New member, but, have been lurking for a while; reading and learning. I figured I'd start off with with an abbreviated version of my sitch, and go from there. However, even the abbreviated version is long and may take a few days to complete...
My wife and I met on a blind date on April 30, 1988 - I was 19, she was 16; got married at 20 & 17 due to a pregnancy. During the run-up to the wedding, W's grandfather, who raised her, pulled me aside and gave me a warning. I still remember this word for word because I couldn't believe I was actually hearing it. He said (trying to avoid using real names):
Sometime in her mid to late 30's L (my W) might go crazy. It happened to M(my W's grandmother) and M's mother (my W's great grandmother). I haven't seen it in J (my W's mother), L is too young, but, L's sister T is loaded with it and she's only in her mid 20's so it's early. How you deal with it will be up to you, but, if you truly love her, try to stick it out.
Shorty after this conversation, L was told by her grandmother that; 'If you ever lose that boy, it'll be your fault'. Since I was there for that talk, I objected; and strongly. That was a hell of a thing to say to her since nobody could predict the future...
A short time later, I was in the Navy with a wife, D#1 and another child OTW (the first was unplanned by both, the second unplanned by me; turns out W wanted to have two kids quickly to get it over with). During my entire time in the Navy, I never left the US shores. The longest I was away was during the time I was in boot camp.
During my time in the Navy, we had only each other to rely on. Yes, she had a few friends, but, no family was near by. Like any other marriage - military or normal - we had ups and downs. Then, in September of '93 I was diagnosed with a semi-rare blood disorder which required treatment with high doses of steroids and ultimately a splenectomy. During this time, my W was angry with me, I guess due to my not being able to help much with the kids. But, things got better.
As my time in the Navy ended in late '94 (my medical issues forced a retirement), we moved back home and started over. We both got jobs and eventually bought a house. IN '98, W got an offer from a cousin to buy into a restaurant business. I fronted the money and we bought a carry out & delivery pizza business. At first, it went pretty well, though her not being home took it's toll on D's 1 & 2. In early '99 we got a shock when we found out W was diabetic.
We had been trying to have a 3rd baby until she got the business, but, we figured since there was no success it wasn't meant to be. The doc put her on some oral meds for the diabetes, but, didn't tell us a known side effect was increased fertility. Surprise, D #3 was born in December of '99.
The two older D's were upset frequently that they didn't get to see their mom much, 45 minutes in the morning wasn't enough. So, several times a week I started taking them down to see her during slow periods (the pizza place was about 45 minutes away from home). It also became apparent during this time, W was having trouble finding good help. So, without being asked, I pitched in where I could.
Eventually, I got a job closer to where the pizza place was and we moved closer so I could her more often. We also built a little nursery in the shop where the kids could be safe and out of the way of traffic in & out of the place. We both worked 90+ hours a week, but, we still got to see each other, be there for the girls and we had some pretty good friends.
The down fall to all of this? 9/11 happened. The area where the pizza store was is to this day, primarily a blue collar area: roofers, dry wallers, builders, mechanics, etc... The economic collapse was brutal. I lost my job three time in 10 months due to layoffs. When I finally found a job it was for $10 less an hour (I had been making $26 per hour plus OT). Eventually, we had to file bankruptcy.
In mid 2003, W had a supposed job offer for $42,000 as a restaurant manager, which to this day she has never shown me the letter. But I saw the writing on the wall for where we lived. The area where we were currently living was dying; foreclosures where increasing weekly, businesses were closing, unemployment was sky rocketing. The place I worked refused to accept out of state work, hoping the local factories would recover.
Then, in late 2003, I made the dumbest mistake of my life. I forced a move to Florida. I have kicked myself for years due to this, but, I was trying to keep my family from further financial ruin. It turns out, I was right about everything.
The company I worked for closed it's doors in 2005; the restaurant she had a job offer from closed it's doors in late 2004. Iheld the same job since mid 2004 making decent money with great benefits. Even though my feelings were right, I did a great deal of damage in this.
