Here we go loopty loo. Here we go loopty li.

[albamarie]

TVS- your story from the hero spouse was just what I needed to read right now! I am going crazy with anger and needed some perspective, good post!

Raine - soo sorry your going through this! I think we have all about had it, this is some of the hardest work we will ever do! You are doing a very good job for yourself and your kids, stay strong!

Best dm

[AJM]

Raine, the "This house of cards has to fall at some point." statement caught my attention. While I'm sorry you have to deal with this mess, I wanted to point out: this ends when you say it ends. It seems he has done this several times before, and may continue to do so while he figures himself out. If he figures himself out. But whether the house falls or not, it only matters to me if you are around to see it.

Does that make sense?

Peace,
AJ

[Raine]

Thanks snodderly, T, Dawn and AJ, for always being so helpful, letting me vent, and keeping me in check. You always relieve so much anxiety and help me focus on the big picture.

snodderly, I'm not touching him with a 10ft pole. There have been a handful of hugs since S, but nothing else. So, I think I'm okay for the std now, but would not do anything with him without him having him do a full workup first. I don't think he would ever try to make a move, not even a kiss, while he was cycling between other woman (and I wouldn't let him either.) I don't think he wants to hurt me, and that's why he holds back any feelings he has towards me, if he does feel them at certain moments. Maybe there is a respect for me. He's not going to treat me like OWs. Whether that is respect or fear of rejection or that I represent the full relationship that he can't handle right now, who knows. Probably depends on the minute of the day.

I think there is always going to be that anxiety when a new woman is brought into play. Not the anxiety of H cheating, but the anxiety of will this go somewhere? Will this woman become someone who will be around by boys? But this seems to be same old stuff. A night of him being charming and validating and building her up, and then right on to the physical, teenager approach. Could that possibly be "Let me take you to dinner? Let's go see a movie?" No, no, let's go with making out in a parking lot and then afterwards why don't you send me pictures of your bits and bobs. This is pretty funny to me. I could not imagine in my wildest dreams allowing an encounter like that to happen if I was dating someone for the first time. So, I feel better today. It's just more of the same. No more thoughts of H starting a new life and new family with a 22 yr old.

The most upsetting thing to me yesterday was thinking that the cheating started when I needed him most, and yet he feels I have failed him when he needed me. That was hurtful, even though I had a pretty good idea before, it was the solidification of it.

AJ, I hear you loud and clear. When this all started, I felt so out of control. Now I truly feel like it will end when I say it will end. I do want the infidelity to implode all on it's own with me far, far away from it all. And yeah, it's annoying that everything seems so hunky dory with it all.

I don't see H making any moves with D. That convo we had last week where he opened up a bit to me, stressed the heck out of him. I can't imagine him being capable of handling filing for D at this point. And honestly, even though I think I could do really well by filing for D right now, I don't want to put him through that. He still feels wronged by me, but also seems so worried, careful and concerned that I am just going to leave him forever. This too is just hard for me to reconcile, even knowing as much as I do, I hate the illogicality of it.

When things like this happen, I think of my timeline. I have a time period in my head of certain things I want to do before filing and roughly when those events will take place. So then I think, I'm not waiting for him. I'm not waiting for someone who is cheating on me to put his life together. I'm waiting for x, y, z. I do have other things that would cause me to take immediate action, namely anything that would put me or the kids at risk financially or otherwise, or if he files, I will take action then too. But I like the idea of getting through my timeline, seeing where I'm at, and then seeing if I want to set quarterly check-ins with myself, like T^2 does.

...

So he just called me because he wanted to tell me how well his presentation had gone. I was very excited for him. This is new, for him to call up like this. He hasn't done this since BD, the calling up to share something with me that he had accomplished. We used to always bounced work ideas, projects, and how to manage people and situations off of each other. I was a big cheerleader to him on the phone. It felt really good to be that person for him again. He told me it has completely drained him, the stress of it all. I can't believe how much stress he has right now, how things effect him so badly. It's ironic to me that since he was so concerned about this presentation and the stress from it is still effecting him even now, that he would be out super late the night before, but whatever.

My journey has turned me into the exact opposite of that. I used to be an immediate reactor when it comes to work or kids or anything really. Now I'm so much more chill, go with the flow, patience, and thought behind everything. Not always the case on this board, but definitely with work, family, friends, and H. I hope he one day can get to that point where he can handle the stress in a similar way.

[GatorGirl]

Hey Raine,
Saying hello, wanted you to know I've been thinking about you and the baby quite a bit.

H and I are going through paperwork for D. Have the child support and custody paperwork complete. I need to have the house appraised for the financials and final settlement. I never thought I'd say it, but I'm actually ready for this and looking forward to the end. Amazing what five months will do to you.

Feeling a little stir crazy and have started seeing someone. Not sure what will happen but it feels good. I thought I'd wait until the divorce was final, but at this point I really feel like I'm just married on paper anyway, so why the h*ll not? I keep hearing the voice of my therapist in my head telling me to wait a year and I really don't care.

