From whom? His parents? I already told him that if I answer the phone I'm not lying to them. You're right that I'm not contacting them specifically TO tell them. Everyone else knows our kids, his kids, friends.
Originally Posted By: oldtimer
My suggestion is just that she get a bit of stability and perspective before deciding how or whether she wants to force the issue.
I'm not sure I understand this. You don't feel I should insist H move out, or scramble for alternate living arrangements myself until I have counseling? Why? Because counseling will do what? Let me know that my M is untenable? I know that already. Let me know that I have contributed? I know that too. Could you please elaborate on this point?
Originally Posted By: oldtimer
I'm not talking about a lot of time either. My concern here is for MizJ's sake -- she needs to take the space and time to figure out how to handle things in the way that best meets her needs.
Intriguing. What do you see as my options? I'd LOVE to know there is something other than breaking up my family because that is the only option I can see. I cannot continue to live with H, and H is not willing to change, and I certainly cannot change him.
Originally Posted By: oldtimer
I agree that it is a healthy thing for MizJ to recognize this as a non-negotiable line that has been crossed. But what is the consequence? H has to cook his own dinner? I think more is called for, a firmer boundary.
Definitely need to explain WHAT you suggest. I have asked H to leave. I was calm and collected when I did so. I could leave myself, but that would mean sleeping on a friend's couch, and according to divorce lore lessen my chances of getting the house in the settlement. So in the interest of "meeting my needs" financially speaking, I feel I must say. What do you expect me to do here? Other than ignoring H entirely, which is where I am right now.
Originally Posted By: oldtimer
MizJ,
A person doesn't live a life like you describe, and keep a home, family, job, while juggling multiple relationships with OWs WITHOUT having a codependent partner.
His life doesn't work without your contributions to it -- you've kept him afloat in a million different ways, I would guess.
Again, meetings are free. Try 6. You'll get support. What could it hurt?
OT, I do not feel that the "type" of meetings you suggest are appropriate for me. I have some (limited) experience with these due to my brother. The people at these meetings have tangible addictions in their loved ones. What am I supposed to say. "Hi my name is MizJ and my husband used to golf. Oh, and he's generally speaking not that great of a husband." No. Thank you, but no.
Originally Posted By: kml
H sounds like he has OCD, btw.
Possibly so. Not the hand washing sort, but something in that vein perhaps.
Me 46 H 56 M 22 yrs S22, D20, Twin Ss18
You teach people how to treat you by what you allow. What you stop. And what you reinforce. ~~~~~~~ A lack of boundaries invites a lack of respect.
I was thinking more of "going bananas" but your analogy is much better.
Still not sure exactly what's going on here.
Had the big talk on Thursday.
Friday, a day H is usually gone doing his thing (Hah! I like that... what a thing ow is, what a thing this whole sitch is...) he decided to NOT go. I had 2 free tix to a concert (thanks to my awesome job) which I had planned to attend with S20. But S20 didn't really want to go (my era of music, not his) and H astonished us both by indicating an interest in going. So before I knew what had happened I was going to a concert with a man I had 24 hours previously asked to leave.
The concert was good. I danced with a female table-mate to some faster songs. H asked me to dance to a ballad. Figuring I'd already broken every boundary rule in the book, I danced with him. After the concert H thanked me. (You have to understand here, H HATES concerts. So IDK WTH happened there - it wasn't like the music was even his fave.)
Saturday I got up early, drove S20 to work. H got himself up and ready to go do his thing. Supposed to have had a luncheon meeting with a card dealer he met on previous trips, some sort of "business" idea discussion. H worked up some more of his famous statistics which he explained to me in dizzying detail. I nodded polite interest (I really think he's full of hooey on this whole "pattern" thing, as well as on so many other things.) He went off and I went off to work. There was no contact all day, a slight change because he has been texting me quite often. And I didn't text him either.
H was home when I returned from work. He inquired after my day and briefed me on his. More politeness from me, then I bade goodnight. H followed me upstairs within minutes, finished watching his show in bed.
There is no physical contact, although by morning H is rather more on my side of the bed than his. He is making his own breakfast and lunch. I haven't done his laundry.
He did bring up, again, some area of Canada that is paying truck drivers exorbitant amounts of money so I think he's considering that.
Today we both work. Tonight, we of course normally watch "The Walking Dead". This is a whole family tradition so I'm thinking I'll just join the fam in the living room for that show then head to the bedroom.
I really can't figure out what to tell the kids if/when things finally reach the surface. Probably will become more obvious to me as the sitch evolves.
This whole boundary thing is hard for me. I wanted to contact H yesterday - usually do just to make sure he's made it to his destination. And it would be so easy to lean into him in the bed. I have to figure out that I really want self respect more than I want a crumb of H.
New idea for me, going to be a bit of a challenge.
Me 46 H 56 M 22 yrs S22, D20, Twin Ss18
You teach people how to treat you by what you allow. What you stop. And what you reinforce. ~~~~~~~ A lack of boundaries invites a lack of respect.
H worked up some more of his famous statistics which he explained to me in dizzying detail. I nodded polite interest (I really think he's full of hooey on this whole "pattern" thing, as well as on so many other things.)
You are correct. Unless he's a card counter playing 21, there's no way to "cheat" at gambling - it's pure statistical chance. The odds are what they are.
(And I believe most of the casinos instituted methods to counteract card counters at the 21 tables).