Something needs to be said here: for much of our marriage, my W has not had a NEED to work, nor did I make her get a job or stay home. It was always up to her. However, and I know it may appear that I'm assigning blame, but, the only time we ever had financial issues is when she actually worked! I am as much to blame in this as I didn't do anything to stop her spending. It was almost NEVER on herself, but, always on our kids.
W didn't have a great childhood. Dad left when she was 5, she says she still remembers being whipped with switches, belts, etc... After her dad left, she lived with her mom, who barely made ends meet. This worked until her mother let her sister's boyfriend move in. At this point, W moved in with her grandparents. Right after she got pregnant with D#1 she asked me if I was ever going to leave her, like her dad did. My answer was 'No'.
Back to the story...
From late 2003 to early 2006, she only worked for one week. We were still having what I would call normal married arguments, etc... Nothing major, usually over silly stuff. We always worked fine on the big issues. Two areas where I had a problem, though, proved to be major problems.
1. W and the kids kept bringing animals into the house without talking to me first. I do have allergies to pet dander, and I thought this was very rude.
2. The biggie: W allowed D#1's boyfriend (she was 18 at the time) to move in. I had a big problem with this.
in fact, after one spirited argument, I remember W telling the girls 'Daddy doesn't have to live here to pay the bills'.
So I went to see my doctor. He put me on allergy pills and an anti-depressant (my happy pill). That was another mistake. I didn't realize until BD - Day in 2011 just how much this pill made me not care...
But, I digress...
We finally got into a position where we could buy a house again in 2007, and did so. It was our only bill at the time. In late 2007, W had to have a partial hysterectomy, and during this time quit her job.
Then in 2008, we bought a 2005 F250 - which she drives most of the time. The same year, she got another job to help pay for the truck.
In early 2009 disaster struck, me that is... I was sitting at a traffic light in my '95 T-Bird when a GMC 2500 series pickup hit me from behind at 55 MPH. Amazingly, I wasn't hospitalized, but, I did sustain permanent back and neck injuries, and a bout with traumatic brain injury from it. I also ended up addicted to pain killers and muscle relaxers.
To say I didn't care about much at all would be an understatement.
After much physical therapy, I was able to get back to a more normal schedule, but, always relied on the pills (including the 'happy pill') to get me by.
During this same time, W was discussing how depressed she was, but, couldn't figure out why. We discussed the move and she assured me it had nothing to do with it. She admitted being furious about it, but, realized it was the best thing for us. I wasn’t convinced, but, I had nothing else to go on. She agreed to go to the doctor, and he suggested an anti-depressant. I would later find out that she called her best friend and told her that the doctor and I FORCED her to accept the drug. Nothing could be further from the truth.
In 2010, W was presented another opportunity to open a restaurant. Again, I fronted the money (this time I borrowed from my retirement account, which she was supposed to repay). Neither her nor her partner would allow me to help with the remodeling job needed to get the place open, due to my injuries. Once again, I was complacent and didn't care.
In mid-2011, W's best friend told me W wasn't happy, and I should talk to her. I tried. W said she didn't know why I was told that, but, she was fine. I talked to W's brother who said he hadn't heard anything, but, she has always talked to other people instead of who she is mad at. I tried again, and W said she was fine and there was no problem.
During this same time, she bought out her 'partner' due to some major disagreements. W never has been a morning person. So, I offered to go into the restaurant each morning and open it up for the breakfast crowd; she would then come relieve me at 7:15 so I could go to work. We discussed several times about menu and price changes, but, she never would implement them. The restaurant was making money, but, not at the rate it should have.
In late 2011, she met a retired (married) fire-fighter (from now on FF) who wanted to start a BBQ joint. He talked her into it in late October, but, I wasn't told then. I knew who the guy was, and neither liked nor trusted him. In early November, I was looking at a job in Texas that I was going to discuss with W. (since the forced move to Florida, I didn't even think of looking at even a different local job without talking to her first). D#2 saw it on my computer and told W 'I hope you know dad's applying for a job in Texas' - which caused WWIII.
