite of cool, calm and collected. Way opposite. It was a good thing that I was prepared for anything because I initiated a R talk.
And I learned that in the eight months that my life has undergone a revolution of sorts, the MLC xSO's has not. Now, the "years" timeline makes sense to me.
This is what he tells me. Maybe some of it is even true. He is very confused and often depressed. He is going to counselling and his counsellor identified MLC as well as co-dependency. He admits that he is only about 2% the way through fixing his life. He has had some bad episodes at work which he told me he could tell me, but not the counsellor. He has a hard time sleeping in his bed.
His self-esteem is low and he hates himself for hurting me. He does not want to lose me but of course, wants only to be friends with strict rules and boundaries but through whatever relationship he is in or not in at any given time.
He is positive that he still wants a family (for those who have not read my entire sitch, we were unmarried and childless by choice for 18 years, now all of a sudden he wants to play papa). This of course sends a strong message to me since I do not want children.
These last expectations are nothing I have not heard before: he gets the best of me and a family. Snodderly once said that he is still searching for the Band-Aid and I believe that. If I meet someone else, and love them enough to marry them, I would expect that person to be my best friend - doesn't he? And - straight up - what woman is going to allow her BF/H such a close relationship with another woman, especially one he has such a history with? If I had to guess, she knows none of what he is telling me.
I also learned that he was indeed spending time with GF again. Yay intuition! This was the scariest revelation to me: he said that they were having issues because she is going through a rough divorce and desperately fighting for her marriage. Leaving aside the obvious why are you sleeping with another man if you are fighting for your marriage, but the most stunning thing to me was that I asked if he was OK with that and he said apparently he was. I shut my trap after that. Really, this is someone whom he said he was "in love with or what was the point?" (heck if I know, but that was new) become more serious behind the white picket fence and he is OK that she is currently seeking to reconcile with her H? Is it me or is that screwed up?
But, later on he said how much he like the youngest kid (little over two). He won't interact too much with the six year old because she is old enough to know that he is not her father and she would be a "minefield". So what this realtionship really boils down to for him is a ready made family with a woman that he really can't even tell if he loves her who is desperately fighting for her marriage to someone else (oh, for the kids of course).
I am not calling that a train wreck to make myself feel better. It is a train wreck. I wonder if the counsellor has heard this. So, there is one more "truth" of MLC - they do affair down.
He says he loves me and is hoping that I will still have him in my life. I was non-committal in my responses.
He mentioned going to counselling together and even mentioned that we should schedule some more time to talk. Of course in the midst of that, he also mentioned that all of the time spent on the phone while I was in first year school and we were apart for eight months was "unhealthy". I recognize this last bit as being only words and not yet actions or even commitment to actions.
So, does this change where I am? No. I would still very much like some advice as to how to "drop the rope" but not completely abandon him. We have been in a fair bit of contact lately which I was going to stop in any event. Maybe once I have detached we CAN be friends. Maybe not exactly like he is expecting but casual friends. I have heard over and over that he has to hit rock bottom before real change can occur. I truly hope for his sake it occurs before he does something stupid (well, something else stupid, after all he is giving up real love).
He said he would call tonight and I told him I would be home. I have no intention of bringing up more R talk. I found what I needed to know - in his world, he wants a family and does not want a romantic relationship with me. I am taking that at face value.
When I want to talk to H about our R, I write him a letter. Then of course I never send it. But at least I've expressed myself. (And you know, even if I did send it the MLC wouldn't comprehend it.)
Just a thought.
Sending you good vibrations ~
Me 46 H 56 M 22 yrs S22, D20, Twin Ss18
You teach people how to treat you by what you allow. What you stop. And what you reinforce. ~~~~~~~ A lack of boundaries invites a lack of respect.
I could really, really use some help and perspective right now.
I know what I did was "against the rules" but I was at that point that it truly just needed to be put on the table - for me. I had absolutely no expectations that I could change his mind.