I hope I can maintain my boundaries - because if I don't I'll be even worse off than before. The PMA thing seems to come and go like the wind.
KML, he doesn't count, he has a "betting strategy". He's not really out to "cheat" as I understand it.... he just doesn't believe in "random" and says there must be a pattern. I have a different philosophy.
Yesterday went pretty much as anticipated. H is still doing his own breakfast and lunch. I did make a family dinner last night so included him. It was actually one the better dinners we've had of late. Actually sat at the dining table (I get these crazy ideas sometimes) and there was pleasant conversation.
Now a question....
Bedtime last night I was a little groany - due to having worked my fast food job. H says "You know you'll feel better when you snuggle up to me."
I told him I'd be ok on my own.
A couple hours later he turned "camel" and inched his way up to me.
I was ALREADY on the edge of the bed. So I just feigned sleep and ignored him.
Should I have done this differently?
Gotta run - gettin' my hair done "I feel pretty, oh so pretty!"
Me 46 H 56 M 22 yrs S22, D20, Twin Ss18
You teach people how to treat you by what you allow. What you stop. And what you reinforce. ~~~~~~~ A lack of boundaries invites a lack of respect.
Ok. So after writing down the "snuggle" issue and thinking about it I realized BUT OF COURSE I MUST ADDRESS IT. And I will do so tonight.
Funny of the day.
Texts from H lol.
H: Are you doing laundry today?
Me: No.
H: Where are you?
Me: Appt
H: What kind?
H: What kind of appointment do you have?
Me: Hair.
H: Yes your hair has been looking good lately.
Probably the first compliment I've had in 5 years if not longer. Literally do not remember getting one this millennium. Last time H referred to my hair at all was when he considered buying me a wig for Christmas.
I might not be properly explaining this, in a way that shows the humor, but I find it hysterically entertaining.
Oh well, take the laughs where you can I suppose.
Cheers!
Me 46 H 56 M 22 yrs S22, D20, Twin Ss18
You teach people how to treat you by what you allow. What you stop. And what you reinforce. ~~~~~~~ A lack of boundaries invites a lack of respect.
he just doesn't believe in "random" and says there must be a pattern. I have a different philosophy.
Ummmm....yeah, you have a different philosophy - it's called mathematics!
Clearly your H does not understand basic statistical probability.
KML, are you somehow involved in the mathematics field? I am not, but H's approach seems illogical to me. He tracks his patterns of wins/losses. Such as wwwllwlllwwll and so forth. Then tells me "48% of the time this happens, 49% of the time that happens"
But,
I feel his sample size is way too small. (He bases his findings on a few hundred hands)
H thinks that, say you win 51% of the time, that you can't have a run of losses that exceeds that number. For instance, according to H you rarely lose more than 4 times in a row (and rarely win more than 4) so he plans his "progressive betting strategy" accordingly.... and then when the "rarely" does indeed happen thinks something has gone wrong.
IDK, I'm probably not explaining his approach properly - maybe because it doesn't make sense to me. It seems he disallows for true randomness. Thinks there is a pattern to everything.
In his defense, he does fairly well at 21. As I have said in past posts, he sets himself a budget and so forth. He sees a "career" in gambling, I do not. I can see where with discipline it can be perhaps a hobby that sometimes pays off. (Personally, I am NOT a gambler at all.)
I know there are supposed to be professional gamblers, but I prefer a less volatile income.
Not sure its a matter of "understanding" basic statistical probability. H just thinks he knows better, that he sees what others cannot.
Me 46 H 56 M 22 yrs S22, D20, Twin Ss18
You teach people how to treat you by what you allow. What you stop. And what you reinforce. ~~~~~~~ A lack of boundaries invites a lack of respect.
H insists ow is "helping" him "find the real h, the better h" reminds him of "who he used to be, so he can be that way again". Says she's making him better - don't I want that for him?
And I answered
(WHY? Because apparently I am a dumba$$. I should just have smothered myself with my own pillow. At least then I'd have gotten some sleep. )
that IF that was true, that I can understand why continuing a relationship w/ow was a viable "life choice" for H. I said that IF I take at face value everything he says, that "its all talk" etc, that its "helping" H, it still doesn't "help" our marriage and serves to damage me. So point being that, the "result" of his ow would be a happy H and a half dead me.
This of course fell on deaf ears.
I maintained that while there is ow, there is no me. H maintains that this is selfish on my part.
So, as usual, R talk benefited nobody.
H's interesting comments.
You should just continue doing the laundry and everything. I mean, I do things around here too. (Really wanted to ask him exactly what those things might be but managed not to. He does occasionally cook dinner. And if there's a disaster, he fixes whatever has broken. But the day to day living/maintenance kind of stuff? Nope. Nope nope nope.)
I am afraid to go to marriage counseling because I think they would tell me our marriage can't last and I don't want to hear that.
(This one really puzzled me.)
And just to ice the cake, today is our 21st anniversary.
I KNEW H wouldn't remember. I camethisclose to being passive-aggressively evil and not reminding him so that I could use it against him later. But I told him when he phoned just now to ask about D18's car. LOL, I even told him I'd considered NOT telling just for pure spite.
But you know what this ridiculous maddening man said? It went like this.
Me: I considered not telling you this, just so I could use it to my advantage later. But I realized that was petty and wrong. H, do you know what day today is?
) 
But I told him when he phoned just now to ask about D18's car. LOL, I even told him I'd considered NOT telling just for pure spite.