During much of this time, D#1 was working for W and was telling me that W and FF were acting like school kids, and not like two married but not to each other people should act. In fact at one point, D#1 called her out on it. W got pissed and didn’t talk to her for almost two weeks. I said something about it to W, telling her I had heard comments from customers in the breakfast crowd who also ate there during lunch (which was true). She asked who I heard it from , saying she wanted to know who she had to be careful around. I told her she was still married and needed to not be flirting and playing around with other married men. I found out a little later that FF’s W had major issues with him hanging out with my W.
From that point on, things spiraled downhill pretty quickly. I was finally informed of the proposed partnership on Thanksgiving week. Again, from my knowledge of the guy, I was against it, but, I told her that my investment in the restaurant was for her, it was her decision to make. During Thanksgiving, she asked darn near everyone if they knew about the ‘Texas job BS’, which nobody did since I told NOBODY about it. That weekend was when Bomb #1 was dropped. I was working on my car when she came out and said she was going to the restaurant to eat, and she had to report her blood sugar numbers to her new partner. I told her I was happy that she was taking better care of herself in that regard, but, why is now so important when you seemed to not care about it when I'd ask (it had been a fight for years to get her to monitor her sugar levels). What a war that started. That night she dropped the 'I'm unhappy and have been for years bomb'.
It took a few days after the initial shock to wear in and for me to realize that something was wrong – with me. Yeah, I reacted, but it was more of a programmed response and not an emotional response as I still couldn’t feel anything, due to the anti-depressant and pain killers.
I decided right then I was going off of those drugs. I quit the pain killers cold turkey. Not smart, but, it was the only way from my point of view. During December, W stated she didn’t think it was too late to save our M, but, she didn’t yet know what was broke. I became frustrated at her because I thought she should have an idea as to why she was unhappy. Contributing to my irrationality at the time was the side effects from quitting the pain killers as well as the fact that I started weaning myself off of the anti-depressant. I wasn’t the poster boy of rationality.
Right after Bomb Drop, we were invited to a clam bake at a friend of FF’s house. I felt like I was in the twilight zone. During our entire 24 year marriage, W has HATED being around drunk people. An uncle of hers was killed by a drunk driver, and that has stuck with her. I left to go get the kids some food, and W calls me to say that I’m wound up way too tight and I need to get some Coke for my bottle of Captain Morgan I had brought along. I usually never drink around people I do not know, and I sure as heck wasn’t going to drink tonight. I called W’s brother and he was dumbfounded by what I told him. He had never known her to drink or even to want to be around drunk people.
That night as she was driving me home, she said she just felt like we got married too soon, and we’ve grown apart, and that maybe we shouldn’t have gotten married in the first place. Again, I was dumbfounded. Christmas was a complete disaster. Enough said about that.
Still not knowing what I was dealing with – the way she was acting and my own problems at the time, January thru May of 2012 were pretty volatile. Also during this time, a major feud started with FF’s W and my W. They hated each other; plain and simple. My W accused her of being a controlled female dog type person, and I had no clue yet what FF’s W had against my W.
W pretty much shut me out during the holidays, forbidding me from buying her a Christmas gift. I got really mad one night while helping her move her equipment to the new restaurant when she handed me a ceramic knife and said ‘I can’t lose this, FF gave it to me for Christmas.’ Took every ounce of energy I had to keep from blowing my top. Hurt and angry don’t even come close.
Right before the new place opened in early February, she finally sat down and had a talk with me about what was on her mind. She said she was still confused about a lot, but, for her, all the unhappiness started the day we got married. I was floored. I had no clue how anyone could be unhappy for 24 years and say NOTHING. She said she felt like she’s been screaming from the roof tops but nobody listened. As I listened I took mental notes about her complaints. She seemed to not remember a single good event in our marriage. Little did I know D#1 was listening.
Later D#1 approached me by telling me she thinks W has completely lost her mind. Yeah, there were bad times, but, there were many more good times that she remembered. I told her thanks, but, don’t eavesdrop…
I did buy her a Valentine’s Day gift, which did bring a few tears to her eyes.