He called last night as promised. My intention was to keep the conversation short, light and airy. But he was determined to poke around in the can of worms that I opened. I won't repeat the whole conversation but the sum of all parts is that he really wants me as a history trophy (my words) in his life, as a "friend" while he pursues his dream of a family. I am there when he wants to touch the past but there is no promise of any sort of future.
Since BD, I have admitted that I had become the selfish one in our relationship. I really was OK with the long distance - I preferred not, but was OK - I was unaffectionate, we did have some nasty fights and I did not think we needed to put some sort of "label" on us. That was his laundry list. He says he felt differently. I never got his subtle hints; he calls them discussions. Obviously we were not communicating well and that is on both of us.
But while I believed that we were a couple, albeit an untraditional one, he uses those same facts now to say that he never cheated on me, just "handled things badly and believed that this was a white lie." He later admitted that he "cheated on what we had". So really, (I hear a counsellor here) he said that he handled things badly but since we were not a couple he would "allow" me to feel I had been cheated on but would not otherwise say that he had betrayed me in any way. How well I know him; I pegged this excuse in my very first thread.
That is the way he is currently seeing the world - and me. Not once did he say that if I fixed all of those things he would stay with me. I did not expect him to say that.
For him, this offer of a demotion (my word) is just a change (his word) in our relationship. I cannot be replaced so he does not want to replace me, only my role in his life. Like keeping your old car to go for a nostalgic drive every once in awhile even though you have bought a new one.
I told him that while I have made no decisions, that I may not be able to accept the demotion and that what he describes does not appear healthy for me or for any new relationship that he would be in.
In that moment, I delivered the BD to him. It never occurred to me that he just took it for granted (despite all the evidence on this Board to the contrary!) that I would always be there in whatever form he chose to keep me and it never occurred to him that we would ever go our separate ways compleletely.
After that, there was a looong silence. I refused to break it. As Snodderly said, he needs to know the consequences of his actions and choices; he needs to grow up.
I have not (can not) made any decisions regarding the relationship and now it is me who does not want to talk about it anymore. My plan right now is to: do nothing, sit quietly, slow the clock and focus on the things I need to do outside of this R.
For him, this offer of a demotion (my word) is just a change (his word) in our relationship. I cannot be replaced so he does not want to replace me, only my role in his life. Like keeping your old car to go for a nostalgic drive every once in awhile even though you have bought a new one.
I told him that while I have made no decisions, that I may not be able to accept the demotion and that what he describes does not appear healthy for me or for any new relationship that he would be in.
Portia, I feel you here. I actually got told some of this by my H as well, "I am not looking to replace you, yadda, yadda." And because of the ever increasing distance that is being put between us I am actually worried (not planning) that I will have my own BD with my own H soon.
I think that we LBS's also need to live true to ourselves. Sometimes, the do nothing, be patient, act as if, sometimes I feel it puts us in the situation to lose parts of ourselves, especially if we were outspoken and strong people before. I know I was. But I think the true thing to do is live in the moment sometimes and while you did BD him, maybe that was your true self speaking.
What's done is done. Let it go, and move forward. And always remember, there is not one thing we can or cannot do to change them. So he is going to feel and do what he wants anyway. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and try to go forward. Everything will be okay.
BombOctober 2012- OW 11/28/12 -H still denies Separated 11/29/12 Own place 12/12/12 Confessed OW/EA/PA 2/2/13 Oct 2013 - I knew I was done Jan 2014 - Anticipating the rest of my life
I do not regret the conversation if it at least wakes him up to the possibility that I may choose that it is healthier for me to take a different path than the one he seems to have unilaterally mapped out for me.
He mentioned he would be discussing all of this with his counsellor. Good. My statement was true and true to me. I feel that he is allowing this MLC to allow him to play the victim and blinding him to real consequences. I delivered a truth dart.
I agree with you that sometimes DB feels like we are not being true to ourselves. In those instances, I do not DB. I am generally a strong and outspoken person (he used to love that about me) but the advantage to DB was that I was able to work on my softer side. And it needed work.
Since your H is like my SO - we've become the "antique" in their world - then I believe we both have some time. Time is what I need right now. Time to stop the swirling thoughts, time to get back on track and time to figure out what I need and want.