Hope you're doing ok. Your H seems to have going completely nuts and for that I'm so sorry. When you said people at work probably don't know you're PG, all I could think of is for you to show up there with something for him just so people could see you. Is that completely horrible?!

Big hugs,
GG

[JBolt]

Show up and pretend your water breaks! LOL

[Raine]

GG I'm so happy to hear you are in a good place. I recommend dating a lot and still have lots of you time. Yup he has gone hormone crazy nuts. It's pretty wild to think this is the man I married. Sometimes he is and sometimes he isn't. I'm pretty sure everyone knows I'm pregnant now. The FB announcement sent him spinning and he deactivated his account for a few days. J, I avoid his work completely. I feel like I would be walking into a brothel at this point

[Raine]

Things have changed a lot in the last week and I'm kind of having a hard time with it. I wasn't expecting to be dealing with H opening up at this point. I have just been going on with life and feeling completely out of his. I'm keeping tabs on things for various reasons, but feeling for the most part disconnected from it, more analytical than anything. Emotionally I'm just not there. My feelings have been so closed and locked towards him, it's hard to keep it all separated. The thought of being anything more than a friend to him at this point is so gone, and even being a friend is hard because I'm so hurt by him. He is reaching out to me so much more, as well as old friends, and yet I know he is still connected to his harem. So I'm being his friend, being happy, being awesome and encouraging, and knowing at the same time he is likely going to go off and suck some skank's face. That's difficult to pull off. I don't know how I'm doing it. The thing that I feel is helping me do this is my prayers to be able to see H the way God does, to love him and have compassion towards him, even when he hurts me or may not deserve it.

So here's the run down of multiple phone calls from the last week.

Last week I felt the need to reach out to him and warn him about someone, which turned into the big talk as I novelized in a previous post. Then a few days ago, close friend of ours mentioned to former friend that we were S. Former friend is going through D and completely messed up, blowing money, womanizing, alcohol. This FF calls up H, bashing his own STBX and wanting H to join in. Wants H to be his wing man to go out partying. H calls me to tell me all about it. Telling me how he told FF that I am amazing. That this has nothing to do with me. That H is a horrible person. That he is not drinking or talking to anyone and he'll go have lunch with him, but not interested in what FF was outlining. H told me he has his demons, but alcohol is not it. I told H he doesn't need it. He is the life of the party without it. I also told H he is not a horrible person, and that I am not perfect. I have made a lot of mistakes and have a lot of regrets and I want to be forgiven for those things, and how could I expect that forgiveness if I wasn't willing to forgive others? Talked about FF being in a bad place of depression and self loathing.

Another call: H calls to tell me how SIL had contacted him about a situation with friend of hers, and how H had told her sometimes you need to just cut your losses and that friend wasn't worth it, that she put too much time into the relationship and not getting a return. That he has gone through this too many times. I told H that SIL talked to me about the same thing, but the advice I gave her was to talk to face to face, that her friend could be going through a hard time, to be understanding, compassionate and forgiving, that typically people are not vindictive and malicious on purpose and there may be an underlying cause.

Then get a call from close GF of mine who is D. H was dropping off S and started talking to her, a lot. She said stuff to him I never would or could, but all from a loving/caring place. H said to her that I was amazing. I have changed so much and become even better than before. That he notices how happy I am. That I'm so strong and put together. That I look so good. That he did resent me for not noticing his depression, but then said he realized he was wrong to blame me for that and doesn't anymore: "How could she know, with work, the kids, and everything else, and me keeping it hidden." He blames himself for everything. He said that he can tell how I've been working on me and that he has to. My friend said to him, "Have you really?" She asked him about if he had gone to counseling and he said no, just the MC before. She told him if he found a good C, how helpful it was for her. (I don't think he is ready for that, but interesting she brought it up.) She told him how hard D is and dating and everything else. H told her he would be there for me and the baby and whatever I needed, but that it was just too hard for him emotionally to talk about. He told her that he knows I would forgive him for anything. (I have mixed feelings about this one, as does that mean he takes it as I am going to forgive him/love him no matter what, so he can continue to go down this path for awhile, take on more and more women, knowing I'll forgive him and thus take him back no matter what?)

H calls last night and wants to take the boys. I say okay and go out with another friend. Word has started spreading through neighborhood about S and I'm annoyed, because it's not caring/compassion, it's gossip. As I'm leaving to go out, I text a reply to someone that I don't need help with the baby, that H is there for me 100%. I tell this to H, leaving out the baby part, just that I don't need help and that H is there for me. I think he looks a little shocked, but nods and gives me a hug.

This morning on the way to work I was thinking about D, timelines, that I just don't know if I have those romantic feelings anymore. I care about him, but I feel so removed from the marriage. And two mins later as I am thinking this, H calls me to tell me a different friend who doesn't know about sitch (but likely does at this point) that he had a dream about him that he ran into him, and H was his happy, go-lucky self (this is something people have always said about H. He is always happy. He is always the life of the party) but then he turned around and followed him into a room, and H broke down crying. Friend wanted to call to make sure he was okay. H said he told him he is doing better now than he was last fall, it's all self inflected, and he doesn't' want to talk about it, but would like to go to lunch and it meant a lot to him that he would call. I think it says a lot that the first thing H does after this call is call me to tell me about it. I told him that was really great his friend did that.