One night in March, right after W got home from work, she dosed off immediately. I thought she was still awake because she was answering questions. She said ‘he thinks he’s in love with me and wants to pursue a relationship’. I asked who, and she just mumbled. I asked what she thought about it, and she said ‘I don’t know’. She then said he offered to help her get a place of her own so she could leave me. Well… I was furious and left the house. Went to a hotel, but, didn’t sleep. I was back at the house by 6am and confronted her about it. She said she must have been talking about her nephew, with whom she discussed getting a place together. Remember what I said about her not being a morning person? She was showered, dressed and gone in under 20 minutes that morning.
Later that day, I asked her nephew about the discussion. He said there had never been a conversation like that. I also knew that nephew was working for her at the restaurant and that they were drinking heavily while working. Certainly not good under any circumstances. Worse since she was taking Lexapro. The following day I decided to go have a chat with FF’s W and ask what set her off about my W. Turns out that during December, she intercepted a few text messages to FF from my W that were sexual in nature and went ballistic. I also found out, from a friend that this was FF’s 6th marriage and his W was the OW in his previous M. Some things were beginning to fall into place for me.
So, I stopped at the restaurant to talk to FF and tell him about the sleeping talk I had with W. He denied saying he loved her and wanting a relationship. He admitted to offering to help her get a place of her own, since it would make his life easier. I told him to butt out of our life as he has enough problems on his home front to deal with. I told him I was aware of his family issues and that he needed to mind his own situation before sticking his nose into someone else’s life.
Oh, did I mention that I wasn’t acting rationally during this time? Yeah, this might not have been the best tact to take. WWIV was the result. Ended up taking D#2 & D#3 to a hotel that night (D#1 had moved out) as W threatened to take D#3 and move out. I told her D#3 was old enough to make her own choice, and that we would not be home if she wanted to get her stuff and leave.
Next day we came back to the house, I woke up W and told her that her daughter wanted to spend the day with her. Also told her to let me know when she was going to be gone since I had stuff to do around the house. We sent some accusatory texts back and forth throughout the day. Told her I knew why FF’s W hated her, she denied sending anything other than jokes.
The next six weeks were unremarkable, other than me sleeping on the couch. She asked why I was doing that, and I told her I wasn’t sleeping in a bed with someone who isn’t sure about what they feel. Told her I knew I still loved her and could work through anything, but, I had to know what I was dealing with. She said she didn’t know. Yeah, I was starting to calm down during this time…
Hi Cadet, thanks for the suggestions. Subsequent posts will be shorter, but, it's nowhere near done, lol...
Originally Posted By: Cadet
Get out and GAL. DETACH.
I actually started this step in May of last year. I feel I have detached pretty well at this point. My preference would be to save/rescue/rebuild our relationship. However, I am fully prepared to go our separate ways if that's what ends up happening. We still live in the same house - separate rooms - ans I ask how her day went and discuss the kids. That's about it. There's no conversation about us, I don't follow her around the house and ask her what she's doing, etc... (though ironically, she HAS started doing this to me...)
As for GALing, I've been getting out of the house more, picking up some old hobbies and a few new ones. Just doing things I enjoy.
Looking back, I can see where the wheels of this started spinning, so it's been in motion for probably two years now, maybe longer.
Originally Posted By: Cadet
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does. Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
I think this was probably the hardest part for me. I only came across MWD's books in December of 2012. However, I had listened to Mort Fertel's 'Marriage Fitness' program and that gave me some clues. But Mort's stuff didn't provide solutions the same way Michelle's books do. I've bought and read: Divorce Busting, Divorce Remedy and Change Your Life and Everybody In It, as well as Dr. Phil's 'Relationship Rescue' - all since December 21st (another Bomb Drop day...)
Originally Posted By: Cadet
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Doing all the above. Not easy some times, but, working it the best I can.
Originally Posted By: Cadet
You are on moderation right now on the forum. SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Thanks for the tip!!
Originally Posted By: Cadet
Your W is giving you a GIFT. THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
At first I thought of it as a living hell, but, I've come to realize this is a VERY true statement.