I truly had no expectations that this would turn him around. But I do hope that his potential loss of me will slow him down enough to think about what he is doing. He has a long way to go, the question is do I try to walk with him? Do I be his casual friend? Can I be his friend knowing that he is pursuing someone else? IDK.
Imo, "truth darts" (love that term!) can be very effective when used judiciously and at the right moment...and when the LBS does need to speak their truth, and we do. I think the mlc'er is so self-absorbed that they really don't "see" or put together what they are doing and the possible ramifications in the future, sometimes the truth darts plant seeds that take a while to sprout.
Just my 2.5 cents.
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
I would easily pay a rounded up 5 cents for your insight
I was truly surprised that he seemed to be gobsmacked that I would not do as he suggested. I was kind, I used my inside voice when I said it and even waited a full ten minutes in silence with him until he could speak.
Made an inside joke and even made him chuckle a bit after that. He acknowledged that no one else could make him laugh like I could.
I never though it would be me wanting to slow things to a halt but I do. I would really like that seed to sprout.
He has a long way to go, the question is do I try to walk with him? Do I be his casual friend? Can I be his friend knowing that he is pursuing someone else?
A question I ask myself all the time, and for me, we have children together, so I really can't make that decision lightly. I will say for me, my feelings and actions recently to this is I cannot. And I will not, knowing that there is even a chance he is pursuing someone else. I have no evidence that he is not w/OW. I refuse to be a friend, because, honestly, to me friends are a dime a dozen, and a best friend should be someone you have a relationship with. So, if he doesn't have that with OW, than maybe he is barking up the wrong tree with that one.
But this is just how I feel and what I am doing, and honestly I struggled with that for a while, actually tried being friends for about 5-6 weeks (read my threads through February/beginning of March) and it just got to be too much for me that I had to go dim again So, I recommend doing whats best for Portia.
BombOctober 2012- OW 11/28/12 -H still denies Separated 11/29/12 Own place 12/12/12 Confessed OW/EA/PA 2/2/13 Oct 2013 - I knew I was done Jan 2014 - Anticipating the rest of my life
Portia, Your SO, like all mlcers, thinks that we will always be right where they left us, while they are out exploring the world. They can't see beyond their own little world that we are steadily moving on each and every day and that one day, we will be gone. Life doesn't stand still, nor should we.
I think it's time your SO face some of the consquences of his actions and I'm very glad to read that he's going to be speaking to his counselor about this.
Portia, it's time you take care of yourself and find a way to enjoy life again. If he truly wakes up and wants to be w/you, he will find a way to do it. But, until then, live your life as if this will never happen.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I didn't realize until I saw it that I realized I hoped you would post. Your experience with MLC is illuminating and has been quite spot on.
A tremendous thank you to all of you who stopped by my thread today. This is not a good day for me. I want to e-mail/text xSO to see if he is OK but I won't. We are cleaning out my parent's house and it is getting emptier and emptier. I feel like I am on that bungee jump platform, all harnessed up and the wind whipping at my face. I can enjoy the platform and the view it affords but I know that I cannot stay there all day and must jump.
Originally Posted By: snodderly
I think it's time your SO face some of the consquences of his actions and I'm very glad to read that he's going to be speaking to his counselor about this.
Thank you for saying that. I did not give the truth dart purposely but I do not regret that I did. I wonder what his counsellor will say. After all, she only knows her "facts" from him. I know there is nothing I can do about that, but I am curious. He thinks I should go to counselling; he highly recommends it. [BTW, I am not opposed just pressed for time and money these days]
I recall him saying to me during our conversation that over the course of our relationship he always invested in it and worked at it....and was always rewarded. He plays with some woman's child and wants to be a father, no consideration for what his life may look like - with just her (and her not-yet-ex-husband) nor me in it. If what he says is true, he is in a terrible spot (MLC!) so I am glad he is at least talking to someone because I am guessing that GF does not have much of a clue.
I won't stand still. I don't want to stand still. But for today, I want to go slow. This minute, I wouldn't mind my favourite pillow and my cat and the sound of her purring beside me.