H still talks to others about being depressed, but that his new outlets and hobbies are helping. I told him if he needs to come to the house to watch tv to decompress he could, but he told me that he is okay to be there when he's there for the boys, but otherwise he feels like an intruder and uncomfortable. I told him I was sorry he felt that way.

[AJM]

I wasn't expecting to be dealing with H opening up at this point.

Really? At what point did you think that was coming? Or did you? Honestly, I don't think you can expect that with any kind of reality. I also think it plays a part in how you feel towards him. Don't worry, that would be normal and that doesn't mean it will stay that way. Roller-coasters and balance and all that...

He told her that he knows I would forgive him for anything. (I have mixed feelings about this one, as does that mean he takes it as I am going to forgive him/love him no matter what, so he can continue to go down this path for awhile, take on more and more women, knowing I'll forgive him and thus take him back no matter what?)

Your ego getting bruised a little at that one? I imagine so! But another way to look at (and who really knows what he means) is that he feels "safer" with you and sharing his feelings. He knows he cannot hurt you continuously. He also knows he's broken. And he knows he is trying to fix it the best way he can. But he knows it's not you, and that's HUGE to be honest. What happens from there is still up to him. But it is, and always was, up to you as well. You are not trapped or in limbo. You are simply watching him figure himself out. There are many here who would have LOVED to have that conversation and deal with the problems of wondering if they felt something more than compassion for their MLCr. But what you describe is positive, and yet sad. It's a long long road that you two are on. Still going to be bumps.

Take a look in the archives and see how some of the folks that came out of the fog did it and the timelines. And what the LBS went through as it was going on. I think you'll see my thought process.

No matter what though, it doesn't mean he is done. He is not. He has more to do and you'll need to continue to let him.

I told him I was sorry he felt that way.

Great way to end the conversation. I applaud that and I believe you meant it.

Peace,

AJ

[Raine]

I wasn't expecting to be dealing with H opening up at this point.

Really? At what point did you think that was coming? Or did you?

Haha! No, I did not think this would be coming for awhile. I have had the mindset of at least one year post BD for this replay stage, where he would pretty much be gone. It's only been 7months since BD. Going off of the "If it's one year since BD, he is in replay. If it's 18M, he is likely still in replay. If it's two years, he may be coming out of replay." And with that I have set myself up as he will be with OW and shun me and not talk to me, and any time he does I need to keep myself at a distance. But I don't know where any timeline is at this point. It has been two years since first infidelity, and I fully get this is not a one size fits all.

Your ego getting bruised a little at that one? I imagine so! But another way to look at (and who really knows what he means) is that he feels "safer" with you and sharing his feelings.

Totally! Hello doormat! You're right, that I need to look at it positively. It was just two months ago he told me I would never be able to forgive him for all he is done and we need to start working on the D. Lots of affirmation has taken place since then.

I'll check out the archives. I've read through quite a few of the success stories, but I need to find more about coming out of the fog. I've also been reading more of Hero Spouse today, especially about Liminal Depression. This hit the mark: "The MLCer realizes their mistakes and regrets their actions, and yet they are unwilling or unable to resolve the problems they created. What should the spouse do? Nothing seems to work anymore. Many spouses give up as the situation seems hopeless. The MLCer may still seem to cycle, but nothing seems real. They flirt occasionally and yet still seem sullen, listless and disinterested. Why won’t they just wake up?"

I told him I was sorry he felt that way.

Great way to end the conversation. I applaud that and I believe you meant it.

Completely. Broke my heart he felt that way, about the home we built together, full of all of our memories and 99% of his belongings.

You're the best AJ!

[AJM]

Just a quick thought:

Totally! Hello doormat! You're right, that I need to look at it positively. It was just two months ago he told me I would never be able to forgive him for all he is done and we need to start working on the D. Lots of affirmation has taken place since then.

Um, no. Not doormat. If you were, he'd see right through that, as would the rest of us.

There's a fine line between being a doormat and being a caring, supportive person. Being the person that anybody would be a fool to walk away from. A very fine line. I don't think you've crossed that line at all. What you are doing is far harder than being a doormat. In my experience it is very easy to be a doormat or a punching bag. It's far harder to spend the time to be a caring person. And mean it. Be careful not to cross that line, but then again, I'm thinking you have a handle on that.

Oh, and it wouldn't break your heart if you didn't care. Trust me on that.

You are truly a gift. He's right when he says this is his problem and you are amazing.

Keep up the good work. Don't let up and don't be discouraged as things can get sideways easily. This really is all about him and he won't make a straight line toward figuring it out and he may or may not return. But that's not to say you don't care. You do and it shows. And it's a good thing no matter how things go. Step back and see that if you can.

Peace,
AJ