Originally Posted By: Cadet
Knowledge is Power - Francis Bacon
Keep Posting but have patience for your posts to show up
It is - even though this has being going on for a while now, I still have MUCH to learn and thanks for the encouragement.
As then end of April 2012 rolled around, I could feel the tension rising again. Despite her claims of ‘we’re working on our relationship’, I’ve always been of the opinion actions speak louder than words and she was showing no action. Then on May 3rd, I get a phone call from my crying D#2 (20 yrs old at this point) saying she thought W and FF were having an affair. She felt betrayed in both directions here since it was her mom, and D#2 was taking care of FF’s horses for him and his W. I asked her how she knew there was an A, and she said she saw some text messages between them. I told her she had no right to look at her mother’s phone, as it was going to cause major problems.
As it was, I was already somewhat aware of certain things since on of W's employees and several of her friends did not approve of how she was handling herself and constantly let me know about it, telling me 'this is NOT the person we know'.
That night I viewed the text messages myself. I told myself it was in an effort to see if D#2 just misread the messages - but in reality it was probably so I could have my 'YOU'RE BUSTED!' moment.
I wasn’t at all prepared for what I read. While there was nothing that admitted to an active sexual relationship, the vast majority of the messages were very suggestive. FF was away at bike week and was offering to buy her all sorts of lingerie (pics included). He asked her to come join him – she said she couldn’t, but, made several sexual innuendos. He offered to pay for her to get a boob job and other stuff. There was a discussion about D#2 and her questioning her mom about stuff and FF said D#2 was ‘pissing him off’.
Now, during the times this was going on, W had not replied to a single text I had sent her. I asked FF’s W if she had heard from him, she said he told her he could talk since his phone was about to die. When I asked W why she didn’t reply to my messages, she said her phone was charging. Lies from both parties.
What I’m getting ready to say may not be my most shining moment, but, I do take full responsibility for it. Yes I was mad, hurt, etc… While viewing her text messages, I took pics of the screen of her phone with my phone. I’ve asked myself why several times and have always told myself that I was trying to find proof of an A, save my marriage, etc… I took those text messages to FF’s wife so she could see them. He was still at bike week. I told her to do with them as she saw fit, and I was going to confront my (still sleeping) W about it shortly. And confront I did…
I'm sorry about the length of this. I'm trying to keep the important stuff in here while editing out meaningless fluff. There's a lot that's happened as this has been going on for some time. What I'm trying to make sure of is that I get both of our behavioral ticks into the proper context of what has happened, as I don't feel this is all one person's fault by any stretch.
I'm certainly leaning towards an MLC as to what my wife is experiencing - for reasons I've yet gotten to in the story. However, at the current point in the timeline, I had no clue what an MLC was. I don't recall my mother going thru ANY phase like this, and my older sister was always a little unhinged...
Two days earlier, she had told a customer, in front of me, how communication and trust in a M are very important and that there’s nothing on her phone she wouldn’t be ashamed to let me she. I went back home and woke W up and asked her to see her phone. She resisted, and I reminded her of her talk with her customer and she got mad. I told her to get mad, happy or whatever she wanted, but, if she really meant what she told her customer, she wouldn’t even question letting me see her phone. She still resisted, at which time I told her that I had already seen the messages, and she turned white as a ghost. I told her she needed to get up and go to her restaurant since I had work to do around the house and she didn’t need to be there…
Later that day, FF’s W called me to tell me what happened with her – FF claimed it was nothing and they were trying to set me up. Which had the added effect of making FF’s W even more angry at him since she thought it was a childish thing to do. I went to W’s restaurant during a slow period, and asked her to talk for a minute. I told her about what FF’s W said and she looked completely stunned and said absolutely not, there was never a set up. I told her I hoped not, since the person she actually caught was D#2, since she’s the one who told me about the text messages. I said trapping an already emotionally unstable person is not hard, but, it IS reprehensible. She again denied any set up. She’s not a great actor or liar, so I did tend to believe her – but not completely. I didn’t talk to W at all that night when she came home; I just acted like I was asleep on the couch.
Back story – D#2 was involved in a head on car accident in July of 2011, in which she suffered a fractured ankle, several spinal fracture and a brain bleed (two cases of TBI in the family in two years). She then hit a tree in March of 2012 driving down a muddy road right after a heavy rain storm. She has mostly recovered from these, but, during the time all of this was going on, she was a basket case.
Again - this one is kinda long. I'm trying to keep conversations together so it's easier to read. As most of this is coming from my journal (using MS Word) I'm well ahead of the posts here.
I woke W up when I realized she was late – yet again – for work. I don’t know for sure how much she was drinking at this point, but, I do know she kept a bottle of Parrot Bay in her car for when she was at work to help her get thru the day. One thing was certain, this was not person I lived with for 24+ years.
I received a text message later in the day from her asking if I had hacked FF’s email account (I'm in the IT field, so, it's not out of the realm of possibility). It turned out that he had another GF on the side (not saying my W was one, but, this was probably the third I knew about since I met him) and FF’s wife found her and sent her an email letting her know he was married. I told her, no, I didn’t hack it, but, I did know what happened – FF had his email set up on his W’s iPad and she logged into his email and saw the messages between them and responded to one. I told her I was beyond caring about him or anything he had to do with.
When W got home that night, we discussed with D#2 the issue of looking at her mom’s phone. Then she tried to turn her attack on me. I simply asked her what she was more upset about; daughter snooping in the phone, me seeing the messages or her getting caught sending text messages she had no business sending to another married man. She then tried to deflect by telling me what a horrible person FF’s W is, and I told her I didn’t care. What happens between FF and his W is none of our business, but, you seemed to have developed an emotional attachment to him and seem willing to take on his fights.
I also told her the following:
He’s 56 years old, on his sixth marriage, and has multiple girlfriends at a time. Can you not see any problem here? Further, he hates himself for running over his 18 month old son years ago – which is understandably sad and tragic. However, he has no problem using that as an excuse for his behavior today. He drinks himself into oblivion almost nightly, drinks while at work in the restaurant and when questioned about his integrity or actions he constantly brings up the fact that he spent his life as a fire fighter helping people. It's also strange that if someone doesn't like him it’s not because of his actions, it’s because they do not know or understand him. He speaks about his wife to others like she’s a possession that he loves and cherishes, yet he tells you how evil she is and how unhappy he is because of his her.
I then asked how much of his money he sunk into opening the restaurant; she said he claims it’s at $55,000 right now (he paid from his lump sum retirement). I told her that she didn’t have the capital invested, only equipment and experience at running a restaurant. I asked her if they ever signed a business agreement, to which she just hung her head and said no. I told her that I wished that she hadn’t hated me so much that she refused to listen to reason when I implored that she pushed a written agreement. I said that I hope I’m wrong, but, if he can’t get what he wants from you, he’ll try to force you out.
She did comment that they were having trouble with NSF paychecks – FF was spending money from the business account without discussing it with her. He was supposed to handle the administrative aspect like paying all of the payroll and sales taxes while she was supposed to be handling the operating aspect of the restaurant. This was obviously not happening at this point, and I was sympathetic, but, in the process of detaching myself from the ridiculous amount of drama going on.
After this conversation, I went outside to start working on the front deck on our house. She followed and started asking me why I did what I did (looked at her phone) and asked why I lost the trust in her. I simply told her I was tired of the games. At this point, I still didn’t know what I was dealing with – MLC, menopause, the craziness her grandfather warned me about or simply a pissed off wife. Though, at this point I was thinking that six months was a little long to be holding a grudge. I finally cut to the chase and asked her what she wanted, and why she just couldn't come out and say it.
She said she didn't know what she wanted, but she was tired of the drama. I told her that even the best relationships go thru rough times, but, if she wanted a divorce she could have it because I was done with the rumors, lies and innuendo of everything regarding her and her activities. I told her it wasn't fair to our daughter(s) and I was tired of getting a 'wife report' every time I went into town (we live in a small town). This surprised her, and she responded by asking how we could afford divorce. I simply told her in Florida it was a $495 filing fee, and if we agree on everything no attorney would be needed. I also told her we each had to take a class by DCF to ensure that we knew how a divorce would impact D#3 and would have to agree on the division of property.
She then asked how she was supposed to make it since she wasn't drawing an income from the restaurant yet and it was currently losing money. I told her she should have thought about that before acting the way she did and before getting involved in an EA with another man and listening to other people – all of which who are so good at M that they've each had no less than 4 - about our relationship; and that ended our talk. We didn't really talk about anything except the kids for almost two weeks after this.
During the run-up to the wedding, W's grandfather, who raised her, pulled me aside and gave me a warning. I still remember this word for word because I couldn't believe I was actually hearing it. He said (trying to avoid using real names):
Sometime in her mid to late 30's L (my W) might go crazy.
Do you believe that she's gone crazy? It doesn't really sound like she is to me, it sounds more like a typical WAS scenario. The reason I ask is because if you think she's crazy then I'm concerned that your reaction to that is going to be to try and "fix" her, in which case you're just going to drive her farther away. Your focus needs to be on fixing yourself.
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That night as she was driving me home, she said she just felt like we got married too soon, and we’ve grown apart, and that maybe we shouldn’t have gotten married in the first place.
The WAS often rewrites history to convince themselves that leaving is the right thing to do.
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She said she was still confused about a lot, but, for her, all the unhappiness started the day we got married. I was floored. I had no clue how anyone could be unhappy for 24 years and say NOTHING.
Your job is to not react to this type of comment. It's just not true. She wasn't unhappy for 24 years, but she has convinced herself she was. All you can do is give her time and space and hope that someday the fog clears and she will remember the good in the marriage as well.
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She said she felt like she’s been screaming from the roof tops but nobody listened.
The problem is when a wife complains about things, we men often interpret it as nagging rather than a cry for help. So they complain and we shut them out. This pattern repeats for years until finally they're "done".
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I told him to butt out of our life as he has enough problems on his home front to deal with. I told him I was aware of his family issues and that he needed to mind his own situation before sticking his nose into someone else’s life.
Oh, did I mention that I wasn’t acting rationally during this time? Yeah, this might not have been the best tact to take.
I'm glad you see that now, because you're right, confronting OM is the wrong thing to do. Your W will just see it as controlling, manipulative behavior on your part. You can't stop her from seeing OM, she has to decide that for herself.
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We sent some accusatory texts back and forth throughout the day.
Don't get drawn into that. From now on all communications with your W need to be happy and fluffy.
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Told her I knew I still loved her and could work through anything, but, I had to know what I was dealing with. She said she didn’t know.
She's being honest, she really doesn't know. So quit pressuring her!!! No more R or M talks at all. No more pressure of any kind. No more arguments. No bad attitude. Be happy and upbeat around her. Get out and get a life for yourself. Work on your PMA. Get DR if you haven't already and read it and follow it. Also read and follow Sandi's 180 tips at the top of the forum.
Do you believe that she's gone crazy? It doesn't really sound like she is to me, it sounds more like a typical WAS scenario. The reason I ask is because if you think she's crazy then I'm concerned that your reaction to that is going to be to try and "fix" her, in which case you're just going to drive her farther away. Your focus needs to be on fixing yourself.
No, I do not. Keep in mind, my posts are WAY behind where we actually are since this happened over a year ago and my posts are slowly being moderated. Since this started in the summer of 2011, I’ve lost 80lbs, have picked up several hobbies to occupy my time and have become much more independent than I had been. Ironically which, she always complained I spent too much time doing so I stopped to spend more time with her…
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
The WAS often rewrites history to convince themselves that leaving is the right thing to do.
I have learned this. Doesn’t make it much easier to accept, but, I have…
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Your job is to not react to this type of comment. It's just not true. She wasn't unhappy for 24 years, but she has convinced herself she was. All you can do is give her time and space and hope that someday the fog clears and she will remember the good in the marriage as well.
I have learned this as well. Again, sometimes it’s the polar opposite of easy…
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
The problem is when a wife complains about things, we men often interpret it as nagging rather than a cry for help. So they complain and we shut them out. This pattern repeats for years until finally they're "done".
You are so correct. I’ve been reading ‘If Only Men Knew…’ by Gary Smalley and I can see where I’ve made mistakes. Of course, I could sit back and talk all day long about the methods used by W to ‘cry for help’ but that would be counterproductive – I’m trying to correct the flaws I have identified in myself; which are the only things I have control over. I used to think that if W cheated on me it’d be over. These last few years have shown me that I do have unconditional love for her, as I do believe as long as she puts forth a determined effort to fix things I could work thru anything. If she ever comes to that decision, I’ll be sure to let everyone know – we’re not there yet…
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
I'm glad you see that now, because you're right, confronting OM is the wrong thing to do. Your W will just see it as controlling, manipulative behavior on your part. You can't stop her from seeing OM, she has to decide that for herself.
I certainly wasn’t viewing it as controlling, but, I began to see how she could see it that way. A lot had happened since that day. Ultimately, she DID begin to see where he had motives other than just a business partnership.
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Don't get drawn into that. From now on all communications with your W need to be happy and fluffy.
I actually started this back in April of 2011 – I think. I stopped responding to any text messages or emails about our relationship by telling her – ‘I refuse to use this medium to discuss our problems. These conversations can wait until you’re ready to talk about ‘us’ face to face.’ The happy and fluffy part came later, lol.
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
She's being honest, she really doesn't know. So quit pressuring her!!! No more R or M talks at all. No more pressure of any kind. No more arguments. No bad attitude. Be happy and upbeat around her. Get out and get a life for yourself. Work on your PMA. Get DR if you haven't already and read it and follow it. Also read and follow Sandi's 180 tips at the top of the forum.
I’ve come to realize this – and much more. There’s a whole lot more to the story coming as soon as it gets moderated!!
June was mostly uneventful. We had D#1’s baby shower. Also, on a night we were out to eat as a family, W spent the entire time on her iPhone typing a letter to FF – which had the added benefit of infuriating me since it was supposed to be a family outing. There was no blow up, I just left the house after she went to sleep and went to the gym to work out for a few hours. I did pull up her letter and was even angrier about the contents as it read like a breakup letter, discussing how she wasn’t happy with the situation at the restaurant but wasn’t happy at home either.
I sent a copy of the letter to myself, and deleted that from her sent items folder. I showed the letter to my counselor who told me that what I read might not be what it seems like; since men and women do communicate differently (I had yet to find MWD or any other relationship self-help material).
After re-reading it several times, I began to see what my counselor was saying. There are many ways to interpret what was said in the letter as it was vague in a lot of ways. The only good that came out of this was it’s the last time I looked at her iphone. I decided after this that the only effect it had was I would get angrier and angrier at things I have no control over.
Shortly thereafter, I started listing to Mort Fertel’s Marriage Fitness CD’s – W refused to listen to anything or go to counseling of any type.
During the July 4th holiday, we went to Orlando to visit D#1 and her BF. W slept nearly the entire trip. When we got there she looked at me and said ‘It’s okay if you want to say ‘I told you so’.’ I asked about what, and she said FF tried to get her to sign over her 50% of the business to him since he was now up to $60k of his money in the business – supposedly with neither of them drawing any salary whatsoever. I looked her in the eyes and said that I might do that someday about some other subject, but, I wished I was wrong about this.
She told me that since FF had put so much personal money into the business, FF wanted her step down as an owner, and just be a manager drawing a salary. This, he told her, ’would give you an opportunity to leave your husband and get a place of your own. We could even pursue a relationship if you want.’
That was her first admission that he was trying to interfere in our marriage, yet he was still going thru counseling with his W. Never mind the fact that he was still bouncing paychecks to staff and checks to suppliers (he took over all bill paying in June, and blocked her access to any of the business accounts).
